Eisenhower:This PIece of Ground

[SSHoya]

Not one to hide his light under a bushel, President Trump keeps telling us that the U.S. economy has never performed better than under his brilliant stewardship. He does so even though the economic data tell a very different story. He also does so even though there are growing indications that his economic policies are mortgaging our economic future.

Since assuming office in January 2017, the economy has grown at only a marginally faster pace than it did during the Obama administration. This has been the case despite the big tax boost the economy received in 2017. At the same time, stock market prices, which are President Trump’s favorite economic indicator, have increased at around half the pace that they did in President Obama’s first three years in office.

Meanwhile, because of the large tax cut, the economy has developed a twin budget deficit and trade deficit problem that threatens the country’s longer run economic growth prospects.

www.aei.org/articles/so-much-for-the-trump-economic-miracle/

An AEI Resident Fellow is not exactly a liberal or leftist.

(Desmond Lachman is a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. He was formerly a deputy director in the International Monetary Fund’s Policy Development and Review Department and the chief emerging market economic strategist at Salomon Smith Barney).

[hoyajinx]

Nov 1, 2024 10:37:04 GMT -5 happyhoya1979 said:

All of you, the best intellectual treatment of Trump's economic program, which includes analysis across all four years, not just cherry picked time frames as the Brookings information you cite  does, is Arthur Lafffers's book The Trump Economic Miracle. The point the book really captures is how Trump actually had two economic miracles, the first after the low growth Obama years and the second after the Pandemic. The book has all the key metrics in full perspective. You can get it at amazon and be improving your minds by the end of the day.

I refer liberals to this book all the time. It serves the same purpose as Alex Epstein's Fossil Future when confronting misguided green activists.

Trump wasn’t president after the pandemic so he shouldn’t get credit for any post-pandemic recovery. After all, you put the cutoff date for inflation and whatnot at Biden’s first day in office. If you’re going to blame him for everything after that date irrespective of context, he should get credit for everything good that happened after. Anything less would be entirely dishonest.

[happyhoya1979]

Read the book, decide for yourself.

It will be an experience a lot like I have every Saturday when my Economistsubscription arrives. It has a globalist outlook with almost a religious fever for free trade but it is the single best source of journalism there is with all the facts and information on every important issue marshalled in a manner that you can decide for yourself.

[SSHoya]

Yet as he leaves after his one-term tenure, Trump has become the first president since Herbert Hoover during the Great Depression to depart office with fewer jobs in the country than when he entered.

Trump's Economic Legacy

Economists say Trump’s economic legacy will be defined by his failure in leadership during the COVID-19 pandemic that exacerbated the financial downturn, domestic policies that overwhelmingly benefited the wealthy, and international trade policies that hurt U.S. industry while simultaneously alienating allies.

abcnews.go.com/Business/trumps-economic-legacy/story?id=74760051

[happyhoya1979]

Nov 1, 2024 10:56:49 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

Yet as he leaves after his one-term tenure, Trump has become the first president since Herbert Hoover during the Great Depression to depart office with fewer jobs in the country than when he entered.

Trump's Economic Legacy

Economists say Trump’s economic legacy will be defined by his failure in leadership during the COVID-19 pandemic that exacerbated the financial downturn, domestic policies that overwhelmingly benefited the wealthy, and international trade policies that hurt U.S. industry while simultaneously alienating allies.

abcnews.go.com/Business/trumps-economic-legacy/story?id=74760051

LOL, the job figures you cite above are purely related to the pandemic. As to your second point, read Laffer's book and decide for yourself the legacy.

[SSHoya]

The pandemic he mishandled. . . MAGA GOPers were killing themselves off by following their cult leader.

