SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,802
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 19, 2006 12:50:00 GMT -5
DFW, by "overrecruit, do you mean:
1) Offering scholarships so that there are more than 13 on the roster, forcing a tranfer? 2) Recruiting a better player at positions that currently have a decent number of players on the roster? 3) Continuing to recruit even though there are no schollies, but not offering scholarships? 4) Some combination of the above?
|
|
HoyaChris
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,408
|
Post by HoyaChris on Apr 19, 2006 12:51:12 GMT -5
Please don't misunderstand my post. In my view, the program was substantially hurt by the revolving door of players that accelerated in the early '90s. I am not hoping for anybody to transfer. I like our prospective roster as it is. I am merely stating that somebody leaving - through transfer or going to the NBA - is a necessary precondition for adding another 2007 recruit.
|
|
|
Post by Nitrorebel on Apr 19, 2006 13:04:31 GMT -5
I'm with Chris. Regarding "over-recruiting", I see it as 1). All good coaches do 3), and 2) to a lesser extent (esp if they are new coaches).
|
|
YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,494
|
Post by YB on Apr 19, 2006 13:07:51 GMT -5
I'd like there to be no transfers too, but if someone's not happy or not a good fit behind the scenes and we don't know about it, it might be beneficial for that person. That said, we could have a monster roster just if everyone stays and contributes.
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Apr 19, 2006 14:41:35 GMT -5
SF,
I agree that transferring may be a positive for the player. However, as I mentioned in my previous post, I would argue that it is never a positive for the program.
Also, I made it clear in the previous post that I was NOT blaming the staff in any way. What I am saying is that I hope that no one sees transfers as a positive thing, just because they open up a roster slot for a hotshot recruit. Instead of just accepting transfers as a necessary evil, as fans we should establish the expectation that everyone involved work very hard to prevent players from transferring.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,435
|
Post by prhoya on Apr 19, 2006 14:48:23 GMT -5
I'll believe JW is on scholarship when the administration makes a formal announcement, not before.
|
|
Jack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
Posts: 3,411
|
Post by Jack on Apr 19, 2006 15:08:07 GMT -5
I'll believe JW is on scholarship when the administration makes a formal announcement, not before. Don't hold your breath for an announcement. What reason would there be for Wallace not to be on scholarship at this point? Would anyone feel good about a program that would not give a scholarship to a student-athlete like him (when a scholarship is currently available)? Argh. This discussion never fails to make me angry.
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
Posts: 4,139
|
Post by RBHoya on Apr 19, 2006 15:19:16 GMT -5
It's going to happen when you're an elite level program (which we are on our way back to being). You recruit a lot of top kids, and not all of them are going to get significant PT. It's an inevitability. I don't have any numbers but I would guess total transfers in DI hoops is a lot more now than it was like 20 years ago. Basketball is big business now and these "Top 150" types usually have aspirations of playing ball for a living in some capacity. So when it turns out that they are not getting to showcase or improve themselves, they're going to try their hand somewhere else.
Transfers are like divorces--nobody likes to see them happen, you wish it could be worked out without it, but sometimes it's for the best for both parties, so it's not worth making that much fuss over. It just happens, and while it's unfortunate, life goes on.
I don't have any problem with the staff recruiting despite the fact that there are no scholarships "available"at this exact moment in time. That's what you have to do to be an elite program. You can never stop recruiting, because you never know when a roster spot might open up. That's college ball at the highest level. I am uncomfortable with verbal committments being taken before there are roster spots open, as Pitino did last year, Calhoun did this year, etc. But the fact that they are out there watching players, talking to players, letting them know we're interested, gauging their interest etc. is fine, even though as of right now we're out of scholarships until the 2008 class. Not doing so would just be poor planning.
