CO_Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,109
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Post by CO_Hoya on Mar 23, 2007 23:05:05 GMT -5
Are Clark Kellogg and the talking heads really going to make a call like that the focus of the game highlights? Yes. But at least Feinstein will now write about the Hoyas.
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Highsmith
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,490
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Post by Highsmith on Mar 23, 2007 23:05:30 GMT -5
I just wish the travel wasn't such a focus....Yahoo now has a story about the Hoya's "disputed win". It is a real shame that such a great game and win for the Hoyas and such a great moment for Jeff is being handled this way.
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 23, 2007 23:06:31 GMT -5
Exactly, highsmith. Put it to bed.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Mar 23, 2007 23:07:01 GMT -5
Yes. Because they aren't going to admit to not knowing the pivot foot rule.
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doublehoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
That's Right, I Said Minivan!
Posts: 980
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Post by doublehoya on Mar 23, 2007 23:09:04 GMT -5
Vandy's coach, from the NYT article -- a true class act:
Put this BS "controversy" to bed!
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Post by philipvu94 on Mar 23, 2007 23:12:35 GMT -5
There are really two "allegations" here. - That Green pivoted on his right foot, jumped off his left foot, [possibly came down on either foot], and committed a violation.
- That Green pivoted on his right foot, and in the course of pivoting lifted his right foot and put it back again before his jump.
I'm just about convinced that the first case isn't a violation. But I understand Clark Kellogg's position to be that the second was in fact the case. That's not a dispute of rule, is it? We all agree that if Green pivots on his right foot, and lifts it and puts it down in the course of pivoting, then it's steps. I don't find the replays as conclusive on the second issue as Clark Kellogg, but I haven't been in a studio watching them multiple times.
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Highsmith
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,490
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Post by Highsmith on Mar 23, 2007 23:12:49 GMT -5
Exactly, highsmith. Put it to bed. I wish I could, but I have very little control over CBS and the rest of the country's coverage of NCAA Sports. If this had been a Major League Baseball game, THEN I could do something!!!
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 23, 2007 23:14:19 GMT -5
You did what you could, Highsmith, that is all I can ask....
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 32,002
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 23, 2007 23:14:30 GMT -5
The factor missing in the discussion of the 'lifting' of the right foot is that Green's right leg was 'lifted' by the Vandy defender behind him.
No call was the proper call.
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WVHoyasfan
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
GREATEST HOYA EVER!!!!!
Posts: 275
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Post by WVHoyasfan on Mar 23, 2007 23:15:34 GMT -5
Guys I hate to dissagree with you but I really think he walked.When Green lost the ball he moved his lef foot so that makes his right foot the pivot foot.So when he turns around his right foot CLEARLY come off the floor.IMO it was a walk BUT im glad they did'nt call it.
It has to be devestating for Vandy to lose like that.
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Highsmith
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,490
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Post by Highsmith on Mar 23, 2007 23:16:25 GMT -5
There are really two "allegations" here. - That Green pivoted on his right foot, jumped off his left foot, [possibly came down on either foot], and committed a violation.
- That Green pivoted on his right foot, and in the course of pivoting lifted his right foot and put it back again before his jump.
I'm just about convinced that the first case isn't a violation. But I understand Clark Kellogg's position to be that the second was in fact the case. That's not a dispute of rule, is it? We all agree that if Green pivots on his right foot, and lifts it and puts it down in the course of pivoting, then it's steps. I don't find the replays as conclusive on the second issue as Clark Kellogg, but I haven't been in a studio watching them multiple times. I agree- my rules search was based on the first case. If the second case happened, then it was a travel--however, if it took Clark Kellogg an hour or so to study some grainy, blown-up, slow motion video to find a moment where Jeff may have travelled, then I don't really think the refs were going to see it. It would have been much easier to see the Vandy guys riding Jeff the whole time.