But the real story of the Trump economy, and the president’s role in building it, is not so simple. If you compare key economic indicators from Barack Obama’s second term in office to the first three years of Trump’s time (that is, before the pandemic hit), the data show a continuation of trends, not a dramatic shift. It suggests Trump didn’t build something new; rather he inherited a pretty good situation.

www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/data-show-trump-didn-t-build-great-economy-he-inherited-n1237793

The pandemic inflicted higher rates of excess deaths on both Republicans and Democrats. But after COVID-19 vaccines arrived, Republican voters in Florida and Ohio died at a higher rate than their counterparts, according to a new study.

Researchers from Yale University who studied the pandemic's effects on those two states say that from the pandemic's start in March 2020 through December 2021, "excess mortality was significantly higher for Republican voters than Democratic voters after COVID-19 vaccines were available to all adults, but not before."

www.npr.org/2023/07/25/1189939229/covid-deaths-democrats-republicans-gap-study

[SSHoya]

Stephen Moore is the co-author of the puff piece book on Trump. He is also: 1) a climate change denier; 2; believes woman should be homemakers; and 3) is in favor of abolishing child labor laws.

In a 2019 review of the book, conservative N. Gregory Mankiw, an economics professor at Harvard University and head of the Council of Economic Advisors under President George W. Bush, described the book as "snake-oil economics," writing that Moore and Laffer's analysis was based on "wishful thinking" rather than "the foundation of professional consensus or serious studies from peer-reviewed journals."

scholar.harvard.edu/files/mankiw/files/snake-oil_economics.pdf

Perhaps hh79's understanding of economics mirrors that of his understanding of First Amendment jurisprudence.

1. “And by the way, I’m going to say this loud and clear: Climate change is not a science it’s a religion,” Moore said. “It’s the religion of the left, and we have to fight back against this.”

www.mediamatters.org/climate-deniers/cpac-heritage-fellow-stephen-moore-claims-climate-change-not-science-its-religion

2. Trump’s Fed pick Steve Moore on CSpan in 2000: “The male needs to be the breadwinner. One reasons you’ve seen decline of the family, not just in black community but now in white community as well, is because women are more economically self-sufficient.”

x.com/johnjharwood/status/1122927983369519105

3. "I'm a radical on this. I'd get rid of a lot of these child-labor laws, I want people starting to work at 11, 12." -- Stephen Moore at a July 2016 panel discussion at that year's Republican National Convention in Cleveland, Ohio.

The column below was written when Demented Donnie was vetting Moore to be on the Fed.

Stephen Moore wants people to pay more attention to his economic policies. Challenge accepted.

Stephen Moore wants the media to pay less attention to his idiotic comments about gender and more attention to his idiotic comments about the economy.

Sure thing, bro. Happy to help out.

Moore, whom President Trump wants to appoint to the Federal Reserve Board, has been complaining about a “sleaze campaign” against him. The alleged “sleaze” involves simply repeating the sexist things Moore has publicly said in columns, speeches and on national TV. Such statements include: Women shouldn’t be allowed to report on sports unless they’re hot and wear revealing clothes; it would destabilize society if women became “economically self-sufficient”; and a powerful man should never take a meeting alone with any woman because she might falsely accuse him of sexual harassment.

Even high-profile conservative economists — including experts at the American Enterprise Institute, Hoover Institution, Cato Institute, and Mercatus Center  — have criticized Moore for his wrong, intellectually dishonest and politically malleable economic positions.

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/stephen-moore-wants-people-to-pay-more-attention-to-his-economic-policies-challenge-accepted/2019/04/29/96344a20-6abb-11e9-be3a-33217240a539_story.html

Representatives from a range of think tanks have reproved Moore's policies and experience. Harvard economist Greg Mankiw, who served as George W. Bush's Council of Economic Advisers chairman, wrote that Moore "does not have the intellectual gravitas for this important job." Mankiw also described Moore as "a propagandist, pushing for conservative causes, often with flimsy arguments." David Henderson, a research fellow from the Hoover Institute, wrote a piece titled "Wrong for the Fed," which said that "even by his own admission, [Moore] doesn't have much background in monetary theory or monetary policy."

