ahoya3
Member
Former hoop club president and 22 year season ticket holder
Posts: 60
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Post by ahoya3 on Nov 1, 2004 10:57:46 GMT -5
With all due respect to MCI and SF, I am not a pessimist. I have been a faithful fan for three decades and have supported the team financially and with my presence at home games and on the road. Having said that, I must strongly agree with the unrealistic evaluation of the talent on the team. I am very optimistic that couch Thompson is going to turn things around both during the season and on the recruiting trail. My point was to point out that there should not be expectations for this squad. Green is a big timer. Girabunda may be a player. Bowman, when his head is screwed on straight, could probably start for several Big East teams. Owens would be a 7-8 man on almost all the teams. I think 8-20 is not unrealistic. Again, I think to think we will be successful with this talent is doing a disservice to the new coach and his staff. Give them time and a couple recruiting years.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Nov 1, 2004 11:32:39 GMT -5
It sounds like core fundamentals are being addressed in practice which doesn't sound fun to watch, but I think it is exactly what we need. Basic fundamental basketball has been lacking for the last number of years at G'Town (and as a whole seems to be falling around the country). This is definitely going to build the foundation upon which we can build a top notch program.
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GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,083
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Post by GUHoya07 on Nov 1, 2004 11:47:06 GMT -5
Sorry to nitpick and be annoying ahoya3, but thats the second time you've called him Girabunda or Guirabunda. Just can't help correcting stuff like this, It's Guibunda.
I can understand your concerns and not wanting to have too many expectations for this season, but you also have to be careful with going overboard and basically assuming that our season is going to be a disaster and that we have no ability to compete. I respect your concerns about not wanting to put too many expectations on this team, but its also doing them a disservice if you start saying they have no talent and this season is doomed. We will definitely struggle at times this season, but I'm hoping to see positive things and maybe surprise some people. It would just be nice to see the masses of Georgetown fans step away from the edge of the cliff and find something postitive to think about.
It's ok to be a little optimistic and have hope that the season will turn out better than most expect. If we have no hope then why even play the season. I know that there has been a lot of dissapointment over the last few seasons and fans are scared of not having their expectations met, but as long as we aren't predicting a 24-4 record and a run to the sweet 16 I think some optimism is a good thing.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,803
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 1, 2004 12:09:21 GMT -5
ahoya, just to be clear, calling someone a pessimist shouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. I wasn't questioning your dedication. Nor am I going to blast III or the players if we do have an 8-20 season. The staff will get their time, at least from me.
That said, I can't see where you're coming from. There's a lot of parity in college basketball, except at the very top.
Coaching has a huge influence in how players play. It's hard to evaluate players independent of coaching in any true team sport, esp. at the college level.
I went through this whole exercise with my San Diego Chargers this year. The schedule looked harder. The team had made a few good off-season moves, but all they seemed to add was a quarterback who wouldn't play, a DE that was raw, a linebacker who couldn't start on the Texans. Oh, and a defensive coordinator. He couldn't alter that much could he?
They unloaded a bunch of malcontents, and change the attitude.
All in all, though, they changed coaches, they had a high turnover of players, but no big names came in. They changed the atmosphere. They've avoided injuries, and they are 5-3.
Just a thought.
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Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,304
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Post by Cambridge on Nov 1, 2004 12:13:22 GMT -5
I posted this before under the poll, but I am not, never have been, nor ever will be afraid of:
Rutgers, West Virginia, BC, Seton Hall, Providence, Notre Dame, Villanova, St. Johns or Pitt
Yes, I included Pitt. You know why, because if we play hard and we play smart, I honestly believe we can hang with them. Sure all those teams have great players, but I am not intimidated by them at all, and I would hope that our current team isn't either. All these games are winnable, or perhaps for the pessimists out there I should say I have firm and unwaivering faith that many of these teams will choke on any given night. I'm not saying we are going to beat all these teams, but I am saying we have a damn good chance against any and all of them. Most of them are one man shows, and I trust JTIII to exploit their weaknesses and turn a bunch of heads as he clocks the unsuspecting one after another...We have seen a much lesser regarded Hoya team sneak up and dismantle Seton Hall (when nationally ranked) and BC (when nationally ranked) by nearly 20 more than a couple times in the last few years. They never ever scare me. Ever. Let's go hoyas. Play hard, play smart, and we will surprise people.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,468
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Post by MCIGuy on Nov 1, 2004 12:50:24 GMT -5
^^^^
What he said.
I am convinced there is plenty of enough talent on THIS team to compete with almost any other BE squad. The problem in my eyes lays in a new system that has to be learned, lack of experience and perhaps confidence. But outside of UConn, the Cuse and Pitt there is not anyone else in the Big East that I think is far better.
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Post by RaleighHoya on Nov 1, 2004 13:18:09 GMT -5
Interesting thread. GU does not have a boatload of talent, but to say there is none is a bit overdramatic. I will never buy into the CBS rankings of anything. This team has enough talent to compete in the Big East, but not win it. Obviously Cuse and UConn are pretty loaded, but we would easily have players that would start on some of the other teams, which has been said before. I would not be shocked to see us pull off some upsets this year, and if the administration would put some support behind promoting the team, we could steal some home wins.
