NJHoya95
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 206
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Post by NJHoya95 on Apr 27, 2004 13:47:32 GMT -5
Preceeding this weekend's John Carroll Awards Weekend, Frank Rienzo and Jim Higgins sent a letter to Kathy Baczko (Pres. GU Alum. Assn) regarding the hiring of JT3. There was a lot of good news from the weekend including that the committee conducted “extensive interviews” with a “considerable number of finalists.” Clear that a very professional search was conducted and that we have every reason to feel optimistic in the future. Most attendees of the weekend were excited by JT3. Interesting quotes worth considering:
“There [was] not a time limit to the process -- [Our goal was to] Get the best candidate.”<br> “The committee conversed with a diverse and wide range of basketball administrators, alumni, former athletes and nationally recognized basketball experts seeking comments and information regarding the Georgetown University program, and the selection process. Their insights were generous and greatly appreciated.”<br> “The most gratifying experiences for us were the reinforcement of the respect that is retained by the University and the basketball communities for the tradition of the GU basketball program, its brand name, its future potential, as well as the excitement about the strong potential for the correct use of the MCI Center as out home court.”<br>
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doublehoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
That's Right, I Said Minivan!
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Post by doublehoya on Apr 27, 2004 13:50:18 GMT -5
I don't like the last clause of the last sentence:
"as well as the excitement about the strong potential for the correct use of the MCI Center as out home court."
I don't think we should hold our breath for the groundbreaking of a Convocation center.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Apr 27, 2004 13:50:53 GMT -5
Good news on the search process, and hopefully some of the explanation people have been looking for.
I think the convocation center has a long way to go in terms of becoming a reality on the Hilltop. Not impossible, but there are incredible obstacles that would have to be surmounted in putting it together and getting it approved by the city.
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Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Big Dog on Apr 27, 2004 14:07:07 GMT -5
Exactly the sort of information I for one was looking for. Thanks for sharing.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Apr 27, 2004 14:48:36 GMT -5
Sure would be nice if this were sent out as a press release from the university or at least posted on the official guhoyas.com web site. The full letter, that is.
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Post by dairishhoya on Apr 27, 2004 15:43:07 GMT -5
Uhm, just wondering ... what credible D-1 school has explained a successful hiring process (Not the schools with scandals or mis-steps)? DeGioia stated it was a "national search" and those who doubted it, are actually getting confirmation of that fact. Beyond this board ... who really cares? Or am I missing the articles on ESPN.com, the Washington Post, etc .... Let's look forward and welcome the JTIII era!!! When is the rally?
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2fftussie
Member
"I think that I shall never see, a power forward as lovely as the Lee."
Posts: 3
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Post by 2fftussie on Apr 27, 2004 15:57:08 GMT -5
What do we make of that last sentence from the committee's letter? Other than reflecting the slim chances of an on campus arena in the near future, does their use of the word "correct" imply that the quality of opponents scheduled at the MCI needs to change? And if thats what it means, then is it reasonable to assume the committee agreed on a candidate based at least partially on their willingness to "correctly" use MCI by scheduling outside of the MEAC?
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BigMike
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 253
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Post by BigMike on Apr 27, 2004 17:50:38 GMT -5
I think most people underestimate the value of MCI.
1. You can't get top of conference teams, like Duke, to play you at a 7,000 person on-campus arena.
2. If we win--MCI will be filled--Georgetown basketball is is best sports value in town and if we would win the local community will come out.
3. Playing at MCI center is good for recruiting----There were at least 5 recruits at the Duke game and when you see 20,000 people at a college game (even if there were a lot of Duke fans) that is a big selling point.
4. what game will we play on campus(NOT UCONN/Pitt/Cuse/Louisville/Cincy/ND/NOVA/Providence/SJU-when they get back on track) maybe Rutgers/South Florida/Depaul
I think we should play all BIG EAST and good non-conference games at MCI and crappy non-conf. games(MEAC teams) at an unchanged McD.
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Post by RaleighHoya on Apr 28, 2004 9:08:46 GMT -5
I think most people underestimate the value of MCI. 1. You can't get top of conference teams, like Duke, to play you at a 7,000 person on-campus arena. You can get Duke to play at McDonough if you guarantee them enough money. GU does not have the kind of money, but don't make it out to seem that it can't be done at all2. If we win--MCI will be filled--Georgetown basketball is is best sports value in town and if we would win the local community will come out. We won at US Air, and there were plenty of games that were not filled OR filled with the other teams fans. I don't buy this either.3. Playing at MCI center is good for recruiting----There were at least 5 recruits at the Duke game and when you see 20,000 people at a college game (even if there were a lot of Duke fans) that is a big selling point. Duke playing in a small arena doesn't seem to hurt. Wake Forest, Marquette, and the list can go on. I will not make the argument that it hurts recruiting THAT much, but I think kids like to play in front of packed houses. I surely do not see any argument that supports your claim that it helps. One sell out is all we have after playing there for years.4. what game will we play on campus(NOT UCONN/Pitt/Cuse/Louisville/Cincy/ND/NOVA/Providence/SJU-when they get back on track) maybe Rutgers/South Florida/Depaul\ We would play them all on campus if we had a plce that would fit 8-10K. If we needed more, we could rent the MCI out for one game instead of losing a million bucks a year renting the place for a set amount of games.I think we should play all BIG EAST and good non-conference games at MCI and crappy non-conf. games(MEAC teams) at an unchanged McD. I agree with you there
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,494
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Post by YB on Apr 28, 2004 9:27:06 GMT -5
I believe the arguments Big Mike makes here are pretty fallacious.
