Georgetown - St. Francis 11/23/24 Discussion

[bluegray79]

as at the game today. Agree that 3100 sounds quite a bit over, but it was pretty empty. Without the band playing and the gimmiky music and dance cam fun, it would have been pretty dead in there. I look forward to the day when fans drown out the instructions yelled by coaches to their players.

A couple of observations:

Liked a lot of what I saw in streaks today:

much better ball movement, shot selection, energy and urgency on both ends, bigs getting a touch on the ball most set offensive plays

Team was better at both ends when Sorber was in

Peavy and Epps very active on D; rest of team overall up a notch or 2 on D; forced lots of TOs. Looking comfortable, shooting well

OTOH - we will get absolutely killed and losing by lots if we don't/can't get our 3-point D up to BE good. Xavier, UConn, St. John's, MQ, Creighton -- even DePaul -- will feast on the slack 3-point space and uneven coverage we give them. Plus, we can't have prolonged streaks where we don't score and they run off a 10-13 point string. A bigger, stronger, more athletic and disciplined team that can shoot the three will eat us alive

I feel that this group is, after only 5 games, beginning to show signs of being familiar with their teammates, and it shows in their hustle, their passing, their getting the ball to open shooters, getting the ball into the paint, rebounding, running the floor. It's not consistent by any means, but there are streaks where something good is beginning to show

Hopefully they will keep using the OOC schedule to develop the synergy and sustained defensive focus that will have us ready to compete in the Big East -- let's go Hoyas!!!!!!

[jwp91]

Nov 23, 2024 20:51:11 GMT -5 bills said:

Nov 23, 2024 17:21:27 GMT -5 95hoya said:

3. Epps was the MVP today.  Peavy played a great game and may end up the MVP for the season over Sorber.  But today Epps was the MVP.  When St. Francis made their rons at the end of the first half and midway in the second half, Epps hit a 3 to take the wind out of their sails.  He did that in the flow of the offense, not hogging the ball.  For all five games he has taken the shots our offensive scheme gives him. And he has given us assists and rebounds.  Many of the posters on this board have nothing good to say about Epps.  And there was grudging acknowledgement for his defense today.  He had four steals in the second half!  Cooley correctly called his defense elite when the totally shut down StFrancis to close out the game.  No buts, elite defense. And totally committed to playing in the scope of the offense paving us high percentage shots, assists, and rebounds.

As I think about the play of the roster, Epps is one of the bright spots. He has done exactly what he has been asked. He has stepped up his defense tremendously. He is shooting over 36% from three pointers. He has clearly taken a stronger leadership role. We wanted a player who would play within the offense and that is exactly who he has become.

[blueandgray]

Nov 23, 2024 19:00:55 GMT -5 mapei said:

My biggest takeaway from this game is that our starters are WAY better than the subs. Cooley seems to substitute a lot and there was a big dropoff whenever he did.

Agreed….you could see that in this game. I thought going into the season that we might be deep….feel a little differently now. Julio has a ways to go. L…as does Burks.

[mapei]

Thanks for the positive comments about Epps. He played great today.

[jwp91]

Interesting that Mack was the leading rebounder with 7, including 2 offensive rebounds.

[hoyaroc]

I need to see more of Sorber. Epps is playing well.

[hoyasaxa2003]

As for this game, we had some great moments, and a lot of bad moments. Someone made the point that last year we really didn't have any good defensive moments, and that's a good point. The problem is that if we have those bad moments against better teams in the Big East, we will get crushed and get down by so much that it will be difficult to climb out of it. Our starters, for the most part played very well today.

Malik Mack really is not showing me much yet, though I do think he has excellent speed and some talent. His turnovers are still bad ones that often lead to points on the other end, but he did have 3 steals today on defense. But, he's got to play smarter.

Sorber really needs more touches against these bad teams. Cooley said he was about 80% today from the stomach bug he had.

Peavy was outstanding today. His defense was really amazing today, even if it was against a bad team. And he brought it on defense. Would we have won this game without Peavy? Maybe not.

Epps also played an excellent game today and showed some really good defense.

Thus far, the bench just isn't doing much. It would really be nice if one of the new recruits could contribute, especially from three. I do think a lot of our young guys have potential, I am just not sure they are going to be big contributors this year.

I am not excited by this result. Being down to St. Francis is never a good thing, but ultimately we won by 17. But, it's still a win, and by a decent margin. And those moments of good playing make me think there's something there if we can replicate that for most of a game.

For what it's worth, in his comments, Ed Cooley said for a rotation he said he thinks the magic number on rotations for most coaches is 8, maybe 9.

[prhoya]

No word on Drew Mckenna? Why didn’t he play? His turn with the bug?

[calhoya]

Nov 24, 2024 0:53:21 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

As for this game, we had some great moments, and a lot of bad moments. Someone made the point that last year we really didn't have any good defensive moments, and that's a good point. The problem is that if we have those bad moments against better teams in the Big East, we will get crushed and get down by so much that it will be difficult to climb out of it. Our starters, for the most part played very well today.

