Duke 61 - Hoyas 52 Post-Game Discussion

[Filo]

sirsaxa said:

I get a kick out of the panicky comments about the "Princeton Offense" and how we desperately need to dump it. Is this what we are going to read after every loss for JT3's entire tenure at GU?

"It slows the game down"

"It is designed for less athletic teams"

"No top ranked kids will want to play it"

This is the same offense that dropped 87 on Duke back in January.
It is the same offense that took us to the Sweet Sixteen
It is the same offense that nearly knocked off eventual National Champion Florida in the tourney.
It is the same offense that convinced McDonald's AA Vernon Macklin to choose GU, along with top talent DaJuan Summers and Jermiah Rivers.
It is the same offense that top 20 guards Austin Freeman and CHris Wright signed up for, and Jason Clark and Chris Braswell.

But it isn't easy. It takes time to build understanding and cohesion.

It was disappointing to lose to Duke in Durham, but hardly a disgrace or a surprise. It seems to be in vogue now to knock Duke, but no program has been more successful over the last 20 years or so. Losing to them on their home court -- well known as one of the toughest places to win -- is no disgrace.

We wanted a tougher pre-season schedule, we got it, and the team has lost 3 games.

Thank goodness the coaching staff is running things around here and not some of the members of this board.

The staff will continue to work with this team and we'll see enormous progress over the next month or two.

I agree with yout points, SirSaxa. I would add, though --

Although it is surely not a disgrace or surprise to lose to Duke at home, it was very disappointing / frustrating to do so this year, while they are struggling and looking rather mediocre. You are right, it is a tremendous program, and I don't see them being this beatable at home any time soon. This was a great opportunity, which was blown by a dismal second half of basketball.

[Nevada Hoya]

I still haven't seen the Hoyas play this year, and I don't know the problem. So all of my comments are from looking at this board. It seems as if the Prince-town offense is complex and with new athletes and a new year, it takes a while for the players to get the precision necessary to pull it off. I am not sure why Jeff and Roy are not playing at a higher level; perhaps they don't have last year's seniors to play off of. I think the easy part of the schedule will be good to work out things right now. I brought into the hype on this team, so I have been disappointed, but I think we can turn it around come conference play. We have talent, and when everybody learns his role, we should be okay.

[nodak89]

With regards to JT3 and his teams lacking fire and "guts"...

Who are the most aggressive and onion-laden, throwback Hoya kids right now---maybe Sapp, Rivers, Macklin, Wallace (?).

Think about the players who some complain about their passivity---oh maybe Roy and Jeff.

Who recruited the throwback-type Hoyas? Hmm. Wasn't it III? Isn't it III who is bringing in Freeman and Wright?

Wait and see a few years before you decide that III's teams and players have no "guts."

[StPetersburgHoya (Inactive)]

nodak89 said:

With regards to JT3 and his teams lacking fire and "guts"...

Who are the most aggressive and onion-laden, throwback Hoya kids right now---maybe Sapp, Rivers, Macklin, Wallace (?).

Think about the players who some complain about their passivity---oh maybe Roy and Jeff.

Who recruited the throwback-type Hoyas? Hmm. Wasn't it III? Isn't it III who is bringing in Freeman and Wright?

Wait and see a few years before you decide that III's teams and players have no "guts."

This is a really good post. I never thought of that.

[hoyalove4ever]

I hear you, Nodak, but Jeff and Roy were very good, if not great, recruits. This is just the beginning of their Jr. year, and they've shown a lot of heart in many games up to this point. Let's cut them some slack.

[][-][ 0 `/ /-\ 5]

I'm gonna venture away from the negative comments for a moment:
(I'm not saying he played great or better than everyone else but)
How awesome were Roy's drive and strip when a guy was standing in front of him in the post holding the ball out? I broke down laughing after both.

[nodak89]

hoyalove4ever said:

I hear you, Nodak, but Jeff and Roy were very good, if not great, recruits. This is just the beginning of their Jr. year, and they've shown a lot of heart in many games up to this point. Let's cut them some slack.

Allow me to clarfiy, lest one think that even nodak is off the Jeff and Roy bandwagon.

I was trying to persuade some of the ledge jumpers to back off III by meeting them when thier mindset is. If you grant their supposition that Jeff and Roy have no "guts"--a point which I personally disagree---then look at the players brought in by III himself and then judge the type of players and team on that.

Jeff is simply unselfish to a fault. Roy has the "Heart of a Hoya", but also remember that I wrote: "don't you know they can't push you around?"

I love the fact that they have to overcome and push themselves beyond who were as frosh to be great players. Oden? Where's then fun it that? All freakish talent and no struggle is not very heroic, if you ask me.

I'll take Charles Smith over Carmelo Anthony everytime.

[Cambridge]

Speaking as one of the most vocal critics last week...I saw enough in the first half that I'm actually happier than I was after the Oregon game. Other than Green who continues to play about as much offense as I do for the Hoyas...everyone else seemed to at least want to put the ball in the basket. I mean, they weren't particularly proficient at it in the second half, but at least, they tried to score this game.

