hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Aug 30, 2023 8:30:24 GMT -5
THe last line of that Pitino article seals it for me. Pitino saying Iona was it and then leaving them with one scholly player and little to build on is why a Cooley build is superior to a Pitino build. Transfers make roster construction very difficult. St. Johns is definitely going to have a locker room with some very disgruntled players this year. Do they transfer or quit, or is the drama so big that it brings down the performance on the court? What does year 2 of pitino look like? I feel like we will be in a better spot with the two to three year rebuild vs. the one year. We gotta get old with experienced players in our system. That isn't a four year player anymore but it means your key guys & facilitators have to be on board. That is why the Epps/Brumbaugh pairing is so intriguing to me. That is a three to four year back court. If Epps is here for three years, something went wrong. He’ll be here two years, max, though Brumbaugh will be here for 4 years most likely. Rowan and Fielder are probably Cooley’s two most important recruits to date, along with Sorber. |
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Aug 30, 2023 9:27:50 GMT -5
Most coaches would not like a 9 man roster...But scholarships don't have to be given to fill same. Reason, players are needed for practice. Thus PWO added, schollies saved. As has been discussed here, scholarships are renewed every year. Besides, if there’s a plan to fill the scholarships the following year, then the answer is scholarship-caliber players with one year of eligibility.I don't completely disagree with you, and even as someone who was quite happy with the Cooley hire, I am a bit disappointed/nervous about our roster going into next year. But "scholarship-caliber players with one year of eligibility" is a tricky category. I don't think there are many guys who fit that description who want to spend one final year coming off of the bench. So that means you need to target starter-caliber players. Evan assuming you can find them, you have to weigh their contributions to this year's team versus the potential to prepare the players who will lead next year's team by giving them minutes now. Thus, I think it was right to go after Dickinson. If we had landed him (or someone like him), it would have instantly and significantly improved the team for this year, and sent the message to other transfer targets (be they one-year guys or otherwise) that we're building a contender right now. But having missed on Dickinson, and brought in a handful of multi-year transfers and freshmen, it's pretty clear that this coming season is going to be building for next year. In that case, it's probably more difficult to bring on one-year transfers (see, e.g., Akok leaving for his one final year), and their value to the program (not just this season's team) is less. So in sum, I'm not going to pretend that I'm thrilled about a nine-man roster of scholarship players. I'd feel a bit better about the team if Cooley had brought in some one-year, scholarship-caliber players to be "bodies" for depth/practice/injury-insurance. But I don't think there really are a whole lot of available players who have that profile (and are willing to admit to themselves that they have that profile). If Cooley can keep this core together, keep the three commitments committed, and maybe add another player or two (through the portal or from high school), we'd be looking at a strong roster for '24-25, including an experienced, game-tested core. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 30, 2023 9:31:53 GMT -5
Most coaches would not like a 9 man roster...But scholarships don't have to be given to fill same. Reason, players are needed for practice. Thus PWO added, schollies saved. As has been discussed here, scholarships are renewed every year. Besides, if there’s a plan to fill the scholarships the following year, then the answer is scholarship-caliber players with one year of eligibility. Your suggestions are basically : - lie to some rando undergrad about future plans when you fully intend on cutting their scholly in the spring - sign a scholarship worthy grad with one year of eligibility who is okay with not playing and not taking a bunch of NIL $ The first is a pretty crappy thing to do and I'm glad that Ed Cooley isn't doing it, and the second category is like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny in that they are mythical creatures who do not exist. Players with a year of eligibility left want playing time and/or NIL $ and why are we going to give either to roster filler guys who won't be in the rotation? |
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Aug 30, 2023 10:07:28 GMT -5
