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Post by afalcon10 on Apr 3, 2007 22:02:12 GMT -5
Remember, it took Crawford's illness and Edge's transfer to get the shoot-happy, bad-passing TO prone Summers into the starting lineup. Exactly my point. You have to understand how good of a job JT3 has done recruiting. Wright and Freeman are excellant guards.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Apr 3, 2007 22:36:32 GMT -5
the shoot-happy, bad-passing TO prone Summers Could you be any more complimentary?
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hoyaclap
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Post by hoyaclap on Apr 3, 2007 22:44:51 GMT -5
Remember, it took Crawford's illness and Edge's transfer to get the shoot-happy, bad-passing TO prone Summers into the starting lineup. Exactly my point. You have to understand how good of a job JT3 has done recruiting. Wright and Freeman are excellant guards. I don't follow your logic. and idhoya... top 5...even over X-Clan
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Apr 3, 2007 22:48:19 GMT -5
I don't see Wright or Freeman breaking the starting lineup instantly, but both should get solid playing time from the start. I wouldn't be suprised to see them playing the majority of the game against some of the early cupcakes. However, in bigger early games I think JWall and Sapp will get the majority of the PT.
The player who will I think will really lose a lot of PT will be Rivers, unless he's able to find a jump shot.
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hoyaclap
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Post by hoyaclap on Apr 3, 2007 22:59:14 GMT -5
The player who will I think will really lose a lot of PT will be Rivers, unless he's able to find a jump shot. I used to think Jeremiah was assed out next year, but I think he's fond a niche as one of out top perimeter defenders which will never go out of style. Minutes will suffer, but he was never in the game to run the offense, really, so bringing in high powered offensive players wont affect him as much as it could.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Apr 3, 2007 23:13:01 GMT -5
You might be right. Maybe he'll become the Amadou of the perimiter - the guy who we bring in when we need a stop.
Another possibility is that Rivers works his tail off this summer to get a jump shot. If he can become a threat from outside (and not just when he's taking wide-open shots), we could have one of the top backcourts in the country before long.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Apr 4, 2007 0:25:03 GMT -5
Starters and order off the bench: PG: Sapp --> Rivers/Wright SG: Wallace --> Crawford/Freeman/Wattad SF: Summers --> Ewing/Crawford/Spann/Freeman/Wattad PF: Green --> Ewing/Macklin C: Hibbert --> Ewing/Macklin
JTIII has said numerous times that it takes about a year and a half for kids to learn the system. With that said, there is little to no chance that Wright and Freeman see significant minutes to start the season. I see them on the Rivers plan. Gradually increasing minutes as the season going, but never really getting more than 10 minutes burn.
Crawford will be a big part of this team. So will Rivers. Defenders who rebound will always get time on the court.
If Green leaves: PG: Sapp --> Rivers/Wright SG: Wallace --> Crawford/Freeman/Wattad SF: Summers --> Crawford/Spann/Freeman/Wattad PF: Ewing --> Macklin/Summers C: Hibbert --> Macklin/Ewing
If Roy leaves: PG: Sapp --> Rivers/Wright SG: Wallace --> Crawford/Freeman/Wattad SF: Summers --> Ewing/Crawford/Spann/Freeman/Wattad PF: Green --> Ewing/Macklin C: Macklin --> Ewing/Green
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Post by SoCal Hoya85 on Apr 4, 2007 0:36:52 GMT -5
I think that although Chris and Austin are very good we should temper our expectations a bit. I remember when someone on this board was arguing that Vernon would be starting over Roy this year. It takes a lot to bump someone out of a starting position and Jessie has played well for us.
That being said if anyone could do it then it would be Austin. From everything I have seen the kid can flat out score.
Since we have such a logjam in the backcourt next year I wouldn't be surprised if we ran a smaller lineup with three guards, especially if Jeff leaves next year which in my opinion is probable.
My line up:
Wallace Austin Jessie Summers Roy
Bench: 1st substitution is Pat for a guard or Summers. 2nd is Vernon for Roy. 3rd is Rivers/Wright/Crawford rotation in the backcourt.
I haven't seen Wright play as much but he might have problems getting as much PT as we all think since Rivers (probably) plays better D and rebounds better, Wallace and Austin shoot better, and Jessie drives to the hoop very well and has shown a lot of control as of late. Just a thought.