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Highsmith
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,490
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Post by Highsmith on Mar 23, 2007 23:18:45 GMT -5
I am now putting MYSELF to bed......congrats to the Hoyas and to Jeff. No matter what the newspapers, etc. have to say tomorrow, this win was EXTREMELY well deserved and hopefully the guys had their time to enjoy it. UNC is the focus now!!! GO HOYAS!
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kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by kchoya on Mar 23, 2007 23:21:48 GMT -5
Jeez, the Duke board has a three page thread on this topic. I didn't think there was an issue until I flipped to ESPNews and Gottlieb's analysis of the game consisted of "Walk, walk, travel, Georgetown's guards stink, travel, walk, travel." Then I went back to TiVo and watched the replays and I thought he did travel. Now reading the rule, I changed my mind. I don't think he did travel. The best arguments in favor of a no call come from two other boards: Duke Board: I've been chatting tonight with a couple of buddies of mine who are all D-I officials, one of whom calls Big-10 games. They are just as flabbergasted as I am how anyone who knows and understands the rules of basketball could think this is a travel. Then, we concluded that the reason must be that most people do not know and understand the rules of basketball. www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?s=6a9af2947b646dea8dc7ecdaa987da81&t=1058&page=2From officiating.com: forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?t=33035The final shot in the Hoya game. I am so tired of these announcers who don't know the rule. They kep talking about how his left foot was the pivot foot and that as soon as he lifted it, he traveled. Why won't these networks just hire an official that knows the rules? Drives me crazy. It was mainly Seth Davis.
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Post by philipvu94 on Mar 23, 2007 23:22:33 GMT -5
Well, I'll grant you it was much less of a clear-cut call than they made it out to be.
Also some background so that you understand some of the posts from Vanderbilt fans. In SEC football, we get screwed out in blatant fashion week after week. They could wallpaper the athletic offices with "Sorry for the bad call but we can't do anything about it," letters from the league office. I think there's a pretty strong case for Clark Kellogg's version of events, but this wasn't remotely in the same category as some of the football outrages.
I will argue that refs always have a predisposition toward favorites, because humans see what they expect to see -- but down the stretch Byars started getting some calls as refs caught up to his reputation. (It's also amusing that Kentucky got a lot fewer calls once refs figured out they're struggling.)
Anyway, a lot of background that doesn't really affect the game at hand -- but if you read VU posts about how everything is some great conspiracy against us, understand that it's not a knock on your team, who played a heck of a game down the stretch.
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JPM32
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 216
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Post by JPM32 on Mar 23, 2007 23:23:18 GMT -5
Who cares if he did?
Vandy only took the lead because they got a bunch of cheap calls that put them at the line anyway. Vandy blaming the refs is laughable. They shouldn't have taken the lead at the end in the first place and wouldn't have if not for the refs.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,920
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Post by Filo on Mar 23, 2007 23:26:47 GMT -5
Well, if anything, I USED TO be a big fan of Clark Kellogg. Can't believe he is actually saying this was clearly a travel based upon a blown-up slow-mo replay that might show that Green's pivot foot slightly came up off the court (not even getting into the point that Dan raised about Jeff's leg being pushed by a Vandy player). I can think of no rational explanation for them getting into this level of detail other than the fact that Clark and co. are trying to save face over their initial misunderstanding of the rules.
Gotta hand it to Packer when he said that there is no way you can make a call like that, and he was not even sure if it was a travel on the slo-mo replay.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Mar 23, 2007 23:27:11 GMT -5
The frustrating thing about this is the Zapruder-film breakdown of his pivot foot, when it is the use of the non-pivot foot that initially caused the whole "travel" argument.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 23, 2007 23:29:22 GMT -5
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CO_Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,109
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Post by CO_Hoya on Mar 23, 2007 23:32:40 GMT -5
And I though I felt dirty after the Duke board comment . . .
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Gold Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,578
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Post by Gold Hoya on Mar 23, 2007 23:40:06 GMT -5
You can sense BUM's tears as he laments the lack of Cinderellas -- who can he write a book about this year?
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