Hoyas - UConn Post-Game Discussion

[JohnnyJones]

hifigator said:

johnnyjones said:

Never have you seemed more like an outsider. The BET is a very meaningful accomplishment to the team and fans.

Also, the BET finals are on Saturday, so if we are playing that night, I would just as well not respectfully bow out!

First things first: I thought the BE tourny was the same days as ours. That extra day in and of itself, makes a huge difference.


And yes, I do understand the importance of the tourny to the fans. Heck, it was just under two years ago when we won our first one ever! It used to be jokingly called the Kentucky Big Blue Invitational.

My question was serious and I think if you look back at it, you will see my point, although as I mentioned above, the extra day is huge.

Think of it this way:

If the Conference Championship is scheduled for 2pm Sunday afternoon, and you happen to get a Thursday 11:35 am start in the big dance, then you really have 3 1/2 days of rest, before facing 2 games in 3 (or even 2 1/2) days.

If your seeding was going to be the same, it would be hard to prefer that layout over the option of finishing on a Friday for example, and then getting a full 4 days of practice and rest before leisurely traveling to your tourny site.
For the record, and I thought I made this clear in this statement:

I have been asked the same thing in the past, and always wanted to win.

I would always prefer to win the conference tourny for both the reward itself as well as the momentum heading into the big dance.


In any case, I submitted the question in the same context of which I have also been asked. I have my own opinion on the issue, as do you. They happen to be the same opinion. Yet I am an outsider for having my opinion and you are not.

Some might consider you an outsider because you are a Florida Gators fan who spends a ton of time on a Georgetown message board. Myself, I actually like the fact that you post here and often enjoy your contributions. My point was - I doubt there is a single Georgetown fan on this Board that would pass up a BET Championship just in the hope than an extra few hours of rest would make an NCAA run more possible. The way we typically have this discussion is you have to guarantee me something in the NCAAs. For example, would I take a BET Championship if you told me we would lose in the 1st round of the NCAAs (many here want a BET so bad they would say yes to that - not me). Or would you take a quarterfinal loss if you said we would make the Sweet 16, etc. The BET is a big deal. And we haven't won one since 1989 (my first BET, and I have been to 15 of 17 since). The fact that you were even raising the question (even if you didn't agree with it - you were trying to at least make the case) was what made it "seem" to me that you were an outsider.

[RockawayHoya]

bmartin said:

The key sequence of the game was when JTIII called timeout with the score 13-16 with 9 minutes left in the 1st half, Jeff out with 2 fouls and Roy needing a rest. He trusted Jeff to play with two fouls and brought him in for one possession, Roy's 3 point play, then again at 6 minutes when we had a dead ball on offense. After Roy got a short rest, Thompson subbed offense-defense with Jeff and Roy in the last few possessions of the half. Even though Roy played well on offense, Jeff made the offense run in the run to open up the halftime lead.

I agree, Bmartin, and I think it's an excellent point. Jeff and Roy have been repeatedly taken out after picking up 2 fouls in the first half, and many times it's thrown off their rhythm. I think III realized that a) he needed to take a gamble to avoid watching the other team make a run while either Roy or Jeff was out for an extended period of time like on Monday, and b) although UConn has a lot of deficiencies, rebounding isn't one of them and it was imperative he keep Jeff in the game. I thought III was especially masterful using offense for defense substitutions in the '06 Duke game, but yesterday was definitely one of his better performances in this area knowing full well he needed to keep Jeff on the floor as much as possible despite foul trouble.

I was so ticked off that CBS cut away at the under 8 timeout (at least in Northern NJ) which prevented me from seeing the celebration and Kenny Izzo's supposedly nasty rejection. It's likely (although I'd be thrilled if it wasn't) that this is the last time we'll see Sead and Kenny on the floor, and I just hope they realize how much they have contributed to this program, even if it doesn't show in the box score. Thanks for sticking it out through the bad, the good, and now the VERY good. You both deserve this as much as everyone else.

Congrats to the team and staff, who have given all of us Hoya fans so much joy so far over the past four months. The regular season title is an achievement worthy of recognition, but this team is capable of so much more than that. Time to head up to MSG and take care of business!

[MassHoya]

Hifi, winning the BET is not just about the fans. When the Hoyas have won the tournament, they have done no worse than the Elite Eight. ( 6 BET titles, one national championship, 2 runner ups, 3 regional finals). Obviously, the win helps seeding and builds momentum. Perhaps your argument has some merit in the SEC with a Sunday final, but not in Georgetown's experience.

[Cambridge]

Personally, the BET is all that matters. The NCAA is all gravy. The BET is a harder tourney to win and way more important for me.

hifigator said:

johnnyjones said:

Never have you seemed more like an outsider. The BET is a very meaningful accomplishment to the team and fans.

Also, the BET finals are on Saturday, so if we are playing that night, I would just as well not respectfully bow out!

First things first: I thought the BE tourny was the same days as ours. That extra day in and of itself, makes a huge difference.


