TC
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Post by TC on Sept 3, 2023 19:13:53 GMT -5
I think the exceptions for players to get eligible for January would be : - any player who graduates in December - any player on a team whose coach is fired midseason Or, and I think this makes plausible sense, any player who exercises a first time (no waiver required) transfer after the end of his fall semester. Is that possible? My impression from reading the rules around this is that to get the first time exception you need to transfer in the 60 day portal window. |
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dense
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Post by dense on Sept 3, 2023 21:28:22 GMT -5
Impressed with Asad's athletic ability to get up on his IG, him and Drew Fielder having a little dunk session on IG.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Sept 3, 2023 22:20:28 GMT -5
Or, and I think this makes plausible sense, any player who exercises a first time (no waiver required) transfer after the end of his fall semester. Is that possible? My impression from reading the rules around this is that to get the first time exception you need to transfer in the 60 day portal window. Right. If one could get a waiver after the fall semester, then why couldn't Dante Harris play immediately at Virginia? Or maybe he did it by choice? Articles about his transfer state he would "redshirt" the rest of the season, but it's unclear if that was by choice or necessity under the rules? I could not find a definitive answer online to this but admittedly I didn't have time to look for more than 15 minutes or so. |
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Post by professorhoya on Sept 3, 2023 23:29:01 GMT -5
Is that possible? My impression from reading the rules around this is that to get the first time exception you need to transfer in the 60 day portal window. Right. If one could get a waiver after the fall semester, then why couldn't Dante Harris play immediately at Virginia? Or maybe he did it by choice? Articles about his transfer state he would "redshirt" the rest of the season, but it's unclear if that was by choice or necessity under the rules? I could not find a definitive answer online to this but admittedly I didn't have time to look for more than 15 minutes or so. “Then entered the transfer portal on December 3rd. His recruitment was handled very quietly. The announcement comes after he was on hand for Virginia’s game on Saturday. While he could apply for a waiver to play this season, the plan is for him to redshirt this season” virginia.lockerroomaccess.com/blogs/blog/virginia-adds-transfer-point-guard-dante-harris |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Sept 4, 2023 11:03:04 GMT -5
Right. If one could get a waiver after the fall semester, then why couldn't Dante Harris play immediately at Virginia? Or maybe he did it by choice? Articles about his transfer state he would "redshirt" the rest of the season, but it's unclear if that was by choice or necessity under the rules? I could not find a definitive answer online to this but admittedly I didn't have time to look for more than 15 minutes or so. “Then entered the transfer portal on December 3rd. His recruitment was handled very quietly. The announcement comes after he was on hand for Virginia’s game on Saturday. While he could apply for a waiver to play this season, the plan is for him to redshirt this season” virginia.lockerroomaccess.com/blogs/blog/virginia-adds-transfer-point-guard-dante-harrisThanks! So that would seem to confirm mid-year transfers cannot play immediately, which makes sense given that the portal has the 60 day window at the end of the season when players can enter and then transfer without sitting if they haven't transferred again. So, if true, the only ways we could add to the scholarship roster would be: - A high school recruit (if it's not too late to register for classes). - A graduate transfer (if it's not too late to register for classes, though for transfers I imagine that late registration is less of an issue). - A mid-year transfer getting a waiver for second semester. |
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Post by hoyasaxaphone on Sept 4, 2023 11:20:30 GMT -5
Back to the roster discussion… Now that registration for the fall semester is done, are we at 9 or 10 scholarship players? I am genuinely curious if McKenna is enrolled, or if someone without a high school degree can enroll as they finish their requirements. Of course, I am assuming that the hold-up on McKenna's eligibility is a high school degree, which may not be true, as there are other requirements, like standardized test scores. Back when I was a student they used to publish a book directory of all students. In retrospect, it's amazing they published such a book with everybody's phone numbers and address. Home addresses may have even been included, but I don't remember for sure. I assume given privacy concerns that no such thing exists anymore (or if it does it is very restricted), but if it does that would be one way to find out who is enrolled. Standardized test score requirements?  The NCAA no longer has a minimum SAT/ACT score for athletes. Or are you implying that Georgetown is being academically selective in its basketball recruits? Hard to see that....though we do get some bona fide student athletes from time to time. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Sept 4, 2023 11:50:42 GMT -5