[SSHoya]

Who remembers Sam Brownback and his destruction of Kansas based upon Laffer's theory of tax cuts? A real-life example of failed GOP tax cut economics but apparently GOPers are uneducable.

The nation’s most aggressive experiment in conservative economic policy is dead.

Republican majorities in the Kansas legislature on Tuesday night voted to reverse the deep tax cuts engineered by Governor Sam Brownback five years ago, blaming them for blowing a hole in the state’s budget that threatened the viability of its schools and infrastructure. Brownback, a conservative first elected in 2010 on a platform of phasing out Kansas’s income tax entirely, stood by his vision even in spite of an electoral backlash last year. But a coalition of Democrats and newly-elected Republicans overrode his veto of legislation to raise $1.2 billion in revenue by hiking personal income taxes and repealing a widely-criticized exemption for small-business owners. Tax rates will now go up to levels near where they were before Brownback took office.

For Brownback, a former senator and one-time presidential hopeful, the vote was nothing less than a humiliation. He had hailed his tax cuts as “a real live experiment” in conservative governance and offered them up as a model for other states and the Trump administration. Instead, they left him as the most unpopular governor in the country, who was reportedly casting about for a federal posting that would allow him to escape Topeka before the legislature could eviscerate his legacy. “The Brownback experiment didn’t work. We saw that loud and clear,” said Heidi Holliday, executive director of the Kansas Center for Economic Growth.

www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/kansass-conservative-tax-experiment-is-dead/529551/

In May 2012, all eyes were on Kansas as its former governor, Republican Sam Brownback, signed into law “the nation’s most aggressive experiment in conservative economic policy,” as Russell Berman wrote in The Atlantic. Kansas Senate Bill HB 2117 was one of the largest income tax cuts in the state’s history, entirely eliminating income taxes for the owners of nearly 200,000 pass-through businesses and decreasing taxes by 25% for the highest income rates. Brownback compared his fiscal policies with Reaganomics and promised a “prosperous future” for Kansas. He argued the cuts would pay for themselves by creating jobs and boosting the state’s economy.

It didn’t happen. The cuts threatened the viability of Kansas’s schools and infrastructure; in the first year they were implemented, they resulted in a $700 million revenue loss for the state. In 2017, the Kansas legislature voted overwhelmingly to restore the state’s tax rates.

www.theatlantic.com/video/index/558143/kansas-tax-cuts/

[hoyajinx]

Nov 1, 2024 11:05:07 GMT -5 happyhoya1979 said:

Nov 1, 2024 10:56:49 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

Yet as he leaves after his one-term tenure, Trump has become the first president since Herbert Hoover during the Great Depression to depart office with fewer jobs in the country than when he entered.

Trump's Economic Legacy

Economists say Trump’s economic legacy will be defined by his failure in leadership during the COVID-19 pandemic that exacerbated the financial downturn, domestic policies that overwhelmingly benefited the wealthy, and international trade policies that hurt U.S. industry while simultaneously alienating allies.

abcnews.go.com/Business/trumps-economic-legacy/story?id=74760051

LOL, the job figures you cite above are purely related to the pandemic. As to your second point, read Laffer's book and decide for yourself the legacy.

Why do you account for the pandemic in Trump losing an unprecedented number of jobs but pretend the pandemic wasn’t a driving cause of worldwide inflation? You lay all the blame squarely on Biden. It’s almost as if you’re politically selective in how you approach each administration’s economy. Talk about cherry-picking.

[Just Cos]

If there was ever a human being on planet earth that has been more involved with infrastructure, it is Donald J. Trump. He has built more housing, ice rinks, hotels, office towers etc. etc. etc. and paid more property tax for schools than any human being I can think of that is not Jerry Speyer or David Simon.

This made me laugh out loud. Ice skating rinks…smh. Where is Trump on this list of top 50 property tax payers in NYC?

www.metro-manhattan.com/blog/these-are-the-50-top-tax-paying-office-buildings-in-new-york-city/

Basic reasoning and simple fact checking

[blueeagle]

Nov 1, 2024 10:54:39 GMT -5 happyhoya1979 said:

Read the book, decide for yourself.