And yes, I do understand the importance of the tourny to the fans. Heck, it was just under two years ago when we won our first one ever! It used to be jokingly called the Kentucky Big Blue Invitational.

My question was serious and I think if you look back at it, you will see my point, although as I mentioned above, the extra day is huge.

Think of it this way:

If the Conference Championship is scheduled for 2pm Sunday afternoon, and you happen to get a Thursday 11:35 am start in the big dance, then you really have 3 1/2 days of rest, before facing 2 games in 3 (or even 2 1/2) days.

If your seeding was going to be the same, it would be hard to prefer that layout over the option of finishing on a Friday for example, and then getting a full 4 days of practice and rest before leisurely traveling to your tourny site.
For the record, and I thought I made this clear in this statement:

I have been asked the same thing in the past, and always wanted to win.

I would always prefer to win the conference tourny for both the reward itself as well as the momentum heading into the big dance.


In any case, I submitted the question in the same context of which I have also been asked. I have my own opinion on the issue, as do you. They happen to be the same opinion. Yet I am an outsider for having my opinion and you are not.

[RusskyHoya]

cambridgehoya said:

Personally, the BET is all that matters. The NCAA is all gravy. The BET is a harder tourney to win and way more important for me.

Ehhh, no way I can agree with that. The challenge of winning 3 games in 3 days not withstanding, there's many great basketball teams outside the Big East. Plus, the location of the BET gives certain teams inherent advantages (Syracuse, UConn, the NY-area teams when they're good, even us).

Put another way: Syracuse winning the BET last year was impressive, but I think their early exit from the NCAA's was a better indication of their true quality. It's more of a challenge to play teams from across the nation you may not be familiar with than teams you see once, twice, or even three times a year, every year.

[Cambridge]

russkyhoya said:

cambridgehoya said:

Personally, the BET is all that matters. The NCAA is all gravy. The BET is a harder tourney to win and way more important for me.

Ehhh, no way I can agree with that. The challenge of winning 3 games in 3 days not withstanding, there's many great basketball teams outside the Big East. Plus, the location of the BET gives certain teams inherent advantages (Syracuse, UConn, the NY-area teams when they're good, even us).

Put another way: Syracuse winning the BET last year was impressive, but I think their early exit from the NCAA's was a better indication of their true quality. It's more of a challenge to play teams from across the nation you may not be familiar with than teams you see once, twice, or even three times a year, every year.

I just plain disagree with this statement. It's just way too hard to win four games in four days...as much as it pains me, kudos to the cuse. There is nothing that matters more than reclaiming a title that has eluded us for far too long. Short of winning the entire NCAA Title, there is nothing I wouldn't sacrifice to get a BET. Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final 4...trade em for a BET.

[nebraskahoya]

danmcq said:

On to the BET - a 3 game winning streak in MSG would be nice.

Not to nitpick a mod or anything, especially on my first post, but winning the BET would actually bring the Hoya MSG win streak to 4 (see the 72-48 drubbing of St. John's earlier this year).

Next step in restoring the order: a BET title.

Go Hoyas!

[RusskyHoya]

cambridgehoya said:

I just plain disagree with this statement. It's just way too hard to win four games in four days...as much as it pains me, kudos to the cuse. There is nothing that matters more than reclaiming a title that has eluded us for far too long. Short of winning the entire NCAA Title, there is nothing I wouldn't sacrifice to get a BET. Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final 4...trade em for a BET.

Well, often it's three games in three days, but I think there's a variety of other factors that make the NCAA's more challenging.

Having said that, winning the BET is a championship, anything in the NCAAs other than winning the whole thing is not. So from that perspective, having a title to your credit is a big big plus, when compared to merely reacing another round of a tournament.

Personally, I look at it this way: Winning the BET makes you #1 out of 12. Reacing the Final Four makes you #1 out of 16. So I'd say Final Four and BET are roughly similar achievements in terms of desirability.

One thing that's also hard to ignore is the fact of media coverage: the BET lasts 4 days, the NCAA lasts weeks. The positive and national attention a program gets from NCAA success pretty clearly exceeds that of the BET, in my opinion.

[StPetersburgHoya (Inactive)]

You guys have to be joking. Winning the Big East Tournament and then losing early in the NCAAs completely invalidates your season and makes the coaching staff look unable to win the big game - see Pittsburg, University of.

[Cambridge]

stpetersburghoya said:

You guys have to be joking. Winning the Big East Tournament and then losing early in the NCAAs completely invalidates your season and makes the coaching staff look unable to win the big game - see Pittsburg, University of.

Winning a BET would complete the season. Everything after that would be cream. I don't view basketball nationally, I see it primarily from the Big East perspective, therefore the BET is THE event of the year.

As far as national prominence goes, outside of the NCAA, there is no more nationally recognized, nationally covered, nationally revered college basketball tournament than the BET.

[RusskyHoya]

cambridgehoya said:

Winning a BET would complete the season. Everything after that would be cream. I don't view basketball nationally, I see it primarily from the Big East perspective, therefore the BET is THE event of the year.