As has been discussed here, scholarships are renewed every year. Besides, if there’s a plan to fill the scholarships the following year, then the answer is scholarship-caliber players with one year of eligibility. Your suggestions are basically : - lie to some rando undergrad about future plans when you fully intend on cutting their scholly in the spring - sign a scholarship worthy grad with one year of eligibility who is okay with not playing and not taking a bunch of NIL $ The first is a pretty crappy thing to do and I'm glad that Ed Cooley isn't doing it, and the second category is like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny in that they are mythical creatures who do not exist. Players with a year of eligibility left want playing time and/or NIL $ and why are we going to give either to roster filler guys who won't be in the rotation? Why do you think there weren't transfers with a year of eligibility left that could give us better minutes in 2023-2024 than: Bigs: Mutombo, Fielder Wings: Bristol, possibly Styles (who is completely unproven) Also, why are we now saying NIL is a limitation, when it was made clear that Cooley took the job in part because he liked Georgetown's NIL opportunity compared to Providence's? I also think it's very foolish to sit on NIL money now, if that's what we're doing, expecting the NIL landscape to be the same 6-12 months from now. If you haven't noticed, the college athletics landscape is changing rapidly and constantly. It wouldn't surprise me at all if more guard rails were set that would inhibit using NIL the way teams have used it in the past 12 months. If you have NIL money now, you should use it. Cooley is setting this up basically to give himself a mulligan year hoping that fans/boosters give him the benefit of the doubt. The problem with that is other programs with new coaches are not doing the same thing, so it will be rightfully argued - why couldn't Cooley do at Georgetown what Pitino is doing at St. John's, or Beard is doing at Ole Miss, or Terry is doing at Texas (for example)? Why would a student at Georgetown give Cooley the benefit of the doubt and want to show up for games in 2024-2025 after what they're likely to witness in 2023-2024? It's not like Cooley has a bunch of previous success to fall back on, the guy's made one Sweet Sixteen in 17 years as a head coach. All that said, it looks like Cooley's strategy - now that he struck out on Dickinson and Spencer (among others, such as Dingle) is the following: 1) Use 2023-2024 as a development year and give tons of playing time to guys that will be important pieces in 2024-2025, namely: Epps, Brumbaugh, Styles, Cook, Fielder; hope that Epps doesn't break out too much and go pro 2) Hold NIL money to use on big-time transfers and freshman recruits for the 2024-2025 team 3) Hold scholarships for potential transfers that want to join mid-year during the 2023-2024 season 4) Hope that students/fans/boosters/media buy into his narrative that it takes awhile to rebuild Georgetown, unlike 1-year rebuilds occuring at places like Kansas State, St. John's, and Ole Miss; corollary to that is hoping that big money boosters present at the 2023 John Carroll weekend forget or forgive him for saying that we were going to have a good team in 2023-2024 |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Aug 30, 2023 10:13:35 GMT -5
THe last line of that Pitino article seals it for me. Pitino saying Iona was it and then leaving them with one scholly player and little to build on is why a Cooley build is superior to a Pitino build. Transfers make roster construction very difficult. St. Johns is definitely going to have a locker room with some very disgruntled players this year. Do they transfer or quit, or is the drama so big that it brings down the performance on the court? What does year 2 of pitino look like? I feel like we will be in a better spot with the two to three year rebuild vs. the one year. We gotta get old with experienced players in our system. That isn't a four year player anymore but it means your key guys & facilitators have to be on board. That is why the Epps/Brumbaugh pairing is so intriguing to me. That is a three to four year back court. With the evolving NIL situation and NCAA’s constant rule-changing, it will be interesting to see which recruiting/team building philosophy is the most successful and which one Cooley can use. Obviously, the top programs will have a different approach considering the amount of McDs AA they can attract. Here’s an article from Jan. 2023 where Pitino explains his recruitment adjustment: www.lohud.com/story/sports/college/iona/2023/01/29/iona-basketball-weekend-takeaways-siena-quinnipiac-rick-pitino-transfer-portal-free-agency/69852616007/Iona head coach Rick Pitino is ready to possibly embrace the transfer portal even more, especially as his team deals with injuries to key players, limited depth, and youth.
"We're really, really injured, really short-handed, and really banged up," Pitino said. "I told my staff this. I made a mistake, because as I watched Siena with like 10 upperclassmen, I have five freshmen, one became ineligible and that was a mistake. I was building for the future. You can't build for the future anymore.
