FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Oct 23, 2006 8:43:10 GMT -5
I get the feeling that the scramble to take credit for being the first to jump on the Tyler Crawford bandwagon will look like the scramble to figure out which student fan first put the Survivor/Starbucks commercial and "ROY! ROY ROY ROY!" together in their head. The only thing close to as impressive today as the number of consecutive threes Tyler drained in that warmup was how many cookies RBHoya took from the buffet line. What scramble? Murph came up with the Roy chant. Him and a hundred other people I've heard from. It wasn't me at least. I hated those commercials. Although at this very moment, the thought of having an aging rock band follow me around at work has some appeal, if only as a way to shake things up a bit on a slow morning.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Oct 23, 2006 8:56:31 GMT -5
RB did a good thing in mentioning Egerson because he may be one of the most improved guys on the team out of the group trying to crack the rotation. The form on his jumper is very sound, and he showed good accuracy in the shooting drills today. He has also slimmed down and added muscle so he can reasonably play a little SG. He also had a good midrange shot in the halfcourt sets toward the end of the public practice. If Tyler Crawford becomes the Fall Out Boy/Panic! At The Disco of the Hoyatalk board as too many people jump on the bandwagon, I'm gonna make Marc Egerson my band-you've-never-heard-of and dig up my Kenner League recaps about how he was improving over the summer. I wish I'd gone to more Myers & Alterman games during the summer, but I had other stuff to do on the rest of those weekend afternoons and I was focused on seeing the Tombs and Clyde's (and the insides of both of those establishments as well ). Gosh now I really wanna go find those recaps. I wasn't even paying that much attention to Marc yesterday but I'm glad RB/the Cookie Monster was and caught that.
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YB
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Post by YB on Oct 23, 2006 9:20:51 GMT -5
Right now this is all academic. III himself said he didn't yet know what he had to work with, or what he might change (I asked that question specifically). At this point, would it surprise anyone to see him do something none of us foresaw?
Or to have it work?
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Oct 23, 2006 9:55:34 GMT -5
Barkley was 6'4 at the most.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 23, 2006 11:11:44 GMT -5
I think the early soft part of the schedule will decide how many deep JT3 goes this year. Everyone will get minutes vs. some of these teams, and what they do with their opportunities might force his hand into a 9-10 man rotation. Particularly I'm talking about Spann, Rivers and Macklin. It seems like from Kenner that these guys wont be able to meaningfully contribute this year. How did you come to that conclusion? Macklin got stronger as the KL progressed and appeared to be a force in the last two games he played in. Plus he's arguably the best athlete on the team, the best shot blocker and III thinks very highly of him. Spann had an impresive summer based on FlHoya's reports, certainly just as strong as Egerson and Crawford. Plus he's a pretty good player who can do a lot of diffeent things on the court (shoot mid-range shots, handle the ball, rebound, play defense, etc). Who doesn't need a guy like that? Rivers give the team the best size at the point, can drive to the hoop against anyone appears and is probably one of the best defenders on the perimeter for this team based on his rep. Again, we can use a guy like that this season.
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Post by Nitrorebel on Oct 23, 2006 12:32:04 GMT -5
Am with MCI on necessity of threes (way over-rated), rotation (needs to be 8-9 this year, and Calhoun/Williams next) and "Georgetown offense":
1) If Roy and Jeff and the other forwards are struggling, we'll be playing Florida in the final in April. Otherwise, this will not be a relevant scenario. Hitting 3s will be gravy, the meat will be down low.
2) Guys like Ticket that were recruited their entire lives, will not stay on a bench for a year. This is the first time in 3's career that he will be dealing with multiple NBA prospects on a roster: you can't deal with 5-star recruits the way you deal with Sead. Austin, Ticket, Wright, etc are not coming here to learn for 2 years in practice and then play their senior year. They're coming to make noise a la Oden, Thad Young or Durant this year. That means that 3 either pulls a K as MCI suggests and limits himself to 8-9 5 stars at any one time or he has a turnover that will make his head spin and negative recruiting that will kill any buzz the staff has built up at the moment. Macklin is no Josh Thornton.
