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Post by ExcitableBoy on Feb 6, 2007 10:45:01 GMT -5
I don't mean to get be negative, because I love this Georgetown team. But I worry about its ability to come from behind. Specifically I worry about the ability for someone to score when it is absolutely necessary. Hopefully, as this team grows someone can take on that role. While we don't have someONE who has the ability to score, we have a TEAM that creates opportunities for any given player to score on any given posession. Think about DO's 3 pointer against Florida. Sure, I wouldn't consider DO the go-to-guy on last year's team but he got a great look at an open three. What's wrong with that? Why do we have to have one guy who everyone in the building knows is going to get and shoot the ball? Even if we only had a few seconds, we have the option of getting it to Roy down low (only the highest percentage shot in the nation), to Jeff inside or outside, to Sapp on the perimeter, or to Wallace anywhere in the same zip code as the basket. In fact, this sounds like a pretty difficult quadrafecta to really "clamp down on" defensively.
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Post by RaleighHoya on Feb 6, 2007 11:54:40 GMT -5
When I say this team lacks a go to guy, it has nothing to do with the end of the game. It just seesm that when things start going bad, we do not have one guy we can turn to consistenly. The closest thing we have IMO is Roy, just because of his size advantage.
I would love to see Summers become that guy because Green seems to be reluctant in that role (minus the St. john's game). Sweetney was exactly that guy, although he did not have the talent around him later in his career.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2007 12:51:55 GMT -5
When I say this team lacks a go to guy, it has nothing to do with the end of the game. It just seesm that when things start going bad, we do not have one guy we can turn to consistenly. The closest thing we have IMO is Roy, just because of his size advantage. I would love to see Summers become that guy because Green seems to be reluctant in that role (minus the St. john's game). Sweetney was exactly that guy, although he did not have the talent around him later in his career. I think it is Jeff, rather than Roy (using your take on "go to guy"). Look at their respective bodies of work over their three years on The Hilltop. There are plenty of games where I can remember saying "thank god Green's keeping them in it." Not so many for Roy. It all started with Green singlehandedly keeping GU in the game at Illinois two seasons ago.
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Post by guhoyasfan36 on Feb 6, 2007 13:15:25 GMT -5
When I think of a "go to guy", I always think of someone who Mr. Clutch...hit the big shots when needed. Right now I think like others have said Jessie is trying to step up and be this guy. Although he may not be this guy, he gets and E for effort. J Dub, on the other hand I could see being this guy. He's starting to want the shots more often and is definately money in the bank. If we ever start coming down to the close games, I see us getting the ball to Wallace; if they try single coverage he can drive or look for a shot, if they double when can always back cut to the hoop or pop out 'cause someones gotta be open. Just what I think will happen. Of course I'ld rather just see us keep blowing people out and letting Sead play mopup dagger 3s.
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CO_Hoya
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Post by CO_Hoya on Feb 6, 2007 13:47:54 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, when was the last time G'town had a go-to player? Not a Braswell-type ("Give me the rock, I'll be the one to miss it"), but someone who you'd feel confident taking the last shot?
Cook? It seemed like he was better at finding someone rather than making it himself. Also blew quite a few (e.g. UConn '05 BET; 'Cuse '06 BET), but I guess that happens when you're the man Bethel/Hall? Braswell disciples. Sweetney? Possibly, but he couldn't create his own shot, he depended upon others.
I'd hate to think you'd have to go back to Iverson/Page. And Nat Burton doesn't count.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 6, 2007 13:51:40 GMT -5
Anthony Perry?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 6, 2007 14:00:30 GMT -5
Keep in mind that the average guard, asked to create with less than ten seconds left, is probably going to fail over 50% of the time. I don't think most offenses would effectively shoot over 50% with a 10 second shot clock.
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CO_Hoya
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Post by CO_Hoya on Feb 6, 2007 14:04:48 GMT -5
Keep in mind that the average guard, asked to create with less than ten seconds left, is probably going to fail over 50% of the time. I don't think most offenses would effectively shoot over 50% with a 10 second shot clock. Well sure, but my standard (perhaps way too high) is Charles Smith. He knew he was going to take, and make, the last shot. So did everyone else in the building, including Billy Packer. And if he did miss, you didn't feel like you got cheated, because he was always the best option.
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Post by RaleighHoya on Feb 6, 2007 14:53:14 GMT -5
Sweetney was clearly a go to player. If the guards got him the ball he could muscle down and make a shot. Go to guys can't make EVERY shot, and Sweetney had nobody on those teams to help him really.
As for Jeff being a go to guy, I was talking more about this year. It seems when we need a big basket to stop a run, we look to Roy (assuming JT3 has not parked him on the bench for no reason) not because he is better, only because he is so much bigger than everyone he usually gets off a good shot.
Jeff certainly has the talent, and he showed he can do it against St. Johns, just haven't seen that instinct from him all year.
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HealyHoya
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Post by HealyHoya on Feb 6, 2007 15:03:49 GMT -5
I find it interesting that in a discussion about clutch, go-to guys, we focus exclusively on guards. Ewing was our go-to guy. Ralph Sampson was a go-to guy. Nowitzki is a go-to guy. Moses Malone. Shaq, at times. Charles Barkley. Bill Russell. Wilt. Elton Brand. Etc.
Now, sure, some of these guys played with exceptional PG's who could deliver the ball to them in scoring position but quick, Dominic James-type point guards aren't the only way to go here. These match-ups work both ways. No, we don't have that type of guard (with a tip of the cap to the emergent Jessie Sapp). But who matches up well defensively against a 6'8" power forward who can hit the three, post up, put the ball on the floor and hit the open shooter? Nichols at 'Cuse? Kendall for Pitt?