"It's free agency. It's the (transfer) portal, and you've got to have juniors and seniors, so I made a mistake. I didn't expect Quinn Slazinski to go down. I didn't expect Walter (Clayton Jr.) to go down, I didn't expect Berrick (JeanLouis) to go down for three weeks, but it's a lesson learned. It's new times, I understand it, and there will be no more freshmen recruiting except for one or two a year."Pitino is learning and adjusting. Any way you look at it, we’re short-handed to start the season. Hopefully, the entire team is and stays healthy throughout the season, but what if some of our 9 scholarship players start “to go down.” Less wins will lead to our rebuilding taking longer. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Aug 30, 2023 10:26:28 GMT -5
As has been discussed here, scholarships are renewed every year. Besides, if there’s a plan to fill the scholarships the following year, then the answer is scholarship-caliber players with one year of eligibility. Your suggestions are basically : - lie to some rando undergrad about future plans when you fully intend on cutting their scholly in the spring - sign a scholarship worthy grad with one year of eligibility who is okay with not playing and not taking a bunch of NIL $ The first is a pretty crappy thing to do and I'm glad that Ed Cooley isn't doing it, and the second category is like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny in that they are mythical creatures who do not exist. Players with a year of eligibility left want playing time and/or NIL $ and why are we going to give either to roster filler guys who won't be in the rotation? What a big jump from what I wrote! As to the silly mythical creature theme of your post, I ask you how do the other rebuilding teams like SJU fill their rosters with quality upperclassmen? |
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wolveribe
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Post by wolveribe on Aug 30, 2023 10:31:22 GMT -5
I will start off by saying that I think Pitino, in the short term, is a better option. He would have this team more competitive from the start. Having said that, besides the ethical nature of the hire, its really a short term plan. Then you will be searching for a new coach in the very near term. With Cooley, this is his job and he's a proven coach. He brings stability and culture to a program that desperately needs it. While Pitino is first choice, I 100% understand the reasoning behind hiring Cooley. I think its silly for the people that have the mindset that since it wasn't Pitino, it was a bad hire.
Can someone explain why Epps would only be expected to be here 2 years?
Roman only playing 20 mins? He's going to be the primary ball handler and is plenty good enough to play starter minutes. Don't be jaded because he didn't play last year for Texas.
In terms of the question about scholarship players.I tried to find the Eric Musselman video. In essence, hes says he only wants to play 8-9 guys. That trying to play more is more detrimental to the team than good. And that having those extra players on the roster just makes more players unhappy. Not saying I completely agree with that, but I do think you can compete with 10-11 scholarship players. If you can grab a star, obviously use another one, but there is really no point in filling up all the scholarships just to fill them. Walk ons will be able to fill up the practice and most of these guys are experienced and can actually play a little bit to make practice competitive. Honestly, I would feel a little more comfortable with 1 more scholarship big man, but its' not a deal breaker to me.
The bottom line is that this seasons success will be dictated by the quality of the players they have (Mutumbo, Styles, Epps, etc) and not whether or not they found someone to fill the 11 through 13 scholarship slots.
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bigskyhoya
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Post by bigskyhoya on Aug 30, 2023 10:47:38 GMT -5
Your suggestions are basically : - lie to some rando undergrad about future plans when you fully intend on cutting their scholly in the spring - sign a scholarship worthy grad with one year of eligibility who is okay with not playing and not taking a bunch of NIL $ The first is a pretty crappy thing to do and I'm glad that Ed Cooley isn't doing it, and the second category is like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny in that they are mythical creatures who do not exist. Players with a year of eligibility left want playing time and/or NIL $ and why are we going to give either to roster filler guys who won't be in the rotation? Why do you think there weren't transfers with a year of eligibility left that could give us better minutes in 2023-2024 than: Bigs: Mutombo, Fielder Wings: Bristol, possibly Styles (who is completely unproven) Also, why are we now saying NIL is a limitation, when it was made clear that Cooley took the job in part because he liked Georgetown's NIL opportunity compared to Providence's? I also think it's very foolish to sit on NIL money now, if that's what we're doing, expecting the NIL landscape to be the same 6-12 months from now. If you haven't noticed, the college athletics landscape is changing rapidly and constantly. It wouldn't surprise me at all if more guard rails were set that would inhibit using NIL the way teams have used it in the past 12 months. If you have NIL money now, you should use it. Cooley is setting this up basically to give himself a mulligan year hoping that fans/boosters give him the benefit of the doubt. The problem with that is other programs with