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Post by hoya137 on Jan 9, 2007 0:23:31 GMT -5
agree, hoyaboy1. III needs to coach 'em up to get Hibbert some open touches. I've noticed a few plays we run off inbounds plays where the guard catches on the wing and knows to quickly fire in to Hibbert -- we've had some success there.
But in the normal flow of the offense, it seems our entry into the post is always just a straight post pass where Hibbert is already either being fronted or denied...seems like we need more plays where we run reversals specifically to get Hibbert touches.
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Post by HoyaAtHeart on Jan 9, 2007 0:26:25 GMT -5
/\ if it weren't for Reynolds we win this game by 20. Because Nardi and Sumpter took the night off. Give credit where its due....he had some costly turnovers but thats what happens when you play basketball. The clutch buckets he put in and his fearlessness going to the cup tonight is more than what our guards gave.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by guru on Jan 9, 2007 0:49:51 GMT -5
/\ if it weren't for Reynolds we win this game by 20. Because Nardi and Sumpter took the night off. Give credit where its due....he had some costly turnovers but thats what happens when you play basketball. The clutch buckets he put in and his fearlessness going to the cup tonight is more than what our guards gave. I disagree, and I'm very glad we didn't get Reynolds. He's a selfish and not very smart player and - as I stated before - Chris Wright is already much better than him. Reynolds would help us break the press, though. I admit that. And then he'd jack up an ill-advised three or drive recklessly down the lane.
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sweetness
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by sweetness on Jan 9, 2007 0:58:29 GMT -5
Scottie Reynolds was a key factor in beating us tonight -- he outplayed our guards.
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tal1286
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Post by tal1286 on Jan 9, 2007 1:06:08 GMT -5
On the Bright side, the fans were incredible tonight, in my opinion.
That's about it though. The minute Nova took the lead, I knew they were going to win, not because we didn't have a chance and we certainly should have been able to pull it out but there's something about our team that makes us fold like a piece of paper whenever we get hit with the slightest bit of pressure. It's happened against Oregon, Duke, especially ODU, and now Nova and it's incredibly frustrating.
Then again, maybe fold is the wrong word...whatever, you guys get it. In my opinion, that's coaching, as is an inability to effectively break a press. What a frustrating game. What I wouldn't give to have a game-changing guard this year.
I guess next year will be the moment of truth for the Princeton Offense when we get some truly incredible guards in this system. Will it work or not? I dunno.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Jan 9, 2007 1:16:08 GMT -5
Guru,
I agree with you that Wright is a better player than Reynolds. But don't get it twisted, he outplayed our guards tonight by a wide margin. That jumper he hit in the lane was a clutch one. It put them back up by three, it was on the road and it took creativity to create that shot.
We needed that from out guards tonight
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 9, 2007 1:30:36 GMT -5
In a close game, anything could have won it for us...
...Heck, we got outrebounded! I know Roy and Jeff didn't play their usual number of minutes, but it seems like Nova always kills us on the boards and that is unacceptable. We merely grab a few more boards and we win this one... And the same is true of turnovers, in handling the press, in making FTs, etc.
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jacko
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GET SOME
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Post by jacko on Jan 9, 2007 3:14:15 GMT -5
Don't know if anyone mentioned this... Nova played very physical defense, and for as many fouls as were called in this game, it turned into a circus at times because the refs could have tightened it up significantly more. I'm not complaining about the refs - it's just that I think they set a precedent of physicality for this game that favored Nova strongly (read: we play too soft for the BE??? discuss...).
Also, I agree that any one thing could have swayed this in our favor. I like to highlight FTs because of how controllable (in theory) they are. ARGH.
Bottom line: I think (or maybe just hope) this loss will change us for the rest of the season. If nothing else, we could learn a lesson about body language/intensity. I think that's what allowed Nova to play above their level today.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jan 9, 2007 3:46:39 GMT -5
How the BLEEP does III not mention the PATHETIC way that his team handled the pressure defense and that he made zero adjustments? The turnovers I saw weren't from "trying to force feed Roy"--I saw kids afraid to attack pressure, throwing the ball up the sideline and making lazy, one handed passes or half assed passes that were looped, and it's "trying to force it to Roy". WHAT?