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GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,083
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Post by GUHoya07 on Nov 1, 2004 13:26:03 GMT -5
The comment on the administration is right on. They do absolutely nothing to promote the basketball program and it is devastating for support. They need to wake up and realize how important it is to start marketing and promoting the team the way it needs to be promoted. As far as I'm concerned it's a disgrace how much they have ignored the importance of basktball and the need to promote it effectively.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,803
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 1, 2004 13:38:04 GMT -5
Regarding an 8-20 season. I'm not going to say unrealistic, but I will say that's definitely in the lower range of possibility. If I look at this team as if it was last year's team...
We have four absolute gimmes this year:
Citadel, San Jose State, Norfolk St. and Howard.
Even being pessimistic, we have 13 games, that if we won, it'd be considered an upset of fair significance:
Illinois, at Pittsburgh, UConn, at Nova, at Cuse, Notre Dame, at BC, Seton Hall, at Rutgers, at Notre Dame, Villanove, at UConn, Providence.
We have seven borderline games (not counting the Rainbow Classic.
Temple, at Davidson, Penn St., Rutgers, St. John's, at St. John's, West Virginia.
Then there's the Classic. Every team in that classic counts as a borderline game, except UAB, which is probably an upset. We'd only likely face a good UAB squad if we had already won two games, making it a success anyway. So I'm placing all three games as borderline.
So the tally: 4 easy wins, 13 would-be upsets, and 10 coin-toss type of games.
The chance of losing an easy win is almost nil. These guys never come close. We've probably got a 20X better chance of beating Cuse at Cuse than losing to Norfolk State.
With 13 would-be upsets, I think it is reasonable to grab one of them. Split the borderlines down the middle, and I see 10 wins right there.
If this team is no better, I think 10 wins is reasonable. But if they improve, I could see them winning 8 of the borderlines or more, and grabbing a few more upsets -- maybe giving us a shot at the NIT.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Nov 1, 2004 13:51:00 GMT -5
A few things to add to this thread and some of the points above: 1. Again, big THANK YOU to those who provided updates from the practice. Might not seem like much to you, but for us unable to be around the program, every update/detail is much appreciated. 2. Mentioned it in Big East Coaches Poll but outside of the top 4 teams in Conference, the fact is it's usually a wide open race to see who steps up or who steps backward. I'm not predicting the Hoyas will be an upper echelon team in the conference but I'm not limiting what they can do either. 3. For those saying we have "no talent" and in DFW's case he feels we haven't had any in a long time, I would like to bring up some major faults with that thinking. I think last year is something we can all agree upon in terms of talent--but much was due to the departure of Mike to NBA, and transfers, as mentioned. But how many games against top teams in the Big East have we seen GU not only competitive but in a position to win and lose because of poor COACHING? Remember in recent years our so called "lack of talent" played toe to toe with Syracuse--National Champs, Duke--perennial top 5 team in a game where Duke alum Jay Bilas even mentioned that if Mike Sweetney hadn't been screwed by questionable officiating, we'd have more than likely WON-and at Cameron Indoor Stadium. Pitt, Notre Dame, and UConn--have all been up for grabs in certain games in past 3 years as well--UConn game in Okafor's FR season Hoyas should've won and we've had opportunity after opportunity to beat Pitt and ND recently. We did beat UNC on the road in an arena Duke lost to them 2 weeks prior, and made constant competitive showings, only to lose because of some awful strategic moves, and just overall incompetent coaching. TALENT isn't as important as fundamentals and team chemistry in basketball. I agree completely with DFW when he mentions the transfers and poor recruiting during JT's slide and transfers during Esh's tenure. That kills a program. I do think Hoyas had good ball players and the fact the Big East Coaches picked the Hoyas to win their Division in consecutive seasons only to see GU end up in the NIT--(one year I thought we were wrongly left out of NCAA--the 9-7 league record year and BET loss to Miami season 3 years ago). Tony Bethel was a solid player at GU but all of the sudden is a "Player to Watch" because he's at NC State. Why? They've gone to the NCAA and play in a conference that promotes their players and league as if it's the greatest thing ever---when the truth is they are dominated by 1-2 teams yearly. The Big East is and will always be a better overall league in my opinion because each team has players that are capable. To me GU has plenty of talent to be a good basketball team this season. Now when I say good, I'm talking competitive with every team and one that will get better as season goes on. Question is how quickly will they pick up the new system/teachings of the Staff and will those efforts by the Staff be successful?? If so, you can see quicker level of improvement, if not, you will need to recruit a year or 2 more to get kids that fit that system. I'm of the opinion the FR have the advantage because they don't have to learn anything new--they came in with new coach/style of play so they'll get acclimated easier. If the Vets can adjust and step up their games/leadership, it could be a good team by January. If not, we'll need the reinforcements to help next season and keep building. But to write off the Hoyas saying they are in desperate need of talent is wrong. I see a system predicted on movement and sharing the basketball and lots of kids who are capable. Difference to me is that they seem to really be having fun and like their situation and in the past I got the feeling that most of the team didn't believe in who lead them and what they were doing--which showed in the results. If a team with not much belief in their Coaches and talent (last year was a very limited team) could be in position to beat Syracuse and Pitt, why can't they play with them with more talent to help?? Jeff Green and Cornelio Guibunda are better than what Hoyas lost to graduation and I'm a huge fan of Tyler Crawford's game and think his attitude will be something we all feed off--intensity and diving around with constant energy. Wallace from all reports is the equal/better than Causey, and we have a 7'3 guy to use at times--instead of playing 6'7 guys to defend the post. Can't be worse than last season in my opinion simply because we have more parts to add to a team that believes they can do things and are happy with the CHANGE of Coaches.