new coaches are not doing the same thing, so it will be rightfully argued - why couldn't Cooley do at Georgetown what Pitino is doing at St. John's, or Beard is doing at Ole Miss, or Terry is doing at Texas (for example)? Why would a student at Georgetown give Cooley the benefit of the doubt and want to show up for games in 2024-2025 after what they're likely to witness in 2023-2024? It's not like Cooley has a bunch of previous success to fall back on, the guy's made one Sweet Sixteen in 17 years as a head coach. All that said, it looks like Cooley's strategy - now that he struck out on Dickinson and Spencer (among others, such as Dingle) is the following: 1) Use 2023-2024 as a development year and give tons of playing time to guys that will be important pieces in 2024-2025, namely: Epps, Brumbaugh, Styles, Cook, Fielder; hope that Epps doesn't break out too much and go pro 2) Hold NIL money to use on big-time transfers and freshman recruits for the 2024-2025 team 3) Hold scholarships for potential transfers that want to join mid-year during the 2023-2024 season 4) Hope that students/fans/boosters/media buy into his narrative that it takes awhile to rebuild Georgetown, unlike 1-year rebuilds occuring at places like Kansas State, St. John's, and Ole Miss; corollary to that is hoping that big money boosters present at the 2023 John Carroll weekend forget or forgive him for saying that we were going to have a good team in 2023-2024 “Cooley is setting this up basically to give himself a mulligan year hoping that fans/boosters give him the benefit of the doubt.” He really doesn’t have to set anything up. He is going to be given more than a year to rebuild a program as beaten down as we are. Properly so, in my book. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 30, 2023 10:49:01 GMT -5
Your suggestions are basically : - lie to some rando undergrad about future plans when you fully intend on cutting their scholly in the spring - sign a scholarship worthy grad with one year of eligibility who is okay with not playing and not taking a bunch of NIL $ The first is a pretty crappy thing to do and I'm glad that Ed Cooley isn't doing it, and the second category is like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny in that they are mythical creatures who do not exist. Players with a year of eligibility left want playing time and/or NIL $ and why are we going to give either to roster filler guys who won't be in the rotation? What a big jump from what I wrote! As to the silly mythical creature theme of your post, I ask you how do the other rebuilding teams like SJU fill their rosters with quality upperclassmen? SJU is doing it by spending a bunch of NIL $ and lying to kids about roles and minutes (hey there Quinn Slazinski!). boya's other scenario is Chris Beard, who is burning a bunch of scholarships on second time transfers like Moussa Cisse and Brandon Murray who won't be eligible - how is that really any different than what Notre Dame or GU is doing? I love the hand wavy "maybe there will be NIL changes" argument, as if there's some possible scenario where we are not in better shape in spring 2024 with whatever our 2024 budget is and some leftover 2023 NIL added to it. Going to go out on a real limb here and will say whatever changes are enacted (spoiler : Congress will do nothing) that it's probably better to have more NIL $ than less. |
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bills
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Post by bills on Aug 30, 2023 13:05:54 GMT -5
Pretty sure Pitino wasn't ever actually in consideration for the job by the person making the decision and Shrewsberry was #2. Ehh, I wouldn’t be that sure, but that’s beside the point. Btw, as of now, it’s 4 open scholarships. Why is it only 9 scholarship players? In the table under Recruiting we have 10 scholarship players. Has something come out about McKenna that he will not be eligible? I have not seen that. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 30, 2023 14:49:04 GMT -5
Why do you think there weren't transfers with a year of eligibility left that could give us better minutes in 2023-2024 than: Bigs: Mutombo, Fielder Wings: Bristol, possibly Styles (who is completely unproven) I am not an expert at recruiting, but how many one year transfers existed that could fill these roles? And where did they go? I'm honestly curious if there were these guys out there who Cooley just didn't even try for. That said, in the transfer market, virtually everybody is overvalued. Remember when Patrick Ewing recruited graduate transfer Kaiden Rice and then went on to compare him to Mullin and others as a shooter? I know you are down on Mutombo, but I really think that's unfair in the sense that we really have no idea what we are going to get because Ewing refused to play him last year. I am confident Mutombo was better than Wilson, for example. I know you agree with me that Ewing was a horrible coach, so I don't think it is outside the realm of reason that Mutombo could do a lot better with Cooley coaching him than Ewing. I am less optimistic on Bristol, but it could happen. I do think Heath could have a nice season. Nobody has any idea what Georgetown's current NIL situation is like. We know Murray got some money, but given that the NIL situation at Georgetown is basically evolving and was clearly behind almost everybody else, I am not sure why people suddenly seem to think we have elite-level NIL? I find that highly doubtful, even if that's the goal. It also would not surprise me if Georgetown made NIL more difficult just because it was being holier than thou, but again, we have no