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harlemhoya
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Post by harlemhoya on Jan 9, 2007 3:47:52 GMT -5
this was not a great press
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Highsmith
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Post by Highsmith on Jan 9, 2007 6:46:42 GMT -5
this was not a great press That's what makes our complete inability to deal with it so troublesome.
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Jan 9, 2007 6:59:12 GMT -5
i thought summers and macklin played very well. enough positives........
we were completely out played, out hustled, and most of all out coached. i told my wife the first 3 minutes of the game that roy was useless against the style nova was playing. vernon should have played more minutes and roy should have spelled him, not the other way around. nova ran the same defense the entire game and we had zero adjustments. the only time we attacked the press and score was an accident (off a loose ball). the entire game was........take 8-10 seconds (a couple times more than 10 seconds) to cross halfcourt, spend another 20 seconds passing around the perimeter, and eventually settling for a jumper at the end of the clock or turning it over. IMO, this lack of preparation and lack of in game adjustments falls mostly on the coaches.
anyone who thinks green and hibbert are going to be anything but servicable bench nba players are kidding themselves. both were completely useless. with roy in, we basically played 4 on 5 offensively. the only thing he contributed was missed ft's. we played much better with jeff on the pine the better part of the first half. his forced passes in the second half were killers. their lack of effort on the boards hurt us also.
the backcourt was horrible to say the least. some of the passes made by our main ball handlers (sapp, wallace, rivers, and green) would be considered bad on the junior high level. wallace missing the 1-1 late was a killer also. as well as the backcourt played at times this season, it was completely exposed last night.
i give a lot of credit to jay wright for having his team prepared and the nova players for playing all out for 40 minutes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2007 7:53:09 GMT -5
this was not a great press I just checked the board this morning and intended to post the same thing. I am in my early 60s and I remember when Wooden used this type of trapping pressure at UCLA. It worked for a couple of years until other teams figured it out. You are absolutely correct. You have to attack it. Look, you have three Villanova players trying to trap two guards. That leaves 3 offensive players against two in the front court. However, last night, when the ball was thrown to the front court the player just sat there and let Villanova form its defense. You just don't do that. The second you get the ball in the front court, you go for the basket. Unfortunately, Roy (it was usually he), just sat there and waited. I also thought that players were hesitent to take the 3 in the second half. I still believe in this team, but it has a way to go. Just my thoughts, Jerry
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vagrant
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Post by vagrant on Jan 9, 2007 9:40:54 GMT -5
The press was effective because it did exactly what Wright wanted it to do: Slow the Princeton and not necessarily cause a turnover. Wright knew that our Princeton takes time to develop usually scoring in the third or fourth decade of the time clock. After 2 or 3 backdoor cuts clear out a side and we can find an open 3 point look. Or when the fourth cutter beats his man. In the ND game [aside from their weakness inside due to personnel &/or foul trouble] we had our most success feeding Roy when we softened up the inside with a few cutters continuing through. But the clear outs, inside or outside, take time. So shorten the clock and our Offensive efficiency destroyed. He also knew that given pressure and forced to act at an uncharacteristic speed we would cause our own turnovers. The Nova press did exactly what it was supposed to do.
vagrant
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jan 9, 2007 9:48:58 GMT -5
You know who we could have used last night? Mike Sweetney. That guy was a human vacuum--one of Esherick's press breaks involved running Sweetney to the halfcourt line and lobbing something in his direction...and no matter how awful the pass (and trust me, our guards back then threw some awful ones), he'd suck it in out of the air and on we went. Heck, guy would sometimes break the press himself off the dribble as the MCI Center often recoiled in near-horror.
I note this only to point out that this was the example I used to successfully get a bunch of current GU students to be nostalgic for the Esherick era last night. ;D
Further suggestion for press breaking--Dajuan Summers should be equipped with one of those halos from FOX's NHL coverage so he might be more readily noticable. Perhaps it's because I tend to have a good view straight down the sideline from where I sit, but we missed that sideline pass to Summers to break the press about eleventy billion times tonight. Additionally, it would look cool to see him leave that trail when he drives to the hoop or shoots a three*.