First, it costs us a bazillion bucks that we don't have every year to rent MCI. We have the third-highest facility rent of any D-1 NCAA school. We have to average more than 7k paying folks every game to break even. We have not done this even once at MCI. Not even once. The Duke game was a complete anomaly- one game in 5+ years.
Even when winning, we can't fill the arena. We never did at USAIR either- and that was playing in the heart of PG county with a hero to the Black community as our coach. Point is, we are small- small in enrollment, small in alums, small in fans. We need something that suits us better from that standpoint.
Add that to the fact that we have the worst facilities in all of D-1 sports. Yep, the worst. No upkeep. No renovations since the '60s. McD is awful, small and resembles an HS gym. That's not going to impress recruits.
Fact is, we need an on-campus facility. A better one that can seat 6-7k. That creates scarcity and allows the raising of p[rices and a good buzz around the program. We could move each and every game but the Syracuse and UConn games to the on campus facility (yep, that's how few people we get for the other games that are not opposing teams' fans). And that's not even to say anything about getting more students to come to games- we could probably get 3k students to most games under that setup rather than the 200 students we averaged each game at MCI. Yep, 200.
6-7 k in a packed house of Grey and Blue would rock a ton more than a half-filled MCI, which is all we'd ever get, with lots of opposing teams' fans there.
No more excuses- build the arena NOW.
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BigMike
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 253
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Post by BigMike on Apr 28, 2004 9:32:02 GMT -5
1. This was the worst year of GTOWN Hoops in my lifetime and attendance was around 8G----so if we are good and attendance gets up to 15G--why play at an 8G arena. (Note: it will not be possible to get approval in Georgetown for anything over 8,000 and even 8 will be stretching it)
2. US Air is very different than MCI---if MCI was around in the 80's we would have sold the place out all the time. Many more students would have gone to games without that awful bus ride. Also, many more local alums and local fans would show up because of the convenience of MCI's location.
3. I'm not saying an on-campus arena wouldn't be nice but if JTIII can bring the program back--it won't make sense to spend millions on an arena that will be way to small for the amount of people that want to come to the games. For all the raving about Cameron Indoor the media does: most students can't go to the games and the ones that get to go have to camp out for days.
We are in DC not Durham----and if you think playing in an 8G arena vs playing in MCI would help recruiting you are wrong.
Right now the only reason people don't like MCI is because fans don't show up---if we win that won't be a problem
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by YB on Apr 28, 2004 10:16:50 GMT -5
"1. This was the worst year of GTOWN Hoops in my lifetime and attendance was around 8G----so if we are good and attendance gets up to 15G--why play at an 8G arena. (Note: it will not be possible to get approval in Georgetown for anything over 8,000 and even 8 will be stretching it)"
First off, even during years we went to final fours, we only got 13k a game. During Iverson's years, we only got 13 ok a game, and we didn't lose a game all year at USAIR his Soph year. And anyone who was THERE at the games knows that we were, at best, 60/40 between our fans and others'.
Look, fact is, DC fans are fickle and will not support the little private Catholic School that could. There is no way in HELL we get 15k a game, I don't care if we win 40 NCAA titles in a row. Chances are we will be moderately competitive. For our fan base, we could get 8-10 a game. In a 7K arena the scarcity would give the impression that we're bigger than, in fact, we are. But don't delude yourself- unless you want the embarrassment of routinely being outdrawn in our own building, we need something smaller.
"2. US Air is very different than MCI---if MCI was around in the 80's we would have sold the place out all the time. Many more students would have gone to games without that awful bus ride. Also, many more local alums and local fans would show up because of the convenience of MCI's location."
Yeah it's different- we drew better at USAIR. In fact, so did the Caps and Wizards. The season ticket bases for all 3 have gone down since moving to MCI. Why, you ask? Because people forget that the bulk of the population of the DC area lives outside the metro system in Fairfax, Mongomery, and PG counties. They like driving to stuff. They can't park near MCI. It's tough to get there for 7 pm start times on workdays. These are complaints the Caps and Wizards are getting from their fans in surveys they take. I assume we are getting pulled under by the same things. Also, it's still off-campus- kids who have no memory of Ewing or Ivo are not getting up to take the 4 hours out of their day to go to games. They are too busy to do so, for now. MCI is not appreciably better than USAIR was in that regard for students, apparently.
"3. I'm not saying an on-campus arena wouldn't be nice but if JTIII can bring the program back--it won't make sense to spend millions on an arena that will be way to small for the amount of people that want to come to the games. For all the raving about Cameron Indoor the media does: most students can't go to the games and the ones that get to go have to camp out for days."