Malik Mack really is not showing me much yet, though I do think he has excellent speed and some talent. His turnovers are still bad ones that often lead to points on the other end, but he did have 3 steals today on defense. But, he's got to play smarter.

Sorber really needs more touches against these bad teams. Cooley said he was about 80% today from the stomach bug he had.

Peavy was outstanding today. His defense was really amazing today, even if it was against a bad team. And he brought it on defense. Would we have won this game without Peavy? Maybe not.

Epps also played an excellent game today and showed some really good defense.

Thus far, the bench just isn't doing much. It would really be nice if one of the new recruits could contribute, especially from three. I do think a lot of our young guys have potential, I am just not sure they are going to be big contributors this year.

I am not excited by this result. Being down to St. Francis is never a good thing, but ultimately we won by 17. But, it's still a win, and by a decent margin. And those moments of good playing make me think there's something there if we can replicate that for most of a game.

For what it's worth, in his comments, Ed Cooley said for a rotation he said he thinks the magic number on rotations for most coaches is 8, maybe 9.

Agree with this. Maybe it was the preseason hype but so far the most disappointing player to me has been Mack. He is clearly talented but often out of control. Had one really nice finish yesterday but most of the time his drives to the basket result in either a miss, block or TO. He is by no means failing to contribute, but the expectations for him are very high--as set by the program when he was recruited-- and he needs to play under control and not force shots. Also think Fielder is coming on and will be a positive contributor on a team which lacks shooting. He is never going to be a + defensive player at the 4 but he is contributing more than either Burks or Julius. Need Mulready and Williams to find their shots. So far the 4 subs in the rotation are a major drop-off from the starters at the offensive end of the court.

[Loyal Hoya]

Nov 23, 2024 20:51:11 GMT -5 bills said:

Nov 23, 2024 17:21:27 GMT -5 95hoya said:

It’s very alarming that we were in a tight game at home against the #340 team on Kenpom, one of the worst in all of D1. We are still so far away from being mediocre that it’s very concerning and frustrating. Not surprising but this looks like more of the same that we’ve seen from the team in recent years.

1. We were favored to win this game by 17.5, according to the last spread I saw, and won by 17.  Did not cover the spread, but did not collapse as many posters are suggesting.  We won the game at very close to what was expected.

2. We played several good stretches of defense, and several bad stretches.  For the last few years we did not play any good stretches, so this is a significant step forward.  For about the last 7 minutes I believe we allowed one basket and they had 4 free throws.  Their top scorer got hot in the first half and got them the lead.  I believe he scored one basket in the second half.  The trend line on defense is solidly in the right direction.

3. Epps was the MVP today.  Peavy played a great game and may end up the MVP for the season over Sorber.  But today Epps was the MVP.  When St. Francis made their rons at the end of the first half and midway in the second half, Epps hit a 3 to take the wind out of their sails.  He did that in the flow of the offense, not hogging the ball.  For all five games he has taken the shots our offensive scheme gives him. And he has given us assists and rebounds.  Many of the posters on this board have nothing good to say about Epps.  And there was grudging acknowledgement for his defense today.  He had four steals in the second half!  Cooley correctly called his defense elite when the totally shut down StFrancis to close out the game.  No buts, elite defense. And totally committed to playing in the scope of the offense paving us high percentage shots, assists, and rebounds.

4. there are relationships between players and coaches and between coaches.  We don’t know the background of those relationships.  Until you know that, you have no understanding on why Cooley made the comment he made. He immediately apologized.  If your sole goal is to find ways to criticize Colley- go nuts. If Illinois is really Editeded off, they can show that the next time we play them.  I am sick and tired of posters who only want to find fault.

5. We did what we were expected to do, we won the game by a wide margin.  We can do a lot better.  We will need to do a lot better to have a decent record in the Big East.  I think we are on a good track, and I’d like it to be better.  But I am tired of the posters whose only motivation is to find fault.

He made a mistake, and he apologized for it. Everybody makes mistakes. Let's be clear, however, that he is a representative of the Georgetown University and needs to do better.

[bills]

Agreed

[hoyariv71]

Biggest observation, we just aren’t a good 3pt shooting team, so we will get leads but miss a lot to allow teams back into games. We need to look at Sorber to make sure we don’t get into scoring droughts. I would expect a lot of close games this, don’t think we will our margin of victories will be much.

[Ranch Dressing]

After watching the first 4 games, in my opinion, our success as a team will come down to one crucial development. Malik Mack. He has struggled to find a consistent rhythm and is not finishing efficiently at the rim.

If Mack gets it going, we can do okay in the Big East. If not, the entire team will struggle.

Of course, there are several other areas of development needed. But I think this is the biggest one out of the gate.

[SFHoya99]

Nov 24, 2024 17:26:39 GMT -5 Ranch Dressing said:

After watching the first 4 games, in my opinion, our success as a team will come down to one crucial development. Malik Mack. He has struggled to find a consistent rhythm and is not finishing efficiently at the rim.

If Mack gets it going, we can do okay in the Big East. If not, the entire team will struggle.