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Post by VolHoya on Nov 1, 2004 14:28:58 GMT -5
It's hard for me to believe anybody would think this season's squad is worse than last season's, considering you replace CFree, Omari and Esh with Green, Crawford, Guibunda, Hibbert and JT3.
Coaching is by far the most important element separating the 17-11 teams from the 6-22s. And JT3 could come top MCI blindfolded and win the sideline showdown with E.
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CAHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,598
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Post by CAHoya07 on Nov 1, 2004 15:48:54 GMT -5
It's hard for me to believe anybody would think this season's squad is worse than last season's, considering you replace CFree, Omari and Esh with Green, Crawford, Guibunda, Hibbert and JT3. Coaching is by far the most important element separating the 17-11 teams from the 6-22s. And JT3 could come top MCI blindfolded and win the sideline showdown with E. I agree that coaching is probably the biggest factor for success in NCAA. However, I think a lack of talent can severely limit a team. I mean, last year, we got blown off the court by UConn, Duke, even Seton Hall. We simply could not compete on their level, and I don't think better coaching last year would have gotten us that much closer. Which brings us to this season. No offense to our players, but I don't think we have the talent, bulk, or athleticism to sniff a NCAA bid this year. Even if JT III proves to be a coaching savior, this year could be rough at times. But I think if we make enough progress this year, and hopefully pull off a big upset or two, we can set the stage for a run at it next year. I can see people's arguments about us possibly being worse than last year, with our star, Riley, and big man Freeman, graduating. But I don't agree. I'll admit the possibility that we could be worse, but I still think we'll win more games this season. With the new coach and attitude, I have reason to think we'll play more as a team this year. Hopefully this year will be Brandon Bowman's coming out party as well. The keys to this season will be the freshmen that replace them, and the new coaching system under JT III. Who knows what's gonna happen this year. That's what makes this season one of the most intriguing of recent years.
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Post by RaleighHoya on Nov 1, 2004 16:04:28 GMT -5
That is the key. I see us improving, because I think we have more talent with Jeff Green, Hibbert, Wallace, Cornelio, and Crawford than we lost with Riley and CFree. Riley will hurt, but I think we will be better. Not so much better as to go to the Big Dance, but maybe the NIT. I think we will be fun to watch at times, and other times it will want to make me cry.
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nodak89
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Roy Roy Royyyyy!!!
Posts: 1,881
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Post by nodak89 on Nov 1, 2004 16:18:02 GMT -5
I think we will be fun to watch at times, and other times it will want to make me cry. That would be an improvement from just crying like last year. Well, that and swearing. "Did Daddy learn that big word at Georgetown?"
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Post by Fan Of The Game on Nov 1, 2004 17:13:14 GMT -5
An entire thread about the open practice, and no one mentions the macaroni? Mmmm....macaroni...
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Gold Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Gold Hoya on Nov 1, 2004 18:23:22 GMT -5
An entire thread about the open practice, and no one mentions the macaroni? Mmmm....macaroni... I move away from DC, and not only to they hire a new coach but they serve macaroni? Figures.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Nov 9, 2004 8:10:14 GMT -5
know this is late but one thing when i went to get some food and came back after watching for a few minutes of the five on five my comment to those eating was we just passed the ball quickly in 20 seconds more than i remember passing all last year quick sharp passes we will overperform and surprise
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Post by HoyaLawya on Nov 9, 2004 18:21:52 GMT -5
Try to beg, borrow or steal a video of the Air Force vs. UNC game from the NCAA tournament. Your comment about the crisp passing is making me click my heels in anticipation of seeing a PO-aware Hoya squad. This year could be FUN. UNC was kept off-balance for so much of that 1st round game, it was amazing. Even their games vs. NC State couldn't prepare them for what they encountered. AFA should have won it. Passing, back door cuts, multiple touches til finding the open guy then swish! Great game. I honestly think lack of manpower is what did the Falcons in during the final quarter. UNC could rotate in fresh legs ...... Joe Scott had a couple players he needed to keep in for pretty much the entire game -- a much longer stretch than even he probably wanted to. But when you're a military academy, you can't exactly recruit a whole squadron of stars like Tobacco Road.
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