Again, even if we win, it is unreasonable to expect more than 10 k people to want to go to games (who are GU fans). Keep in mind, we are smaller than Duke. Our enrollment is only 6k. At our height in the 80s we had a student season ticket base of 2k out of (then) 4500 students. We could get maybe 3k students if we win national titles- but more likely we're looking at something like 1500. Add in the alums who have season tix, and you have about 5 or 6k . Perfect for a smaller arena. You overestimate our drawing power and student/alum base by a ton. Even in the very best of times we're not going to get more than 10k for a regular game- more certainly for a UConn or Syracuse.
"We are in DC not Durham----and if you think playing in an 8G arena vs playing in MCI would help recruiting you are wrong. "
Again, DEAD wrong here. we've been in MCI for 6 years now. Has it helped in recruiting? No. Kids can't practice in MCI, it restricts our scheudling since we wait for free dates from the Wiz and Crapitals, and when we're there, we get outdrawn by opposing teams' fans. That helps no one. Not to mention that our pathetic on-campus facilities are the worst in the country, locker rooms falling apart, weight training rooms in need of repair, practice in a HS gym. Not to mention that MCI is not a part of GU and never will be. We can't hang banners there to make it feel like home. We have one banner there- our 84 banner. On a high rafter that no one sees. That's it. On campus we could have tributes to players and teams past and present and really make it feel like home. THAT's what recruits the modern student-athlete- the feeling like he is supported. He will NEVER be supported like that at MCI, NEVER. And that hurts recruiting.
"Right now the only reason people don't like MCI is because fans don't show up---if we win that won't be a problem[/quote]"
Again, see #1- even when we won fans still didn't come. DC fans are fickle. Maryland fills their arena because they have an enrollment and alum base 10 time larger than ours. We are a small Catholic School that overachieves. If we do not give our bball program a REAL home then we will be consigning ourselves to mediocrity in perpetuity. We need SOME advantage. This is it.
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Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,912
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Post by Big Dog on Apr 28, 2004 10:27:42 GMT -5
Raleigh,
Marquette plays at--and fills--the Bradley Center, an off campus (though not that far) NBA arena seating 18,717. Not sure what you meant in referring to them above.
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,494
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Post by YB on Apr 28, 2004 10:33:32 GMT -5
2 other points:
1. Bradley Center is 3K less capacity than MCI, makes it easier to fill. Plus, it's a lot closer to their campus. PLUS, there is only one other tenant- makes it easier to schedule, rent is less, and they can help make it their home.
2. the idea of playing small non-con games at an unrenovated McD is also moot- our lovely MCI lease requires that we play all our games at MCI. Part of needing a new arena is that we can get a better deal, better leverage, bargaining with MCI for games we DO need them.
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SFOHoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 500
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Post by SFOHoya on Apr 28, 2004 10:41:16 GMT -5
Quick question:
Anyone know attendance figures for Big East games at the Cap Center during Ivo's sophomore year?
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,494
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Post by YB on Apr 28, 2004 10:43:11 GMT -5
It was 13 and change for Ivo's Soph year. We got big crowds for UConn, Syracuse, and Villanova but not particularly big crowds for the other games.
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McBricks
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
What Rocks.
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Post by McBricks on Apr 28, 2004 11:17:43 GMT -5
Another argument for an on campus facility - the team can actually practice where they play. I know we've all joked about it over the years - how the team looks like they've never played on the court before. But just imagine playing all your home games on a court you don't practice on. It can't be that easy to readjust to all the nuances of MCI after you've practiced the last 4 days at McDonough. Hmmm. Maybe that's why we somehow find a way to turn amazing high school shooters into guys that can't seem to hit the rim.
I know Norman Dale said that the gym had the same measurements as their gym back in Hickory, but I've got to believe that it can't hurt to practice and play in the same facility.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 28, 2004 11:23:12 GMT -5
Note: it will not be possible to get approval in Georgetown for anything over 8,000 and even 8 will be stretching it You never know until you try. Oh, and note to Mike. The team didn't average 15k total customers in 1984. How are we going to do that anytime soon. One ignored reason for building a new McDonough (aside from student interest, home court, practice, etc) is that MCI's rent is so high because they know we have no other option. I've been told as much. Building an on-campus arena gives us a bargaining chip with MCI. Not only will be not have to pay them to host our crappy games, which will be at McD, but our good games will be more profitable than now because we will have some leverage.
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SoCalHoya
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No es bueno
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Post by SoCalHoya on Apr 28, 2004 11:28:30 GMT -5
Re: Ivo's soph year. It wasn't always full that year, but I still remember the UConn game when it looked to be completely packed and the decibel meter read "136."
That was an unbelievable game.
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Post by RaleighHoya on Apr 28, 2004 11:42:22 GMT -5
Re: Ivo's soph year. It wasn't always full that year, but I still remember the UConn game when it looked to be completely packed and the decibel meter read "136." That was an unbelievable game. It was not always full that year. It was full for bigger games, but empty for early games. GU has also had to GIVE away a ton of tickets (which are then scalped) to the local community. If you look at actual attendance versus paid attendance, it is an even bigger negative.
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