Guts and Heart

[YB]

I dunno, RDF. It seems you are advocating a return to Esherickian coaching.... is that a good idea? The most popular comment on that era was that the guys looked like they ran around in chaotic fashion, so we got a coach who preaches discipline and organization. I don't expect III to change his stripes, the team will have to adjust to him.

[Deleted]

I think we need a "rally" to demand a greater effort from the players.

Thank Jeebuz my girlfriend made me take her out to dinner last night, keeping me from the horrors of listening to Rich call a game that I can only imagine was the textbook definition of "hot garbage."

BRING BACK THE THROW DRIBBLE!!!

[SFHoya99]

RDF,

I think you are going way too much off of what the_way was saying.

Simple truths about this game:

1. When Roy got the ball down low he failed to go up strong and missed
2. Jeff was content to catch the ball, dribble once, look for a pass, then dump it off when the aggressive pass wasn't there. He showed no attempt to score for himself despite being guarded by 6'3" Bryce Taylor for much of the game.
3. They outrebounded us in the first half and had 10 offensive boards.
4. Their guards were quicker, but they still shot under 40% because their guards were undisciplined morons. I'd say they took at least 8-10 threes from NBA range for no reason. They did not make them.
5. No one moved without the ball.
6. Jon was getting to the hoop pretty easily.

We got outhustled and our stars played like crap. There's no reason to believe the "system" held them back.

[lichoya68]

agree with the way and everyone they are good and quicker and woulda blown us out if they were hitttting and roy GO STONG YOUNG MAN the guy i took to the game says he waits five seconds to put it up and then misses or looses it etc.. GO UP AND STUFF IT IN ROY no finese use your power go hoyas beat duke PLEASE ;D ;D

[RDF]

The thing people always associate with uptempo basketball is "firing/gunning"--it's a style of play that can be coached--when your bigs can run the floor--you utilize it--and Macklin, Green, and Summers can really run the floor. What you have right now is a team that is playing Roy with guys who might play better if he wasn't on court--it's why you have to adjust--and I am NOT saying Roy shouldn't play or be moved to bench--I'm just saying the team can't get out and use their speed in frontcourt if he's on court because then you are playing 4/5 basketball waiting for him. If you are going to utilize the halfcourt game, you have to find best personnel on team to do this--and that means Egerson, Wallace, Green, Hibbert, and from early returns, Summers. You should then cut rotation down and do what he did last year.

To say I want "Esherick style" back is an insult and made me puke. I never want to see anything remotely close to that garbage. It was CHAOS.

I want organized ball but why does everyone always associate uptempo with unorganized? It's like people's negative view of our possession style of ball-which I don't mind if you have personnel to execute it--but if you don't, why keep beating your head up against a wall and force it on a team? These guys aren't loaded with type of players to do this--but continue to sub like they are an uptempo team--make up your mind and adjust to the style of play that will WIN Games. It's about winning by any means necessary and I just think Staff is failing in two areas

1. getting team ready to play from outset--how many damn games do I have to read about guys being "soft", "hesitant", or "unsure" of what they are doing--it's a GAME and meant to be played on instincts and with 5 guys attacking/being aggressive and not worried about mistakes. We've got a group trying to out-think opponents and they are screwing themselves up.

2. Defensively--this team is getting ripped by every/anyone who watches them play--which is why I can't wait to see them play Duke and see what exactly is going on--Wallace is a tough kid and asset to program but he's slow footed and gets exploited by quicker people--so why play man--let him float on defense and utilize the length/size of team to close out and at least give shots some contesting. If you are slow, you are stupid if you play man to man. Roy is improved, he's a fine player, but he's not someone who is going to intimidate anyone because he's not athletic and doesn't play with a mean streak on defensive end--Jeff has to rebound better but his offensive game is so screwed up now it's effecting his defense--he HAS to play better or this team won't make Big East Tournament.

I'm all for learning curves and taking some early losses to learn, but when I repeatedly read about guys not being ready to play, not being fired up, and getting their butts handed to them because other teams are "ready to play" and "want it more", that ticks me off and Coach keeps saying "we need to play better and shoot better"--well you can't score if you take 50 shots in a 40 minute game and hold the ball when behind--you have to alter the approach.

[YB]

RDF- I think we agree the thing right now is broken. But I think you could also see, if III were to unleash them we'd see ugliness on a massive scale. The freshmen have to learn how to actually play in a system that utilizes everyone's talents. The sophs too. The juniors have to learn how to lead and show the young guys the ropes. New roles for everyone- talent yes, but they have to learn to mesh it inot a team. Usually, that's more difficult to do than it sounds.

[SFHoya99]

RDF - I agree we need to play more uptempo. However, why do you associate our offense with slow tempo? Lots of pro teams basically play the offense but up tempo and we have at times as well.

For the freshmen to play uptempo right now, I expect some chucking. But the experienced players should be able to play our offense faster. They didn't against Oregon and I blame effort/aggression more than the system at hand.

Defensively, Jon is better in zone and so is Roy. But I wonder if we simply haven't spent enough time on our zone for it to be any good.

The effort ticks me off the most.

[hoyaboy1]

SF, this is the third straight year we have played at one of the slowest paces in the country. I think associating our offense with a slow tempo is fair. Heck, we are 314th this year and that's the highest of the JTIII era.

Until we actually see the supposed changes due to new personnel that will lead to the pace picking up, I'm not really buying it.