Also I wonder how many minutes Tyler is going to get next year.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Apr 4, 2007 0:41:34 GMT -5
SF is 100 pct right. No way a freshman cracks the starting lineup in this system if it can be helped. Remember, it took Crawford's illness and Edge's transfer to get the shoot-happy, bad-passing TO prone Summers into the starting lineup. Incorrect. Tyler was never a serious starter, he just held the spot for Jessie for the opener since Sapp was coming off an injury. And I believe DaJuans first start was Fairfield (and he played really well) which was before Marc's transfer. Why the anti-DaJuan sentiment? Dude is one of the best small forward prospects in the country. If Jeff leaves he's going to be hugely important to our offense next year, and you know what? I'd feel pretty confident if that were so. His game has flaws like anyones, but the good far outweighs the bad. And I'll say it again--it matters little who starts on opening day. What counts is who starts and gets the most minutes heading into the post-season. And I'd definitely bet on Freeman in that capacity. I think the most likely scenario is that Jeff leaves, PE starts early in the year, but then goes back to the 6th man role where he's best as the year goes on and JW/JS/AF give us a mean 3 guard lineup. But even if Jeff and Roy both stay, I think Austin will start by years end, so you do the math there.
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ichirohoya
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Post by ichirohoya on Apr 4, 2007 1:37:04 GMT -5
1 thing is for certain: Until the night before the first game in november- there will be threads speculating on the starting lineup. If I had a dime for every piece of "inside info" on the rotation that got floated around prior to Hartford this year I wouldnt be worried about finding a job post-graduation. As I recall, I went to bed the night before the opener this past fall fully expecting to see Ewing starting at the 3.
I think its fair to say that the starting 5 next year will be the 5 guys who best demonstrate to coach that they 1) have necessary ability and 2) understand the system. If the freshmen are as talented as advertised, it sure is gonna be fun seeing them develop within our offense.
Speaking of development...
... did everyone notice a marked improvement in Mr Sapp's outside shooting between his freshmen and sophomore campaigns? Might we see similar offensive progress from lockdown defender Jeremiah Rivers? Might Sapp continue to refine his outside/FT game? That'd be somethin to see! ... Summers had his moments this year in which he was amazing. At other times, he had, um, shot selection and turnover problems. I think its safe to say that as he too gets even more comfortable with teammates and the complexities of the offense, we will see much more good Dajuan and much less of the other Dajuan. ... In the January game against Villanova, the failure of pretty much everyone to feed Roy and Jeff in the post was the topic of much angst on this board. The frequency of entry passes to posting/cutting big men increased as the season went on. As the returning players continue to get more and more confortable with one another-- and if we are blessed with the return of certain big men-- i think we will see far fewer "pass around the perimeter til someone takes a bad 3" possessions and many more productive "make the defense deal with a threat near their basket" possessions. That will also be really neat to see.
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Post by hwyman100 on Apr 4, 2007 5:47:37 GMT -5
everybody thought Macklin not Summers was the freshmen starter coming out of high school. Both Freeman and Wright will have to learn the offense. My guess is they will provide Sapp and Wallace needed rest. JTIII will be able to pound opponents with a bench as strong as North Carolina had this year. The use of the bench will be the new wrinkle next year. IF the way JTIII used Hibbert with foul trouble in the tournament is any indication of his abilities to use bench strength we will be in good hands. If all the stars line up right ---next year will be the perfect storm for the hoyas. Big difference next year will be the team will know what the big pressure is like and will not stumble early on. I hope we play Dook at home next year.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Apr 4, 2007 6:51:45 GMT -5
A couple of thoughts:
1) If no one leaves, the starting lineup remains the same. The freshman provide key depth.
2) Rivers will continue to get PT. If his shot gets more consistent, he will play a lot.
3) Don't count out Crawford. Remember that he was a starter before he got sick.
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Post by putinnat on Apr 4, 2007 7:41:29 GMT -5
My question is, even if we theoretically go 10 deep, will JTIII actually give the 9th and 10th guys any serious burn? And as a follow-up, if he does decide to go with a bigger rotation, how will it affect our style of play, i.e., number of possessions a game?
Answering my own questions, assuming Jeff leaves, I think we will end next year with a nine player rotation and see a lot more 3-guard, up tempo line-ups. Using the traditional 1-5 nomenclature to make this simple, I project that there will be 45-50 minutes to split among Rivers, Freeman, Wright and Crawford. By the end of the year, I think we will see the following minute breakdown:
5: Roy (28); Ticket (12) 4: Summers (30); Pat (10) 3: Pat (15); Austin (20); Rivers (5) 2: Bama (32); Wright (8) 1: Jessie (33); Wright (2); Rivers (5)
So Roy gets 28 (little more than this year) and Ticket gets 12 (a little more than this year) Summers gets 30 (sliding into Jeff's role) Pat gets 25 Jessie and Jon get the same amount of minutes as this year (33 and 32 respectively) Austin gets 20, Chris gets 10 and Rivers gets 10. And Tyler is the odd man out.