3) I don't think the past 2 seasons should be seen as emblematic for 3's game plan, just as the '05 recruiting class isn't emblematic for the McDAAs he's pulled in since. 3 was playing with cards dealt him. Now that's he slowly getting his own roster together, I expect a faster offense, and tighter defense, i.e. a much more "pro-style" setup on both ends. That, together with higher quality players, leads me to believe that we will be seeing deeper rotatations, especially next year, but also this year. I don't expect desperation shots at the 35 sec mark to be as common as they have been; and I'm pretty sure they won't be because Jeff will "rebound" Roy's dunks and Roy can return the favor.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Oct 23, 2006 13:13:09 GMT -5
Am with MCI on necessity of threes (way over-rated), rotation (needs to be 8-9 this year, and Calhoun/Williams next) and "Georgetown offense": 1) If Roy and Jeff and the other forwards are struggling, we'll be playing Florida in the final in April. Otherwise, this will not be a relevant scenario. ?? I don't understand this He's saying that only Florida's front court is good enough to cause our frontcourt to struggle. That clear it up?
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 23, 2006 13:16:52 GMT -5
2) Guys like Ticket that were recruited their entire lives, will not stay on a bench for a year. This is the first time in 3's career that he will be dealing with multiple NBA prospects on a roster: you can't deal with 5-star recruits the way you deal with Sead. Austin, Ticket, Wright, etc are not coming here to learn for 2 years in practice and then play their senior year. They're coming to make noise a la Oden, Thad Young or Durant this year. That means that 3 either pulls a K as MCI suggests and limits himself to 8-9 5 stars at any one time or he has a turnover that will make his head spin and negative recruiting that will kill any buzz the staff has built up at the moment. Macklin is no Josh Thornton. Amen. Here we are as fans praying and hoping the big time recruits come our way and when they do we sit back and come up with these playing-minutes scenarios in which five star recruits basically sit on the bench for a year until they learn the system. What reality are we living in here? Macklin can learn as he goes while getting regular minutes on the floor. Same goes for a non five-star recruit like Rivers too. Will they make mistakes? Of course. They are freshmen.
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Oct 23, 2006 13:26:52 GMT -5
So how big of a rotation are you hoping for, MCI? Seems like 11.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Oct 23, 2006 13:52:06 GMT -5
Amen. Here we are as fans praying and hoping the big time recruits come our way and when they do we sit back and come up with these playing-minutes scenarios in which five star recruits basically sit on the bench for a year until they learn the system. What reality are we living in here? Macklin can learn as he goes while getting regular minutes on the floor. Same goes for a non five-star recruit like Rivers too. Will they make mistakes? Of course. They are freshmen. It's interesting because I've noticed the opposite lately when people are talking about our incoming backcourt recruits like Wright and Freeman--essentially penciling them in to start from Day 1 before they set foot on the Hilltop as student athletes. But that aside, I think it's an understandable bias to not project Macklin or freshman X for immediate big minutes. Some people just have a preference for the "proven" thing. If the proven thing is a dominant player like Jeff Green or Roy Hibbert, it may not be so much "I don't think Vernon is capable of giving us minutes--he's too raw" as "I think Roy and Jeff are so good I don't want anybody taking away their minutes". You can have it both ways of course. One response JT3 gave at the Open Practice indicated that he doesn't have a preference for/against starting freshmen--after all, two seasons ago he started THREE (Wallace, Green, Hibbert). Nor is it unusual in recent Georgetown history--the 2000-2001 team started two freshmen (Riley and Sweetney) ahead of at least two seniors w/ starting experience (Perry and Burton). Plain and simple--whoever is ready to play and earns it in practice will start and get minutes. If Kenny Izzo is out there at the three spot when the lights go down at Verizon on November 11...well, way to earn it Kenny!
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 23, 2006 14:29:46 GMT -5
So how big of a rotation are you hoping for, MCI? Seems like 11. Why not? Have your regular 7 play their normal minutes and the other four you can rotate from game to game depending on the situation. But what I don't want to see is bench players going almost a month without playing time as occurred the past two seasons.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Oct 23, 2006 14:35:29 GMT -5
I want to play - can we have a 22 person rotation?
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Locker
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Post by Locker on Oct 23, 2006 15:01:15 GMT -5
Note that not all 5-star recruits would be entirely psyched about an 11-man rotation -- since that means fewer (not more) minutes for the very best players.