I am genuinely curious if McKenna is enrolled, or if someone without a high school degree can enroll as they finish their requirements. Of course, I am assuming that the hold-up on McKenna's eligibility is a high school degree, which may not be true, as there are other requirements, like standardized test scores. Back when I was a student they used to publish a book directory of all students. In retrospect, it's amazing they published such a book with everybody's phone numbers and address. Home addresses may have even been included, but I don't remember for sure. I assume given privacy concerns that no such thing exists anymore (or if it does it is very restricted), but if it does that would be one way to find out who is enrolled. Standardized test score requirements? The NCAA no longer has a minimum SAT/ACT score for athletes. Or are you implying that Georgetown is being academically selective in its basketball recruits? Hard to see that....though we do get some bona fide student athletes from time to time. No, more accurately, I didn't realize the rule was permanently changed back in February. So, I was just wrong--not implying anything. Georgetown does requirement normal applicants to take the SAT/ACT. I have no idea if they impose that requirement on all Division 1 athletes? |
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TC
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Post by TC on Sept 4, 2023 12:03:18 GMT -5
So, if true, the only ways we could add to the scholarship roster would be: - A high school recruit (if it's not too late to register for classes). - A graduate transfer (if it's not too late to register for classes, though for transfers I imagine that late registration is less of an issue). - A mid-year transfer getting a waiver for second semester. I think this is also a possible scenario : - coaching change (i.e. coach gets fired in October, players get 30 days to enter portal) |
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 4, 2023 12:04:24 GMT -5
Georgetown does requirement normal applicants to take the SAT/ACT. I have no idea if they impose that requirement on all Division 1 athletes? Over 10 percent of Georgetown undergraduates are Division I student athletes. "No application will be considered until all of the required credentials have been received. A notice of missing credentials will be emailed, but students should make every effort to ensure that they are submitted on time (see deadlines below). A complete application includes the following information: Georgetown Application Application Supplement Secondary School Report (including transcript) Teacher’s Recommendation A Non-refundable Application Fee of $75.00 – payable in USD Results of the College Board Scholastic Assessment Test or the American College Testing Program examination sent directly from the testing serviceScores from College Board SAT Subject Tests sent directly from the testing service (if taken prior to January 2021)" uadmissions.georgetown.edu/applying/first-year/ |
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Post by professorhoya on Sept 4, 2023 13:20:57 GMT -5
Thanks! So that would seem to confirm mid-year transfers cannot play immediately, which makes sense given that the portal has the 60 day window at the end of the season when players can enter and then transfer without sitting if they haven't transferred again. So, if true, the only ways we could add to the scholarship roster would be: - A high school recruit (if it's not too late to register for classes). - A graduate transfer (if it's not too late to register for classes, though for transfers I imagine that late registration is less of an issue). - A mid-year transfer getting a waiver for second semester. No, you are reading that wrong. Dante could have played immediately if he and the UVA staff had wanted to. “As of April 2021, D1 athletes transferring schools for the first time no longer have to redshirt for a year at their new college before competing. But you must meet certain qualifications to play immediately for the new school. And you will have to sit out a season for any subsequent transfers — unless you obtain a waiver from the NCAA.” There are certain criteria/qualifications a first time transfer needs to meet to play immediately listed in Q1 of the link. “For undergraduate student-athletes, what criteria must be met in order to utilize the Division I one-time exception to seek immediate transfer eligibility? In order to meet the criteria of the one-time transfer exception, the student-athlete must: » Transfer from a four-year collegiate institution to an NCAA Division I school; » Leave their current four-year school academically eligible; » Have not transferred previously from another four-year institution, and Certify in writing, along with their new head coach, they did not have direct or indirect communication with the new school’s athletics staff prior to entering the NCAA Transfer Portal. Additionally, an undergraduate student-athlete must provide their current school with a written request to enter the NCAA Transfer Portal within the designated sport-specific transfer windows. Other rules (e.g., disciplinary suspension at the previous school, transferable credits accepted by your new school, sport specific midyear transfer rules) may also factor into the campus compliance administrator’s certification of transfer eligibility.