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Oh My!
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Post by Oh My! on Apr 4, 2007 7:53:04 GMT -5
Jessie will remain as starter, as Jack says. And Chris comes in BEHIND Jeremiah---trust me. Chris will provide a huge lift, but he will likely not start as a Freshman.
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Post by HoyaAtHeart on Apr 4, 2007 8:05:03 GMT -5
Jon Jessie Dajuan Pat Vernon
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 4, 2007 8:07:48 GMT -5
I can't see Macklin and Roy on the floor at the same time unless Mack really increases his skill set. Do you mean Macklin's offensive skills? What if, rather than Macklin increasing his skill set, Roy does? If he becomes a constant threat to hit the elbow jumper, JT3 could use him as a slightly more traditional Princeton center (as I understand it) and Macklin could play the "Roy" role. Thoughts? And for everyone expecting Crawford to have a bigger role in the rotation next year because he "started the first game" this year should realize that he got 8 minutes a game this year, when there were only three other guards on the roster. Next year, we will have more depth with Freeman and Wright added in. And if Baby Doc adds a decent jumper, he'll be a better version of Tyler--better handle, taller, better defender, equal rebounder and a better passer.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 4, 2007 8:09:21 GMT -5
Relax, Wright is not going to take over immediately. Also, have you seen him play? He is not a stereotypical point and it will take him some time to find his place in the rotation. I think we will have some early season woes like this past year as some of these guys are integrated into the offense. Kenner should be fun to watch this summer.
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Post by GULaw on Apr 4, 2007 8:49:59 GMT -5
I'm excited to see what Freeman can do for us next year. He is really the only player on the roster that can play the 2 and the 3 positions (maybe Crawford, too), which will be great in making it possible for us to play both big and small lineups. Big: Hibbert/Macklin, Ewing, Summers, Freeman, Sapp/Wallace/Wright/Rivers (with Rivers, that's a really big lineup). Small: Ewing, Summers, Freeman, and two of Sapp/Wallace/Wright/Rivers.
With the very likely loss of Green, Freeman's scoring ability will be a great boon to next year's team. And Freeman and Wright also add two guys that can create their own shot at any time, something we really lacked this season.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Apr 4, 2007 9:06:18 GMT -5
Jessie will remain as starter, as Jack says. And Chris comes in BEHIND Jeremiah---trust me. Chris will provide a huge lift, but he will likely not start as a Freshman. Totally agree. I'll say it again, starting 6'0 freshmen guards who can score get you 9-7. and a first round loss (I'm looking at you 'Nova). We have the luxury of not starting Wright and I guarantee we use it. I also think the he's not as anxious to start immediately as this board is, considering he chose Princeton twice and he knows the learning curve that entails. Plus Jeremiah is NOT some outside Amadou. The kid is a big point who already plays very good man D and handles well. Get him some mid-range confidence and he's great. Let's remember Jessie scored 6 points in last year's tournament and this year AVERAGED 12. Big jumps happen after freshman year when you've seen even a decent amount of game time. It happened for Sapp and Egerson and it will happen to Rivers. As for the rest of the lineup. Freeman will play the 3 I think and I say that not only because he's easily big enough but because for all his accolades, his open floor handle (especially against a press) is not something I'd be crazy about when our other options are Wallace, Sapp, Wright, and Rivers. And he can score from that spot. Macklin will be on the floor with Roy. The kid is a better passer than Dajuan at this moment. No three-point shot? No problem, because his work on the boards and improvement in short face-ups will be fine. This is all under the assumption Jeff in fact leaves and Roy stays.
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Madgesdiq
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Post by Madgesdiq on Apr 4, 2007 9:50:39 GMT -5
Jessie will remain as starter, as Jack says. And Chris comes in BEHIND Jeremiah---trust me. Chris will provide a huge lift, but he will likely not start as a Freshman. Totally agree. I'll say it again, starting 6'0 freshmen guards who can score get you 9-7. and a first round loss (I'm looking at you 'Nova). quote] As ridiculous as your mindnumbing defenses of Esherick. Villanova doesn't make the BET without Scottie Reynolds. I agree that Sapp will start, but by the end of the season, Wright will be an important part of the rotation, and may see the most minutes. But the idea that an otherwise 13-3 Big East team would be 9-7 if it started a freshman is silly. When he is ready he will play. Should Jonathan Edwards have played ahead of Alonzo his freshman year?
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