Of course, there are several other areas of development needed. But I think this is the biggest one out of the gate.

This and any team defensive improvement. I think both the young centers and the rotations can improve.

[Massholya]

I may be wrong but I felt like Mack was out for a significant portion of their comeback in the first half. Only watched once so could be wrong. Anyone have access to the player +\- stats for the game?

[EtomicB]

Nov 24, 2024 19:45:37 GMT -5 Massholya said:

I may be wrong but I felt like Mack was out for a significant portion of their comeback in the first half. Only watched once so could be wrong. Anyone have access to the player +\- stats for the game?

-3.6 on Sports Reference


www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2024-11-23-00-georgetown.html

[capcenterhoya]

Three players are carrying the entire team. Burks is at least contributing defensively, but the rest have been a liablity on both ends. Mack may have a "pedigree", but he's shooting 39% from 2 and turning it over almost a quarter of his possessions against mostly low major competition. Fielder is completely lost defensively and has not found his stroke. I think Mulready and Caleb will be nice players eventually, but the confidence is not there right now. Julius needs an offseason. If the big 3 are all on, we can probably win a few games in the Big East. But unless guys make fast strides, it's going to be another rough conference season.

[michaelgrahmstylie]

We have to do a much better job defending the 3!

[conshyhoya]

I thought we came out focused and once we got that 15 point lead lost that focus. Against good teams we can't do that. We need to be locked in the whole time. But unlike years past we regained it and basically shut them down a good portion of the end of the game ending up winning comfortably. Not quite the doom and gloom some want to portray it as. Pretty much every team in the BE had games where it was tight against a weaker opponent mid way through and into the second half and won comfortably when it was all said and done.

Some other things. Burks shouldn't be allowed to shoot unless he is within 2 feet of the basket and no one around along with put backs. Good to see the players are getting on the same page though and finally got an alley-oop to go down. Malik seems to be the Epps of last year so far but at least that makes Epps a way better and more efficient player. Hopefully he can keep improving to where we have two dangerous guards. Probably Epps best defensive game as a Hoya. Our defensive rebounding needs to improve vastly. We are getting absolutely killed there and to me is the biggest issue so far. There are plenty of others but to me this is where are defense seems to be the worst and seems like an automatic 3 from the opposing team. Our 3 point shooting is never going to be elite but should probably end up somewhere in the 32-34% range. Peavy probably is going to drop down but still improve on his last year numbers. Mack and Fielder will most likely improve with Epps staying the same if he continues to play the way he has. If he reverts to more of last year he will probably fall off some too. The guys that haven't hit any are bound to get up to at least the 20% but overall the bulk of our shots beyond the arc will come from the starters with Fielder being a starter.

[DudeSlade]

Generally agree with the tenor of the comments here. One thing I'll note is it seems that Cooley saw this game as one to try to get our younger/bench guys more run. We are going to need them at some point this year and it'll be hard to get them experience against better teams. We got up big in the first 10 minutes with our starters, seemed to give the bench a lot of run in the middle 20 minutes, and when the game was still close, got our starters back in to close out the game and then went on a run again. I generally like the idea of getting experience when you can. It also shows a lot of trust in our starters/upperclassmen to turn it on. Hope that experience helps us later in the year.

A few other observations from watching the equivalent of 2-3 games so far this year:
- Epps is much better than last year. Just more mature, more disciplined, and playing within the system. Also, as Cooley was saying, he's playing defense this year.
- Peavy is our best player. Did not expect he could score like this before he joined us. Will come in and out of games a bit more than I'd like, but when on, he raises the level of the team considerably.
- Sorber is our most talented. Kid just needs time to develop. But at this rate, I'll be Editeded if he's not Big East Freshmen of the Year. Gotta find more ways to get him the ball in more places than just the lowblock.
- Julius is too strong in the lower body (looks way thicker in the legs than Sorber) to not be posting up just as strong and taking it to them. Gotta get in shape though as he has no stamina. With more stamina, he'll be in position more often and able to spell Sorber with another low post presence.
- Mulready and Williams have to go shoot 1000 3s a day or something crazy. Like their potential and they remind me of a Sapp or Mosley for what they can become, but like those guys, they need their offense to develop.
- Fielder would be so much more impactful if his shot starts falling. It looks good. He takes it at opportune times. But it doesn't fall. It would open up post-ups and drives, if he could hit it.
- I just hope the rumored NIL for Mack isn't accurate. He reminds me of Dante Harris without the clutch-ness. Very athletic kid, but I am surprised after a year of seemingly successful college ball that he has so little understanding of how to operate on the court. I'd be understanding of trouble adjusting against a UConn or Creighton or some other Big East level talent, but against St. Francis, I'd have expected someone that highly regarded coming in would have a better game.


There's a lot here to like about the makeup of this team. I can see in 1-2 years with development, how this is a competitive team. Credit to Cooley also for getting kids with a good mentality. I like the general fight by all. This year, though, seems to be one we'll be lucky to get to .500 unless Mack starts playing like a top transfer and Fielder finds his shot. We'll have to ride our starters for Big East victories.