In a few weeks the transfer announcement(s) will come, and everybody will get all surprised and make a big fuss about it and the implications and such. It just happens.... I agree with what SF said, its going to happen at a rate of about 1/year or so, and it isn't necessarily anybody's fault(what is it with people and their compulsion to always blame somebody, anyway?) it just happens, and if you wanna be a big time program, you roll with it. We could recruit all academically-oriented players, who cared only about getting a Georgetown degree and who didn't mind riding the pine in the interim. We could pattern ourselves after an Ivy League hoops team, with a bunch of guys just happy to be here. But if we did that, we wouldn't be an elite program. If we want to be a Final 4 caliber team, we need to constantly recruit the best players possible, and that's inevitably going to lead to some transfers. Let's not get all shocked and stuff that its going to happen or that the staff is prepared for it to happen.
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
Posts: 4,139
|
Post by RBHoya on Apr 19, 2006 15:24:37 GMT -5
I'll believe JW is on scholarship when the administration makes a formal announcement, not before. Don't hold your breath for an announcement. What reason would there be for Wallace not to be on scholarship at this point? Would anyone feel good about a program that would not give a scholarship to a student-athlete like him (when a scholarship is currently available)? Argh. This discussion never fails to make me angry. Agreed that it won't happen. IMO, in the most blunt of terms, Jon is on scholarship but the ambiguity around his situation enables the staff to be on the recruiting trail without too much message board gossip like "wtfomg whos transfering?". That kind of stuff surrounding the program is just distracting and bad for the team. Obviously it's not fool proof though, because some people just aren't sharp enough to put 2 + 2 together on their own (no offense anybody).
|
|
CO_Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,109
|
Post by CO_Hoya on Apr 19, 2006 15:26:51 GMT -5
SF, I agree that transferring may be a positive for the player. However, as I mentioned in my previous post, I would argue that it is never a positive for the program. Also, I made it clear in the previous post that I was NOT blaming the staff in any way. What I am saying is that I hope that no one sees transfers as a positive thing, just because they open up a roster slot for a hotshot recruit. Instead of just accepting transfers as a necessary evil, as fans we should establish the expectation that everyone involved work very hard to prevent players from transferring. I'll be honest, I can't follow your logic here. If a player will benefit from a transfer (which you allow in your first sentence), how is a positive for a program to try to prevent this hypothetical player from transferring? Wouldn't this be a bad thing? Or are you arguing that a program should only recruit players that won't want to transfer? What can a coaching staff do to ensure this? Are there any college programs that don't ever have kids transfer out?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2006 16:23:14 GMT -5
What I find interesting about the whole scholarship situation is that it isn't public. So much is made about athletic department's and their budgets, what programs make money, which don't, etc. these days, that I'm surprised there isn't some sort of official document stating definitively who is and is not on an athletic scholarship.
I completely understand there are privacy issues involved, how it really is none of our business who gets what aid from the school (which I completely agree with) and so on, but for some reason it just seems odd that this isn't something the NCAA and its member institutions have filed somewhere for public use.
|
|
SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png)
Posts: 747
|
Post by SirSaxa on Apr 19, 2006 17:47:32 GMT -5
A few points in response to various posts.
1. I am not in favor of encouraging tranfers.
2. I do recognize the reality that they usually happen (1 or 2/year) and for a wide variety or reasons.
3. I don't see transfers as always a negative thing for a program. There are lots of legitimate reasons why kids want to transfer.... more playing time, easier academics, and being closer to home are among them.
4. Taking guys like Sead and Crawford as examples, neither of these guys get any time on the court. Guys LIKE that might PREFER to transfer so they could get more PT. BUT, both of those guys have friends on the team, they like GU, they work hard on the court and in the classroom, and they want to stay. Sead has stayed through two Head Coaches. He has lived up to his responsibilities and the school has lived up to theirs. I believe the same applies with Tyler. Maybe he'll surprise us and get a lot of PT next year. But if he doesn't, he should still stay if he wants to. In their case, it is fine that they stay. Someone else in their situation might not wish to stay.
Ray Reed and Cornelio did not want to stay. They chose to go elsewhere. That is their right. Nothing wrong with that. AND, it did not hurt team chemistry, cohesiveness, continuity or anything else. ACTUALLY, it is GOOD for the team because it is better if unhappy guys leave than trying to talk them into staying.
I hope that clarifies things a bit. And from everything I read, hear and see about JT3, he is a classy guy with a lot of integrity and I believe he is going to handle things the right way.
|
|