“ fs.ncaa.org/Docs/eligibility_center/Transfer/OneTime_Transfer.pdfBy the Letter of the Law Akok would likely fail the direct or indirect communication prior to entering the portal in terms of immediate eligibility. There are also sports specific midyear transfer rules so Dante would have to qualify for that but from reading the original arrival it seems that Dante could have played last year. However it made more sense for Dante to red shirt since the Pack Line defense like the Princeton Offense takes along time to master, Dante still needs to work on his UVA legend Curtis Staples 3pt shot (28% won’t cut it) and he was having some personal issues. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Sept 4, 2023 15:16:23 GMT -5
Thanks! So that would seem to confirm mid-year transfers cannot play immediately, which makes sense given that the portal has the 60 day window at the end of the season when players can enter and then transfer without sitting if they haven't transferred again. So, if true, the only ways we could add to the scholarship roster would be: - A high school recruit (if it's not too late to register for classes). - A graduate transfer (if it's not too late to register for classes, though for transfers I imagine that late registration is less of an issue). - A mid-year transfer getting a waiver for second semester. No, you are reading that wrong. Dante could have played immediately if he and the UVA staff had wanted to. “As of April 2021, D1 athletes transferring schools for the first time no longer have to redshirt for a year at their new college before competing. But you must meet certain qualifications to play immediately for the new school. And you will have to sit out a season for any subsequent transfers — unless you obtain a waiver from the NCAA.” There are certain criteria/qualifications a first time transfer needs to meet to play immediately listed in Q1 of the link. “For undergraduate student-athletes, what criteria must be met in order to utilize the Division I one-time exception to seek immediate transfer eligibility? In order to meet the criteria of the one-time transfer exception, the student-athlete must: » Transfer from a four-year collegiate institution to an NCAA Division I school; » Leave their current four-year school academically eligible; » Have not transferred previously from another four-year institution, and Certify in writing, along with their new head coach, they did not have direct or indirect communication with the new school’s athletics staff prior to entering the NCAA Transfer Portal. Additionally, an undergraduate student-athlete must provide their current school with a written request to enter the NCAA Transfer Portal within the designated sport-specific transfer windows. Other rules (e.g., disciplinary suspension at the previous school, transferable credits accepted by your new school, sport specific midyear transfer rules) may also factor into the campus compliance administrator’s certification of transfer eligibility.“ fs.ncaa.org/Docs/eligibility_center/Transfer/OneTime_Transfer.pdfBy the Letter of the Law Akok would likely fail the direct or indirect communication prior to entering the portal in terms of immediate eligibility. There are also sports specific midyear transfer rules so Dante would have to qualify for that but from reading the original arrival it seems that Dante could have played last year. However it made more sense for Dante to red shirt since the Pack Line defense like the Princeton Offense takes along time to master, Dante still needs to work on his UVA legend Curtis Staples 3pt shot (28% won’t cut it) and he was having some personal issues. The article you posted earlier spoke of a waiver being needed for Dante to play right away. He sat out because there would be limited minutes playing behind a 5th year player. 247sports.com/article/college-football-transfer-portal-faq-what-to-know-with-window-for-entries-closed-209395134/#:~:text=Yes.,%3A%20They%20can't%20play. For undergraduate players hoping to use their immediate eligibility as a first-time transfer, the portal is closed. Any undergraduate who enters at this point would be forced to sit a year in residence at their new school. In other words: They can’t play. |
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Sept 4, 2023 15:44:15 GMT -5
Georgetown does requirement normal applicants to take the SAT/ACT. I have no idea if they impose that requirement on all Division 1 athletes? Over 10 percent of Georgetown undergraduates are Division I student athletes. "No application will be considered until all of the required credentials have been received. A notice of missing credentials will be emailed, but students should make every effort to ensure that they are submitted on time (see deadlines below). A complete application includes the following information: Georgetown Application Application Supplement Secondary School Report (including transcript) Teacher’s Recommendation A Non-refundable Application Fee of $75.00 – payable in USD Results of the College Board Scholastic Assessment Test or the American College Testing Program examination sent directly from the testing serviceScores from College Board SAT Subject Tests sent directly from the testing service (if taken prior to January 2021)" uadmissions.georgetown.edu/applying/first-year/Like having the test sent directly from the testing service eliminates fraud. In many cases, top athletes aren’t taking their own tests. 🤣 |
