SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 29, 2006 23:44:48 GMT -5
Guys, it is very simple.
It isn't the offense.
It certainly isn't that Oregon is better or quicker than us (we destroyed virtually the same team last year, and they played like crap today).
It sure as heck isn't guard play, or three point shooting.
It isn't the lack of a third scorer.
It isn't because Tyler Crawford is sick.
Jeff and Roy sucked. Most of the rest of the team sucked as well. No one showed interest in winning, and our lottery picks were either going up weakly like they were afraid of contact or simply taking a dribble then passing, like Jeff did all day.
This team goes nowhere if they suck. I really don't know why Jeff has gone completely missing three times in five games or why Roy seems to be regressing.
Our big men, our "Lottery picks", our stars were no shows. Regardless of how unspired most of their backups played as well, they are supposed to lead the team. Until they do, we're an NIT team.
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Nov 29, 2006 23:50:03 GMT -5
This is largely true, but to ignore the problems we had with their quickness (that led to a lot of our defensive struggles and poor rebounding) and their lack of concern for our 3 point shooting (makes it much harder for Roy and Jeff to score) is just as faulty.
However, Roy and Jeff can play better. Conversly, we can't get any quicker, and we are never going to be scary from 3. But I think they are still plenty of adjustments to be made beyond Roy and Jeff simply picking it up.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 29, 2006 23:55:36 GMT -5
This is largely true, but to ignore the problems we had with their quickness (that led to a lot of our defensive struggles and poor rebounding) and their lack of concern for our 3 point shooting (makes it much harder for Roy and Jeff to score) is just as faulty. However, Roy and Jeff can play better. Conversly, we can't get any quicker, and we are never going to be scary from 3. But I think they are still plenty of adjustments to be made beyond Roy and Jeff simply picking it up. Yes, there are lots of ways to win. One way would certainly be for us to have All-American guards who can defend, nail the three and as Mr. Sixer would say, create. You can say that of any team. What we have are a good center and a should be All-American forward. They should not have to have guards hand them a bushel of easy baskets. They should be able to score one on one and actually find an open man when doubled (which happened exactly ZERO times tonight). They should be helping to erase the mistakes when a guard penetrates. We are strong in the frontcourt and that's how we're going to win this year. Why do Jeff and Roy get a free ride? This is their team. They CANNOT disappear like that. It isn't like their supporting cast is playing like Mike Sweetney's. When the strength of the team doesn't perform, that's why you lost. Blaming another part of the team for not becoming instantaneous stars to make up for an utter lack of effort is silly. (And Wallace was tremendous offensively tonight and passable defensively). |
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Nov 29, 2006 23:57:35 GMT -5
Who is giving Roy or Jeff free rides, or saying that their poor play wasn't the main reason we lost? EDITED
Make your points without the name calling please.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 30, 2006 0:00:13 GMT -5
Who is giving Roy or Jeff free rides, or saying that their poor play wasn't the main reason we lost? Whackos like mrsixer don't count. People are blaming the offense, commenting on the lack of a third scorer, etc. We needs scorers one and two before we can annoint a three. Right now, Wallace is our best scorer. The way seems to think the almost exact same Oregon team from last year was too quick for us. I disagree -- we waxed their undisciplined selves last year because we played with some level of effort. YB thinks it is the freshmen. |
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Nov 30, 2006 0:02:03 GMT -5
I think you are focusing on a minority of posters. I am 100% sure that a vast majority would put Jeff and Roy as the top reasons we lost tonight.
And I think that name-calling should be allowed when mrsixer is involved. He is a pure troll.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 30, 2006 0:04:28 GMT -5
I think you are focusing on a minority of posters. I am 100% sure that a vast majority would put Jeff and Roy as the top reasons we lost tonight. And I think that name-calling should be allowed when mrsixer is involved. He is a pure troll. You may be right. Jeff and Roy should get the benefit of the doubt, given how well they've played in the past, but sometimes folks on this board move closer to hero worship than fandom. I agree on Sixer. The guy makes Ernie Kent look like a brilliant game strategist... No, wait, that was the team tonight. |
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YB
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Post by YB on Nov 30, 2006 0:04:58 GMT -5
I disagree- the reason Roy and Jeff sucking is hurting us so much is that we are getting NOTHING, no playmaking from anyone else but J-Wall, who has been fantastic. But the freshmen and sophs are just chucking and ducking right now. They have no clue how to pass or cut, which limits the effectiveness of everything else. And when they turn the ball over, or Jeff makes an errant pass, or Roy doesn't jump for a rebound, then they play lousy D onthe other end. It's a vicious cycle and coach has his work cut out for him on this bunch.
Give me the lightly recruited, hard working, playing together bunch of yesteryear. They were flawed but were the only team in the Dance who could have taken out every other team, along with Florida. But this group read too much of their own press, got sloppy, and relied on youth who never proved themselves to earn minutes on the court.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 30, 2006 0:10:01 GMT -5
Marc played a pretty good game.