The Rivers injury is killing me. I really loved the way Rivers plays heads up defense and hits the passing lanes for easy steals.

Sapp had a stellar game. I see real promise in him. That ridiculous pickup game running bank shot in the second half was obsurd. Loved it. I also love the fact that he's really becoming exceptional at drawing offensive fouls. He managed to snake one this game and he got two in the Oregon game. Always manages to sneak in, set his feet and react realistically yet emphatically enough to draw the whistle.

Wallace tried so hard to get us going, but he made some ridiculously bone headed passes. There was at least two that he appeared to just forget what color jersey we were wearing and throw it directly at McBob. Killed us.

Green forced way, way, way too many passes and showed no desire to take his man off the dribble or post up. Now, at least he seemed to be giving his all this week in the hustle categories...rebounds, lose balls, etc. But, what the hell happened to this guy's scoring ability? Does he have mono? Did his girl break up with him? Is he suffering from a concussion? When did he turn into Big Ben Rothlisburger? At this point he is a black hole sucking the life out of our offense.

Hibbert had a decent game. It was a mixture of extreme highs and lows. Gotta love the pick and roll-type dunk he coordinated with Sapp in the first half. Also, the dribble drive for a layup was off the hook. But, he got beasted on a few rebounds by a dude who would get cut from my intramural team. That has to end.

Zone defense kills us. Boy do we miss DJ. Can we just call him the most underrated Hoya ever? I mean seriously, is there any doubt that DJ as the zone-busting shooting guard would change our results dramatically. This isn't to take away from any of the guards on the team, but merely to wax lyrically about DJ and all the things we took for granted about him. What a key component he was. While I think the team previews were wrong about the guard play, because I think they are playing quite solidly as a unit...there were spot on about three-point shooting being a glaring weakness.

Defense is looking more and more solid. It appears that all that the team has been working almost exclusively on defense in practice. We have kept two major conference teams in the low 30%s which is incredible...especially considering we've lost both of those games. But, I think the guards are playing fairly well. Sure, they still get confused on some of the switches and get beat off the dribble more than once, but as a unit, the team has played pretty solid D for the last week.

Here's to hoping this team just practices jump shots for the next three months. Because if they make the same level of improvement in shooting in the next few weeks as they've made in defense...this team has a shot of making the tournament. Can we hire a shooting coach a la a hitting coach in baseball? Do teams ever do that? It would seem like a very very very valuable thing for us.

As a whole, I saw some real promise out of the team...of course I'm not expecting them to win, so I suppose that makes even a close loss shockingly awesome.

[YB]

OK, I've finally calmed down enough to post about the game with some perspective.

I think what you saw the last few games really are a bunch of guys with lots of individual talent who haven't yet figured out how to use that talent with each other.

Think about it: Last few years, Jeff has been best at passing, with gunners like Bobo and DJ. Roy, good at posting. Sapp, good individual scoring moves. JW- cutting and passing.

Add to that: Summers, shooting. Macklin, boarding. Rivers, passing. Egerson, going to the hole. Crawford, rebounds and D.

Now we have almost all of those guys doing thingzs other than what they were used to.

Is that wise? Maybe not, and I think all of them could be doing what bthey are good at within the P'town offense with a bit more aggression. The coaches may need to guide them a bit more; or....

they may just need time to figure out how to play together. I think this may be the single biggest remedy.

It may mean a disappointing season, which this already is.

It may mean unwatchable b'ball, which second 1/2 ODU, Oregon, Duke were.

But it will eventually result in consistently good hoops where they feel the freedom to play without constraint, like first half Duke.

I think the potential is there, but will take patience and time. Do we have it? No. Do they? Maybe.

Do the coaches? Probably.

So I guess we wait for the guys to figure it out. And scream for Roy and Jeff to be more aggressive and to lead.

[HoyaFanNY]

the coaches have to get blame as well as the players. duke said they adjusted in the 2nd half and we didn't. that's a TEAM problem. coaches and players.

[hoya73]

As far as zone-busting goes, Duke switched to a 1-3-1 for only two possessions. Wallace hit a three and they went back to the man to man. You could claim he busted their zone. We've had trouble with zones this season, but Duke beat us in the second half while playing man to man defense for most possessions.

[bmartin]

But they changed their man defense to not pressure/overplay on the perimeter but collapse on the interior. Rather than go for steals outside, they tipped away forced entry passes and stripped the big men on the double team. The situation still cried out for a shooter to stretch the defense.

[Cambridge]

bmartin said:

But they changed their man defense to not pressure/overplay on the perimeter but collapse on the interior. Rather than go for steals outside, they tipped away forced entry passes and stripped the big men on the double team. The situation still cried out for a shooter to stretch the defense.

That was my point. They sagged on the interior and we couldn't shoot the dep ball and force them to stop.