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 4, 2023 16:16:36 GMT -5
Over 10 percent of Georgetown undergraduates are Division I student athletes. Results of the College Board Scholastic Assessment Test or the American College Testing Program examination sent directly from the testing serviceLike having the test sent directly from the testing service eliminates fraud. In many cases, top athletes aren’t taking their own tests. 🤣 I may have mentioned this earlier, but that clause is not about athletes, but a new trend among colleges looking for more applications: SRAR. This stands for "Self-Reported Academic Record" and, yes, some schools now let applicants enter their own grades (and test scores) online to be considered for admission. (What could go wrong?) |
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Post by Elvado on Sept 4, 2023 17:01:32 GMT -5
Like having the test sent directly from the testing service eliminates fraud. In many cases, top athletes aren’t taking their own tests. 🤣 I may have mentioned this earlier, but that clause is not about athletes, but a new trend among colleges looking for more applications: SRAR. This stands for "Self-Reported Academic Record" and, yes, some schools now let applicants enter their own grades (and test scores) online to be considered for admission. (What could go wrong?) Shockingly, this is true. My son just completed the SRAR process. It is mind-boggling though I presume the idea is to level the field for applicants whose secondary schools lack the resources and infrastructure to meaningfully assist the kids in the process, which is clearly a salutary purpose. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Sept 4, 2023 19:47:41 GMT -5
No, you are reading that wrong. Dante could have played immediately if he and the UVA staff had wanted to. “As of April 2021, D1 athletes transferring schools for the first time no longer have to redshirt for a year at their new college before competing. But you must meet certain qualifications to play immediately for the new school. And you will have to sit out a season for any subsequent transfers — unless you obtain a waiver from the NCAA.” The 60-day portal window was instituted August 2022 so I don't think this applies anymore. |
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Post by professorhoya on Sept 4, 2023 21:00:21 GMT -5
No, you are reading that wrong. Dante could have played immediately if he and the UVA staff had wanted to. “As of April 2021, D1 athletes transferring schools for the first time no longer have to redshirt for a year at their new college before competing. But you must meet certain qualifications to play immediately for the new school. And you will have to sit out a season for any subsequent transfers — unless you obtain a waiver from the NCAA.” There are certain criteria/qualifications a first time transfer needs to meet to play immediately listed in Q1 of the link. “For undergraduate student-athletes, what criteria must be met in order to utilize the Division I one-time exception to seek immediate transfer eligibility? In order to meet the criteria of the one-time transfer exception, the student-athlete must: » Transfer from a four-year collegiate institution to an NCAA Division I school; » Leave their current four-year school academically eligible; » Have not transferred previously from another four-year institution, and Certify in writing, along with their new head coach, they did not have direct or indirect communication with the new school’s athletics staff prior to entering the NCAA Transfer Portal. Additionally, an undergraduate student-athlete must provide their current school with a written request to enter the NCAA Transfer Portal within the designated sport-specific transfer windows. Other rules (e.g., disciplinary suspension at the previous school, transferable credits accepted by your new school, sport specific midyear transfer rules) may also factor into the campus compliance administrator’s certification of transfer eligibility.“ fs.ncaa.org/Docs/eligibility_center/Transfer/OneTime_Transfer.pdfBy the Letter of the Law Akok would likely fail the direct or indirect communication prior to entering the portal in terms of immediate eligibility. There are also sports specific midyear transfer rules so Dante would have to qualify for that but from reading the original arrival it seems that Dante could have played last year. However it made more sense for Dante to red shirt since the Pack Line defense like the Princeton Offense takes along time to master, Dante still needs to work on his UVA legend Curtis Staples 3pt shot (28% won’t cut it) and he was having some personal issues. The article you posted earlier spoke of a waiver being needed for Dante to play right away. He sat out because there would be limited minutes playing behind a 5th year player. 