Same question with Hibbs...
I'd rather have Jeff with the ball in the high post in the triple threat postion with 10 seconds remaining, Wallace, Sapp and Summers fanned around the perimeter and Hibbs on the baseline ready to crash the boards then Scottie Reynolds or Dominic James (were they on my team) with the ball 40-feet from the basket.
I am looking at this through Hoya-colored glasses but I like where we are.
PS. To those referencing Jimmy Chitwood, as I recall, he didn't create his shot but rather hit a J at the end of a called play with time runnng out. And, I mean, Wallace from Harvest, Alabama can't be that far from the modern day Jimmy.
Hoya Saxa
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 6, 2007 15:18:18 GMT -5
Mike almost never got the ball late in the game with no time. They'd double team him before he got the ball.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2007 15:32:19 GMT -5
I'm with Healy. The Chitwood references have to stop. JC didn't beat his man off the dribble, didn't break his ankles, didn't cross him over, and so on.
Coach Dale called "Picket Fences," JC got a good look off the screen, and he buried it. Against superior competition, he's a marksman... plain and simple.
We don't need a Jimmy Chitwood, because we've got spot-up shooters already. What we NEED is a Butch McCrae (in the motion offense) to beat his man off the dribble and take it to the rack, where he can dish to Neon Bo... er... Roy for the easy dunk if the D collapses on him.
Just don't bull Lavada McCrae... she will eat you alive.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Feb 6, 2007 15:37:07 GMT -5
My definition of a "go to guy" is someone who wants to take the shot to win the game, be it soccer or lacrosse or basketball or hockey. If there's a last-second shot for Texas, it's going to Durant (and if it doesn't, it's a heck of a fake).
If you're at the end of the game, do you want the chance of being the goat or the hero, with little chance in between? Or do you want to pass it to someone else because your shot isn't perfect?
Jimmy Chitwood would want the play for him - he wouldn't want to walk the ball up the court, but once he got the ball, he would look to shoot rather than to pass. Our system does not encourage this style of play. I don't know if that's a good thing or not.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 6, 2007 15:50:20 GMT -5
I'm with Healy. The Chitwood references have to stop. JC didn't beat his man off the dribble, didn't break his ankles, didn't cross him over, and so on. Coach Dale called "Picket Fences," JC got a good look off the screen, and he buried it. Against superior competition, he's a marksman... plain and simple. We don't need a Jimmy Chitwood, because we've got spot-up shooters already. What we NEED is a Butch McCrae (in the motion offense) to beat his man off the dribble and take it to the rack, where he can dish to Neon Bo... er... Roy for the easy dunk if the D collapses on him. Just don't bull Edited Lavada McCrae... she will eat you alive. [nodak] With the pass to Hibbert for the dunk that he didn't miss, ooohhh, ohhh. [/nodak]
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Feb 6, 2007 16:00:25 GMT -5
Off the top of my head, here's a few examples of last-second type shots GU has converted in recent years: Nat Burton's layup vs. Arkansas in the NCAA's Ashanti Cook's full court drive/dish to Hibbert against Notre Dame in 05 Drew Hall's full court drive/dish to Wesley Wilson againt PC in the BET Ashanti Cook's drive/dish to Courtland against St. John's in 04 Gerald Riley's coast-to-coast bucket vs. 6 SHU Pirates Kevin Braswell's GW three at South Carolina Tony Bethel's overtime-forcing three in the Esherick rant game What stands out to me about all the successful last-second plays we've "run" over the past 6-7 years is how many of them aren't really "plays" as much as just improv. The only one of the above that was a set play was the Cook to Freeman dunk. A few weeks later, I was in Miami watching the Hoyas play the Canes...and the game is tied and we've got the final possession. Son of a Braswell if we don't try to run the same freakin' play, and Miami had it read about a mile away. At least part of the question (historically anyways) should be: Our lack of a Decent End-Game Play.... I've always thought something that HealyHoya alludes to above, that these kinds of discussions tend towards "why don't we have a penetrating/creating point guard?" But I think we're conditioned that way to some extent by "Ummmm...why don't you take the ball and do something with it, Kevin?" Another way to think of this discussion is whether we have a guy that can take over a game in the clutch. Sweetney certainly could. Hibbert displays that tendency from time to time (not a close game, but I watched him destroy Luke Harangody and Notre Dame in the second half of that game again last night). Jeff Green took over the Pitt game and made Aaron Gray look foolish last season. I tend to agree with the line of thinking in this thread however that prefers having up to five viable OPTIONS in a close-game situation rather than one (even supremely talented) alpha-dog. I think last season was a bumper crop in that regard w/ Wallace, Cook, Owens, Bowman, and Green. This year is something of an unknown commodity as of yet--is Sapp a creator? Is Hibbert a viable end-game last-possession option? Does Jeff feel like it? If Wallace hit a 40-footer to win a game, would people still chastise him for not being aggressive enough going to the hoop? And Burton absolutely counts. It just took John Thompson/Craig Esherick 3.9 seasons to realize it.
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YB
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Post by YB on Feb 6, 2007 16:31:59 GMT -5
I'd take JW. Heady player, calm under fire, will get the job done or get it to who needs it. Roy or Jeff are me second choices.
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hoyasexy
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Post by hoyasexy on Feb 6, 2007 16:41:55 GMT -5
If we're going to create the perfect go-to guy out of a fictional character, "then you gotta bring up a guy named Lamar Mundane."
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