Well, that's where we differ, then. I tend to view everything from a national, if not international, perspective. I want Georgetown to be a nationally recognized and established program, capable of recruiting anywhere inside and outside the country. That requires more than just Big East success.

[EasyEd]

Winning the BE is crap compared to getting to the Final Four.

[Coast2CoastHoya]

I just got back from Alumni Escape, which was filled with Hoyas who went to the game, so I'm still very much on cloud 9. My Five Points:

(1) Congratulations Hoyas, Coaches, Staff, and Fans on an INCREDIBLE Big East 13-3 season! Your hard work, dedication, intelligence, poise, and class continue to pay off -- and will take you deep into March. To top it off with a drubbing of the hated Huskies on Senior Day, winning comfortably and in style, was the cherry on top. Hoyas, you have restored my faith in our ability to play hard, smart basketball. Coach, you have shown us what top-notch basketball leadership looks like. Staff, you have proved that expecting us to go to the NCAAs every year IS something we can and should expect by dint of your support for the team and III's vision. Fans, you've made the Phone Booth a true home court!! I'm so excited to have been even a small part of this true TEAM effort from everyone involved.

(2) I want the Big East Championship AND the Final Four. Woooooot! I don't even want to talk about what I'd give up a BE Champtionship for; I don't think it works that way anyway. My NCAA goals are the same as III's: baby steps. That means the Elite 8 and the Final Four would be gravy (not that a Sweet 16 run would bum me out too much, but I think we're capable of getting at least to the second weekend).

(3) Big ups to the students who stayed on campus to come to the game!! Way to show your pride for our Hoyas!!

(4) I feel the need to thank Clyde's for the many mimosas served to the A-Team over the course of the season, and for putting up with us after the marquette game. Thanks Clyde's -- you can do your part next season by catering to the Hoyas better and becoming our home bar!

(5) Thank you in particular to the Senior members of Hoya Blue, the cheerleaders, and the band. Those of us that know, know that you're the fans who truly sacrifice your time and resources to cheer on the Blue & Grey, win or lose, and you do it for nothing more than the love of the team and the school -- and you did a GREAT job this year. As someone who went through it in college and now watches from the YA, you are truly a credit to our institution, and come May I'll be proud to call you fellow Alumni and Alumnae.

To quote Buffalo: HOYA freakin' SAXA. Time for the greatest conference tourney in the land to begin.

[theexorcist]

Woohoo!

My flight to Asia left at 12:20, so I had no idea until now who just won. I don't know how we did it, I just know we did it. I'll walk along the street at least one day today with a III shirt and see how much of a reception I get.

[SFHoya99]

Someone mentioned it earlier, but aside from Roy's dominance early, the Player of the Game for the last 30 minutes has to be Patrick Ewing. He stuck a couple of threes when no one else was, played good D, and made entry passes.

How is it that he is the only one on the team who knows how effectively a fake before the actual entry pass is? His last one was a thing of beauty -- he didn't fake an entry pass, instead he started to dribble to the top of the key and faked a pass there. Not only did his defender buy it, but so did Roy's. When the pass came into Roy, the defender was in place as if Roy was going to move closer to the top of the key. He wasn't, of course, and top the heck out of the ball.

[Big Dog]

russkyhoya said:

cambridgehoya said:

Winning a BET would complete the season. Everything after that would be cream. I don't view basketball nationally, I see it primarily from the Big East perspective, therefore the BET is THE event of the year.

Well, that's where we differ, then. I tend to view everything from a national, if not international, perspective. I want Georgetown to be a nationally recognized and established program, capable of recruiting anywhere inside and outside the country. That requires more than just Big East success.

I can't believe there are still people who adhere to this line of thinking that winning some silly conference tournament where no one remembers the winner the next season except the team who won it is better than getting to the Sweet Sixteen in the NCAAs.

Its absolutely insane, and if I hadn't argued this point at length last year (only to be proven right when Syracuse bombed out in the tourney while we were celebrated nationally for four more days until we played Florida) I'd go into it further.

Suffice it to say you enjoy the BET win for about 24 hours until the NCAA bracket comes out. Then everyone stops caring about the BET and looks at the national picture, which is all that matters in terms of recruiting, fan excitement, national recognitiion, media focus, etc.

[mapei]

I would rather win the Big East than lose in the Sweet 16, but I would rather make the Final 4 than win the Big East. Not sure about Big East vs. Final 8 . . .

[Big Dog]

If anything else, consider that when you lose early in the NCAAs, especially if its an upset, you get NO CHANCE at redemption for an entire season.

If we lose Thursday, we get to come right back a week later and make everybody forget about it.

That alone is a huge difference. I want us to win this weekend, but its a prelude to the real deal with the next week.

[RDF]

Guys, this is GEORGETOWN.

The BET and NCAA is what you come to play for-and they BOTH MATTER--and you don't think about losing-you only think about WINNING THEM BOTH!

'nuff said.

[HoyaSinceBirth]

this whole thing is stupid why does one have to be more important than the other. they both matter a lot.