247sports.com/article/college-football-transfer-portal-faq-what-to-know-with-window-for-entries-closed-209395134/#:~:text=Yes.,%3A%20They%20can't%20play. For undergraduate players hoping to use their immediate eligibility as a first-time transfer, the portal is closed. Any undergraduate who enters at this point would be forced to sit a year in residence at their new school. In other words: They can’t play.The transfer portal window didn’t happen till 2023. So would not have applied to Dante. Once he entered the portal, which he did, he was able to transfer to UVA. So he would have been able to play right away as long as he met the qualifications. Also it should be noted that once in the portal during the transfer portal window you can transfer after the deadline. The deadline is just for entering the portal. Once in the portal you can transfer whenever unless you take your name out of the portal. Football and all fall and spring sports have two transfer windows. Seems unclear whether Fall-sports like basketball have a second window. Part of it is because the NCAA is just making it up as they go along. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Sept 5, 2023 4:19:30 GMT -5
The transfer portal window didn’t happen till 2023. So would not have applied to Dante. Once he entered the portal, which he did, he was able to transfer to UVA. So he would have been able to play right away as long as he met the qualifications. The transfer portal window changes went into effect on August 31, 2022 - Dante didn't enter the portal until December 2022. www.ncaa.org/news/2022/8/31/media-center-division-i-board-adopts-changes-to-transfer-rules.aspxThat wording seems to suggest that if you transfer outside of the portal window, you don't get to use the eligibility for first time transfers. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Sept 5, 2023 9:14:17 GMT -5
That wording seems to suggest that if you transfer outside of the portal window, you don't get to use the eligibility for first time transfers. I think this is correct. I posted further up the thread the window for the portal for 2024, which was 60 days starting around March 17, 2024. The rules professorhoya mentioned with regard to the portal, which I also read, are specifically in the context of the 60 day window. Presumably, if one enters the portal outside the 60 day window, those rules no longer apply. That said, I could not find any definitive answer to the question. But, the circumstantial information we have indicates you cannot transfer mid-year and play immediately. I do think the fact that there are so few mid-year transfers supports that too. If you could easily leave after the first semester and play somewhere else immediately, there'd be a lot more mid-year transfers, especially now where some guys would likely command NIL money by transferring mid-year. And there aren't many of those transfers. |
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Post by professorhoya on Sept 5, 2023 10:47:28 GMT -5
The transfer portal window didn’t happen till 2023. So would not have applied to Dante. Once he entered the portal, which he did, he was able to transfer to UVA. So he would have been able to play right away as long as he met the qualifications. The transfer portal window changes went into effect on August 31, 2022 - Dante didn't enter the portal until December 2022. www.ncaa.org/news/2022/8/31/media-center-division-i-board-adopts-changes-to-transfer-rules.aspxThat wording seems to suggest that if you transfer outside of the portal window, you don't get to use the eligibility for first time transfers. The first transfer portal window didn’t happen till March-May of 2023. This means that Dante was able to enter the portal before that window sometime in 2022. According to you December 2022 which is outside the first portal window. One good way to find out is if Dante can play in November-December of 2023. If he cannot then he had to wait a year, if he can then it means he waited only 1/2 of one season. The fact that UVA says he could have played last year indicates that it was by choice that he didn’t play. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Sept 5, 2023 11:30:34 GMT -5
The first transfer portal window didn’t happen till March-May of 2023. This means that Dante was able to enter the portal before that window sometime in 2022. According to you December 2022 which is outside the first portal window. One good way to find out is if Dante can play in November-December of 2023. If he cannot then he had to wait a year, if he can then it means he waited only 1/2 of one season. The fact that UVA says he could have played last year indicates that it was by choice that he didn’t play. According to the article TC posted the new portal window rules went into effect immediately which means when Dante transferred he wasn't automatically eligible because he transferred outside of the 60 day window. He'll be eligible to play now because he's a 1st time transfer |
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The NCAA no longer has a minimum SAT/ACT score for athletes. Or are you implying that Georgetown is being academically selective in its basketball recruits? Hard to see that....though we do get some bona fide student athletes from time to time.