Jeff and Roy are the primary options. They are expected to step up, not freshman less than two months into their college careers.
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YB
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Post by YB on Nov 30, 2006 0:16:22 GMT -5
We do need Roy and Jeff to step up, I agree. No question- you can't expect freshmen to lead in this offense, but those 2 are acting like it....
Marc did not play a real good game... his poor shot selection and crucial walk were killer.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 30, 2006 0:20:10 GMT -5
Marc - 13 points on 12 shots, only two turnovers, 7 rebounds (second to Jeff's 8 in 14 more minutes).
I'm not sure what the expectation is for Marc. He did take some bad shots but overall shot better than anyone other than Jon (primarily because he pushed it upcourt) and may have had a crucial tunover, but 2 in 24 minutes isn't awful/. His two fast break buckets and nice left handed drive helped keep us in it in the first half.
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YB
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Post by YB on Nov 30, 2006 0:24:27 GMT -5
Quote from Coach:
"Our offense was not good," Thompson said. "We have to figure it out. We're tentative, we're unsure, we are growing, we are working through that. We are a young team. We've got three guys out there that have experience, and we are trying to get a feel for it."
That walk by Marc was killer. We had some degree of momentum then.
He still looks jittery when he plays- doesn't seem to pass real well, looks to shoot. Everyone looks to shoot, like they try to get theirs at the expense of the team. Very tough to watch, maybe that's why Jeff isn't shooting- he is trying to set others up.
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Nov 30, 2006 0:28:35 GMT -5
It's hard for me to see "everyone is looking to shoot" as a valid complaint about our offense.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Nov 30, 2006 0:29:22 GMT -5
I agree completely with No Effort If Jeff gets involved or even if hibbert just goes strong to the basket we win this game easily. Simple as that nothing more complex than that.
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YB
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Post by YB on Nov 30, 2006 0:32:39 GMT -5
I agree HSB. Jeff and Roy are not being the leaders this team desperately needs them to be. Boy, do I miss DJ and AC and BB.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Nov 30, 2006 0:59:02 GMT -5
Missing DJ and AC and BB was not the problem. JW, JS, DS, and ME have all shown the ability and the desire to pick up their slack. It is missing your two alleged All Big East performers that will kill you. Those two guys are the reason this team was preseason top 10, and those two guys will be what will get the team there in the end, but Sweet Fancy Moses, they certainly did not bring it tonight.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Nov 30, 2006 1:02:57 GMT -5
Quote from Coach: "Our offense was not good," Thompson said. "We have to figure it out. We're tentative, we're unsure, we are growing, we are working through that. We are a young team. We've got three guys out there that have experience, and we are trying to get a feel for it." That walk by Marc was killer. We had some degree of momentum then. He still looks jittery when he plays- doesn't seem to pass real well, looks to shoot. Everyone looks to shoot, like they try to get theirs at the expense of the team. Very tough to watch, maybe that's why Jeff isn't shooting- he is trying to set others up. Well why do we only have 3 guys with experience? Sapp and Egerson were only guys to get any run and when they did play, they did well enough to earn more minutes, but didn't receive them. So the "youth" of team is ridiculous copout--the Jr trio is only seeing Wallace do his part as Jeff and Roy have SUCKED. |
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YB
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Post by YB on Nov 30, 2006 1:08:57 GMT -5
It's a truism in all sports, all levels, all teams. Youth is exciting but also tends to lose games.
III's system is even more so: at Princeton, he never played freshmen.
You rely on older players.
Problem is, ours have been rotten. JW has been great, but TC is sick, Jeff has been MIA and Roy really just played tonight like he had cement in his shoes. We need them to lead, to dominate, and they are not. I hope they can soon, because this season could easily slip away from us without some urgency.
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TBird41
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"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Nov 30, 2006 7:44:07 GMT -5
It's a truism in all sports, all levels, all teams. Youth is exciting but also tends to lose games. III's system is even more so: at Princeton, he never played freshmen. You rely on older players. Problem is, ours have been rotten. JW has been great, but TC is sick, Jeff has been MIA and Roy really just played tonight like he had cement in his shoes. We need them to lead, to dominate, and they are not. I hope they can soon, because this season could easily slip away from us without some urgency. Roy sucked last night. So did Jeff. They only scored 9 points tonight. Total. TOTAL. They had ZERO points in the first half. If EITHER of them showed up last night, we would have won. But they didn't. And without those two, we aren't all that special of a team. |
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Post by heartofahoya on Nov 30, 2006 9:58:15 GMT -5
I agree HSB. Jeff and Roy are not being the leaders this team desperately needs them to be. Boy, do I miss DJ and AC and BB. DJ was at the game last night! But only watching  |
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