It will be an experience a lot like I have every Saturday when my Economistsubscription arrives. It has a globalist outlook with almost a religious fever for free trade but it is the single best source of journalism there is with all the facts and information on every important issue marshalled in a manner that you can decide for yourself.

Thank you for the suggestion. I had some difficulty finding it on Amazon as you suggested until I searched under fiction/fantasy/manga (or was it mango?).

[CTHoya08]

Imagine thinking that Eisenhower would look fondly upon a guy who wants to dismantle NATO and hang our allies out to dry.

[tashoya]

Nov 1, 2024 11:05:26 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

The pandemic he mishandled. . . MAGA GOPers were killing themselves off by following their cult leader.

But the real story of the Trump economy, and the president’s role in building it, is not so simple. If you compare key economic indicators from Barack Obama’s second term in office to the first three years of Trump’s time (that is, before the pandemic hit), the data show a continuation of trends, not a dramatic shift. It suggests Trump didn’t build something new; rather he inherited a pretty good situation.

www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/data-show-trump-didn-t-build-great-economy-he-inherited-n1237793

The pandemic inflicted higher rates of excess deaths on both Republicans and Democrats. But after COVID-19 vaccines arrived, Republican voters in Florida and Ohio died at a higher rate than their counterparts, according to a new study.

Researchers from Yale University who studied the pandemic's effects on those two states say that from the pandemic's start in March 2020 through December 2021, "excess mortality was significantly higher for Republican voters than Democratic voters after COVID-19 vaccines were available to all adults, but not before."

www.npr.org/2023/07/25/1189939229/covid-deaths-democrats-republicans-gap-study

Silly, SS. You have to ignore the hundreds of thousands of counts of involuntary manslaughter that Trump should be hit with. And, you have to ignore what he says because he means something different if it's insane or a lie or racist or stupid or flat-out objectively wrong. You have to ignore all of the negative to attempt to find a nugget for cultist morons cling to as an "achievement." You have to ignore the billions of dollars that it cost taxpayers when Trump got absolutely owned by China with regard to soybeans. I mean, really, what's wrong with YOU?

[tashoya]

Nov 1, 2024 10:54:39 GMT -5 happyhoya1979 said:

Read the book, decide for yourself.

It will be an experience a lot like I have every Saturday when my Economistsubscription arrives. It has a globalist outlook with almost a religious fever for free trade but it is the single best source of journalism there is with all the facts and information on every important issue marshalled in a manner that you can decide for yourself.

May I suggest having someone who understands the articles read it to you?

[prhoya]

Nov 1, 2024 10:46:38 GMT -5 hoya9797 said:

My son applied to GU yesterday and, to date, I’ve been hopeful he can get in and attend. But, reading your drivel makes me wonder if the GU degree is worth anything.

Best of luck to your kid (and to you, 9797)!!!

[tashoya]

Nov 1, 2024 10:46:38 GMT -5 hoya9797 said:

My son applied to GU yesterday and, to date, I’ve been hopeful he can get in and attend. But, reading your drivel makes me wonder if the GU degree is worth anything.

Best of luck to your son. Hopefully, he's markedly brighter than his dad. If not, maybe look into community colleges or JuCos. Odd that you have a "hoya" screen handle but don't know whether Georgetown degrees are worth anything. If you did go to Georgetown you, certainly, didn't make the most of your time there.