[SFHoya99]

hoyaboy1 said:

SF, this is the third straight year we have played at one of the slowest paces in the country. I think associating our offense with a slow tempo is fair. Heck, we are 314th this year and that's the highest of the JTIII era.

Until we actually see the supposed changes due to new personnel that will lead to the pace picking up, I'm not really buying it.

Understandable. I guess my point is that the offense can be run at a faster pace, and this team has done so at times, on a game by game basis.

I don't think we'll ever be a fast paced team -- many of those are chuck and run, but they should pick up the pace a bit.

I'm not sure that will help, though. Everyone bemoans our lack of a PG -- wouldn't that exacerbate the situation to try to run, where you really need good, fast ball handlers and finishers at guard?

[RDF]

sfhoya99 said:

RDF - I agree we need to play more uptempo. However, why do you associate our offense with slow tempo? Lots of pro teams basically play the offense but up tempo and we have at times as well.

For the freshmen to play uptempo right now, I expect some chucking. But the experienced players should be able to play our offense faster. They didn't against Oregon and I blame effort/aggression more than the system at hand.

Defensively, Jon is better in zone and so is Roy. But I wonder if we simply haven't spent enough time on our zone for it to be any good.

The effort ticks me off the most.

I guess I should change my words--I'm not saying we need to be UNLV of Tark era or Loyola Marymount under Westhead, or even Roy Williams and his system--what I want to see is URGENCY/PASSION in executing the offense--right now I'm all for executing whatever offense we're using ;D but this or any offense needs to operate with some purpose, urgency, and not going through motions. I think we agree on it and maybe my comments are not getting across due to me using "uptempo" instead of urgent/crisp tempo. You can play any style but you have to attack and have a sense of purpose.

[SFHoya99]

rdf said:

I guess I should change my words--I'm not saying we need to be UNLV of Tark era or Loyola Marymount under Westhead, or even Roy Williams and his system--what I want to see is URGENCY/PASSION in executing the offense--right now I'm all for executing whatever offense we're using ;D but this or any offense needs to operate with some purpose, urgency, and not going through motions. I think we agree on it and maybe my comments are not getting across due to me using "uptempo" instead of urgent/crisp tempo. You can play any style but you have to attack and have a sense of purpose.

I don't disagree. My frustration is caused by this:

After a loss, regardless of why we lost, there are calls to change the offense and (this year) calls that our guards suck.

There is relatively little discussion of other, possibly more pertinent causes and almost no discussion of 50% of the game -- defense.

When we win, there's almost no discussion period. But credit is rarely given to the offense (even though, when run correctly, this team never takes a bad shot because we have so many wide open ones and layups) or (this year) to the guards.

Last year, people harped on the senior class no matter what, and claimed because they were seniors they should be held to a higher standard. But that's BS, they harped on the seniors because thats what they always harped on.

This year, people harp on the guards despite the fact that the frontcourt should be held to a higher standard. They harp on the guards and the offense because that's their thing, even when something else loses the game.

[RDF]

Not true at all--I've consistently taken issue with:

1. Lack of emotion/stale opening half under III

2. Guys not playing aggressively

3. No urgency in staff/team when trailing

My ideal game for this program is seeing offense run as it was against Duke--players just playing ball and running when given opportunities and running offense in halfcourt but looking to score and moving away from ball.

The offense is designed to get good shots by movement and what some people classify as movement/motion is nowhere near what it has to be--want to see movment off the ball--watch Richard Hamilton, Allen Iverson, Reggie Miller, Larry Bird tapes. Want to see a crappy offense--watch the MAJORITY of CBB teams spread the court and have one man dribble/hold ball and throw it around with nobody moving.

I just want to see shots going up when players are open and in a spot they can hit a shot--I don't care if he makes it or not, but you can't make it if you don't take it.

There is NO EXCUSE for not being mentally ready to play or emotional when you play--there are 7 months of the offseason and 5 months you play--how can you not be fired up to play game you love? III and Staff make excellent halftime adjustments but why isn't the team ready from opening tip? When they were against Duke, Ohio State, and Syracuse, you see how they play--agressive, good basketball. When they come out like they did against Illinois--I'd rather watch paint dry-it's CRAPPY BASKETBALL.

I don't care about wins/losses as much as how the team is playing--if you get beat by a superior team, fine, but to not be aggressive or getting out-hustled is not acceptible. Last year we got beat at home by WVU in a game that we played an excellent 1st Half and just couldn't hit shots in 2nd Half--that happens and wasn't mad at all-because we took shots and were aggressive but just didn't make them--no problem. Illinois game on road last year--was pathetic--scared team, afraid to succeed/compete and not ready to play--2nd Half they step up and Jeff Green's 2nd Half in that game or entire game against Ohio State/Duke is how he has to bring it EVERY NIGHT--that is what a great player/leader does--they don't float in/out-they bring it night in, night out.

Criticism of guards is because they aren't well rounded players/threats--it's not that they are bad players--it's that they are role players and when they are put in role they fit, they'll excel-right now we've got rotation guys starting and it's not going to get it done-because other teams say "let those guys beat us--and if they do, give them credit"--minute you get more talent at guard spot--the entire floor/offense is better because teams can't take away strength--inside due to fact outside is equally talented/potent. Now the kids like Freeman/Wright will have to prove it--but I like their chances of doing so more than what we have now--just my take and why many have questions on the team--including III.