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Eurostar
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Post by Eurostar on Oct 23, 2006 15:09:14 GMT -5
How did you come to that conclusion? Macklin got stronger as the KL progressed and appeared to be a force in the last two games he played in. Plus he's arguably the best athlete on the team, the best shot blocker and III thinks very highly of him. Spann had an impresive summer based on FlHoya's reports, certainly just as strong as Egerson and Crawford. Plus he's a pretty good player who can do a lot of diffeent things on the court (shoot mid-range shots, handle the ball, rebound, play defense, etc). Who doesn't need a guy like that? Rivers give the team the best size at the point, can drive to the hoop against anyone appears and is probably one of the best defenders on the perimeter for this team based on his rep. Again, we can use a guy like that this season. Macklin did play better as the Kenner league progressed, but in the games I saw he literally dropped about 50% of passes that came to him. Plus he did nothing in the high school all star games he played in. He will be ready to dominate in time but, as FLHoya said, Roy and Jeff are too good to be giving up any significant amount of minutes. Plus JT3 said earlier that we will be suprised how little time Macklin gets this year (for being such a high recruit). In fact i think in the final rankings Summers actually leapfrogged Macklin. PS in those games that Macklin dropped all those passes in the KL, he still scored like 15-20 points... so he IS good enough to play now. Spann played no minutes last year and Rivers is hurt. Plus if they play that means we will be going 11 deep which is not going to happen. As I said before I think in meaningful games (im talking vs. top big east opponents) we will only see Roy, Jeff, Ewing, Summers, Sapp, Crawford, Wallace (and maybe some Macklin by BE season). Our season this year will depend on how these guys perform.
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YB
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Post by YB on Oct 23, 2006 17:02:28 GMT -5
Vernon has a lot of talent and will be critical for us when all is said and done; right now he's Roy's backup. But he drops a lot of passes; can't shoot a lick; and doesn't fit into what III is doing- yet. But mark my words, the kid will be tremendous eventually.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 23, 2006 17:45:35 GMT -5
What does last season have to do with this season? Didn't III tell his sophs to all improve over the offseason and work hard? Are you suggesting he said this knowing in advance he wasn't going to give certain players a true chance if they indeed worked on their games?
Based on last season I suppose Tyler won't be playing this year either, right?
Oh, and now you're the coach?
Its one thing for all of us to suggest what he should do; its quite another to act as if you exactly what he will do.
He better get used to playing 11 because he's not recruiting kids who will sit on the bench. In Spann's case we are talking about a player that has legit talent, size and athleticism for the three. IMO he would have been a starter on most of those late JT II teams and Esherick's teams. That may not be saying much but it does tell you that the guy would be wasted if he sat on the bench for two seasons. Its one thing if you're Tyler Crawford and came in with less of a rep (and even from sources it seemed clear that Tyler and especially his family were kinda frustrated with his lack of playing time his first two years); its a different story when you're a basically consensus top 100 recruit like Spann who had a choice of going to other high major programs. And if Crawford and Spann feel that way then just wait until the Wrights, freemans, Braswells, etc start joining the team. There is, at this rate, going to be a time in the near future when the Hoyas have about 11 consensus top 100 players on its roster at once, including four or more five-star guys. All of these guys may look pretty darn good when you catch them at the KL and in practice. If and when this happens I'd love to see some of you folks come up with these scenarios that justify playing 7 or 8 while the others look on. Because only to a loyal Gtown fanatic (and perhaps its head coach) does that type of rotation make any sense. Those other top flight players, unlike the fans, won't be as willing to see the "logic" in wasting one or two seasons of their lives blissfully watching on as their teammates get all the run while they barely get squeezed into a blowout game against Southwestern Idaho State. Its not the real world.
Coaching isn't just about X & Os. Its also about recruiting. Its also about managing egos. As charismatic as III may be he will still have a hard time keeping much of his team happy if talented players of his feel they never get a chance to get on the court to show what they can do. If all III wants to do is play 7 or 8 guys he better not fil all of his schollies and he certainly better not fill 11 or more of them with four and five star recruits. This ins't the 1950s or even the 1970s and this ain't the Ivy League. This is 2006 and the conference the Hoyas play in is Big Time. They are now drawing big time recruits. Big time recruits expect, if not demand, some quality playing time.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 23, 2006 18:14:21 GMT -5
The only team I've ever heard of going 11 deep was the 95-96 Kentucky Wildcats, and that's only if you include Nazr Mohammed and Oliver Simmon's 5 mpg as the 11th.
In the title game, only 7 people got more than 10 minutes and only nine even played.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Oct 23, 2006 18:17:01 GMT -5
How about our '84 team?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 23, 2006 18:19:12 GMT -5
I was seven, so I missed that one. But it seems they may have gone 11 or 12 deep, but more likely ten. Then again, we're talking about two of the greatest college basketball teams of the past thirty years... We're used to shuttling, because of John, Jr. and Esh. I don't think it is a common practice. Not that I would mind it, but I also don't think our program will shrivel up and die on a 9 man rotation. What I'd like to see more is players get time in games we are winning easily. When we're up by 20 on Hartford, I don't understand why Spann won't get any PT.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Oct 23, 2006 18:26:05 GMT -5
I remember the game and it looked like there was traffic with so many Hoyas going in and out of the game.
Agree. If the we're up by 20, every player should get some PT.
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