That said, Georgetown is very pricey these days. Give it 4 or so years and speak to your son (if he's accepted and chooses to attend) after he graduates and ask him about the people he met, the friends he made and how he feels about student loan forgiveness. You may be well-heeled but, I assure you, some of the most incredible people he meets, wherever he goes, will not have been similarly lucky/privileged. It's not easy for most people to be able to afford a "worthless" Georgetown education even with favorable loan terms. IMO, being well educated shouldn't have such huge barriers to entry. I'm not saying everything should be free but it, most assuredly, should be more reasonable or, at a minimum, possible for the vast majority of people. If you don't value a quality education, maybe don't have your son attend college or grad school at all. Just have him misinterpret the articles in magazines just like dad. It seems as though you think that differentiates you in some way by, ya know, reading stuff that, likely, many people here read as well. I've had a subscription since I was in college in the nineties. It never occurred to me to use it as a flex because, honestly, only a moron would do that on a Georgetown board. Read the room.

EDIT: As SSHoya pointed out to me in a PM and hoyajinx did in the thread, I badly confused two posters. The meat of that post was referring to happyhoya79 not hoya9797. My sincerest apologies to hoya9797. Best of luck to your son, 97. And, thank you to SSHoya and hoyajinx for pointing out (and reminding me), that I'm often an ass.

[hoyajinx]

Nov 2, 2024 1:18:22 GMT -5 tashoya said:

Nov 1, 2024 10:46:38 GMT -5 hoya9797 said:

My son applied to GU yesterday and, to date, I’ve been hopeful he can get in and attend. But, reading your drivel makes me wonder if the GU degree is worth anything.

Best of luck to your son. Hopefully, he's markedly brighter than his dad. If not, maybe look into community colleges or JuCos. Odd that you have a "hoya" screen handle but don't know whether Georgetown degrees are worth anything. If you did go to Georgetown you, certainly, didn't make the most of your time there.

That said, Georgetown is very pricey these days. Give it 4 or so years and speak to your son (if he's accepted and chooses to attend) after he graduates and ask him about the people he met, the friends he made and how he feels about student loan forgiveness. You may be well-heeled but, I assure you, some of the most incredible people he meets, wherever he goes, will not have been similarly lucky/privileged. It's not easy for most people to be able to afford a "worthless" Georgetown education even with favorable loan terms. IMO, being well educated shouldn't have such huge barriers to entry. I'm not saying everything should be free but it, most assuredly, should be more reasonable or, at a minimum, possible for the vast majority of people. If you don't value a quality education, maybe don't have your son attend college or grad school at all. Just have him misinterpret the articles in magazines just like dad. It seems as though you think that differentiates you in some way by, ya know, reading stuff that, likely, many people here read as well. I've had a subscription since I was in college in the nineties. It never occurred to me to use it as a flex because, honestly, only a moron would do that on a Georgetown board. Read the room.

I think you’ve gotten your posters mixed up here.

[aleutianhoya]

Nov 1, 2024 9:32:16 GMT -5 happyhoya1979 said:

While all you guys are chuckling, the fact is that under Trump there was a large increase in business fixed investment fueled by the cuts in regulation as well as the tax cuts-2017 to 2020 before the pandemic was very good for infrastructure.

This is silly. Non residential private fixed investment is almost always positive year to year. It's sort of like crowing that "jobs were created." Well, sure, because the economy generally is growing. The question is at what rate. And it's simply a statistical fact that fixed investment has grown at a higher rate under Biden than Trump. That's setting aside the pandemic years, which we all can agree were anomalous (for both administrations). Comparing the pre-pandemic curve for Trump and the post pandemic curve for Biden and the latter is meaningfully steeper.

[happyhoya1979]

In January 0f 2021 the prime rate stood at about 3.25% and the rate on a 30year mortgage stood at 2.96%. Today those rates in three and a half short years have gone up to about 8% and 7% respectively because of the inflation of the Biden-Harris era. That is 246% and 236% respectively. Since most people spend the largest portion of their earnings on housing and cars these encapsulate the living hell we have experiences and are experiencing and that began on January 21, 2021. The under 35 age bracket in particular has been the victims of this devastation.

[happyhoya1979]

And for those who need to borrow for college the damage is as serious. When the average person cannot afford a house, or a car or get an education you have discontent that sows the seeds of socialism. People lose hope in these dismal circumstances.