(*Except for that last one)
This was a rather crazy game, no? Between the foul-a-minute and turnover-a-minute pace, the largest number of negative fan reactions to referee decision I've ever seen at a home game (by both team's fans mind you--the guys behind the Nova bench were hysterical), the collapse at the end, and the overall intensity of play, it was like a Battledome in the Verizon Center. Like if Duke was a GU crowd on ecstasy, last night was Red Bull, bad pot brownies, and anabolic steroids.
I suppose it was an appropriate game for hardhats.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2007 9:49:18 GMT -5
Hi Vagrant!
I respectfully disagree. I still have a tape of the Princeton Georgetown NCAA game from 1989. Georgetown started out with a similar trapping press and Princeton shredded it and the Hoyas had to abandon it. Princeton simply passed over it and had a 3 on 2 in the front court and scored on it. I actually watched it for a while this morning because I was curious. JTIII needs to watch it as well along with the rest of the team (in my humble opinion).
Jerry
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vagrant
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Post by vagrant on Jan 9, 2007 10:02:15 GMT -5
Appreciate your comments, and respect your knowledge, but JT II's press was a little more stifling than Nova's. If you remember [see GU v. Ky in the 1984 semi] II started his press a little soft and then when you thought you had it beat, he would screw on the pressure, see Kyle Macy's comments post the above ref. game. I think last night's press was a little softer, a little loser, more space between ballhandler/defender. A stifling press either causes the TO or is broken, a soft press slows you down, does not cause a TO, but can recover much quicker when beaten. Just my opinion. You may be right, or not.
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hoyanick
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Post by hoyanick on Jan 9, 2007 10:18:43 GMT -5
First Georgetown loss in about a month. First time we didn't win by a double-digit margin in about a month. First time that the HoyaTalk board is absolutely brimming with new threads and posts in about a month...
Seriously, I knew when I logged in that all the thumbs-down graphics, "JTIII taking us back a hundred years" posts, and bench Roy, insert Ticket sentiments would exacerbate the Miller Light hangover caused by drinking with a Verizon Center straw. This board needs to be medicated for bipolar disorder. And please save the "this is a internet talkboard, we have the inalienable right to free speech and being irrational" speeches. Everyone here should realize how ridiculous have threads dated post January 8th, circa 10pm that are extremely negative rub up against posts made in the 48 hours previous to that which make claims of hoya-perfection...
ANYWAYS. We all saw the problem last night. We run an offense that relies on 20-25 seconds of precise passing in order to find the best shot. Their press cut that time down to 10-15 seconds, and thus we saw alot of fall-away jumpers and hurried passes that resulted in TOs. I don't agree that our press-break was ineffective - most of the TOs by my recollection happened in the hurried half-court set AFTER we broke the press (with exceptions of course - I'm thinking that a particular TO by Jeff in the backcourt really changed momentum). So while the guards did a good job methodically breaking the press, our offense can't afford to spend 8-9 seconds in the backcourt. We need to tinker with that.
Also, JTIII must have very little confidence in Tyler's ballhandling abilities. I was so suprised to see Jeremiah in the game for defensive purposes in the last minutes with Jessie in foul-trouble.
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Post by dajuan on Jan 9, 2007 10:44:17 GMT -5
Good point about Tyler "Bam Bam" Crawford.
I mean, at this point Jeremiah Rivers looks wholly unprepared to play basketball at this level. Maybe he's tough on defense (not that I've seen) but Bam Bam is tough, he's long and he mixes it up on defense. Plus, he doesn't throw lazy cross-court passes like Jeremiah does. I still like this team very much, but I like it a whole lot better with Crawford getting significant minutes and Rivers on the bench next to Tay Spann.
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mapei
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Post by mapei on Jan 9, 2007 10:48:45 GMT -5
Jeremiah is scary. Not ready for prime time.
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