indication that's the case. So, NIL is a black box, and we have no idea what's going on with it. As far as "If you have NIL money now, you should use it" I both agree and disagree. I agree in the sense that if you have NIL money and can get players to come to Georgetown who will help, use it. But, I would not throw money at mediocre guys just to fill a roster. Again, this is not a pot of money that Georgetown just doles out. It comes from donors and interested parties. Imagine you're wealthy and you give $1 million for NIL. Then let's say Cooley and his staff use it to fill the roster with Kaiden Rice type guys. If I was the donor, I'd be enraged, and much prefer saving that money for 2024-2025 when it might actually be put to good use. NIL is not just a piggy bank that keeps getting refilled. And while technically maybe the money cannot have strings attached, it practically does because you want donors to keep giving. Actually, Patrick Ewing and Jack DeGioia (who should have fired him sooner) set up the mulligan year. It's easy to forget how awful we were last year, yet people seem to expect miracles. Even St. John's, which was bad, was much better than us. I am not sure why people are now conveniently forgetting just how bad we were. People keep pointing to Pitino, and while he also inherited a down program, the program under Mike Anderson was much better than Georgetown under Ewing. Would Pitino have recruited a better roster than Cooley? Maybe. But, I also think using Pitino--a Hall of Fame coach--as the only barometer is kind of silly. I also think there's a good chance the media is overhyping St. John's solely because of Pitino (but he's really good as a coach so it may be warranted). Pitino has a more solid roster than we have, for sure, but it's also not like he's got an elite-level roster either. If they succeed it'll be because Pitino is an amazing coach. This is your typical attack on Cooley that you have made a million times. We get it. A student at Georgetown, who knows anything about Georgetown knows Cooley is new and rebuilding. Cooley is actually going out and MEETING students. He's interacting with them. He's making it more than wins/losses. Say what you will about his on-court performance at Providence, but he built a heck of a following there--that did not exist before he was coach--that we would die for at Georgetown. And most students at Georgetown have no clue how many Sweet 16's Cooley has. They just want to have fun and go to a game. Of course, you're more likely to come back with wins, but the idea that this team this year was going to be a great one under any coach is a pipe dream. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Aug 30, 2023 15:37:08 GMT -5
Even St. John's, which was bad, was much better than us. I am not sure why people are now conveniently forgetting just how bad we were. People keep pointing to Pitino, and while he also inherited a down program, the program under Mike Anderson was much better than Georgetown under Ewing. Would Pitino have recruited a better roster than Cooley? Maybe. But, I also think using Pitino--a Hall of Fame coach--as the only barometer is kind of silly. I also think there's a good chance the media is overhyping St. John's solely because of Pitino (but he's really good as a coach so it may be warranted). Pitino has a more solid roster than we have, for sure, but it's also not like he's got an elite-level roster either. If they succeed it'll be because Pitino is an amazing coach. Why was SJU's program much better than GU under Ewing? I think the difference was a mediocre coach vs. the worst coach in BE history. 2003, you and I see eye-to-eye in many things and can discuss when we don't agree, but this seems like a terrible excuse to justify Pitino's superb recruiting vs. Cooley's good one. Both programs cleaned house, both previous coaches are gone, both new coaches had to start from scratch (1 returning player vs. 3 returning players), both left their previous schools and players without notice (having said at some point that they were there for the long haul) for better $chool$, both have historical programs presently in the dumps but with sellable aspects (NBA arenas, best recruiting bases in NY/NJ and DMV, BE conference, NIL-backing, etc...), etc... Why is it silly? Do you know of any other major conference coach in a similar situation that we can use to compare him to Cooley? |
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Aug 30, 2023 18:24:58 GMT -5
Face it folks, unless we have a HUGE year all the media attention this year will be on St. John's and Pitino. So let's just hope the Hoyas can fly under the radar and then explode on the scene in January. And if they don't let's be happy with an improved record and a better coached, more disciplined and exciting team to watch.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Aug 30, 2023 18:57:53 GMT -5
Face it folks, unless we have a HUGE year all the media attention this year will be on St. John's and Pitino. So let's just hope the Hoyas can fly under the radar and then explode on the scene in January. And if they don't let's be happy with an improved record and a better coached, more disciplined and exciting team to watch. Completely agree!!! (and maybe get someone in the winter break!) |
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on Aug 30, 2023 19:12:32 GMT -5
Face it folks, unless we have a HUGE year all the media attention this year will be on St. John's and Pitino. So let's just hope the Hoyas can fly under the radar and then explode on the scene in January. And if they don't let's be happy with an improved record and a better coached, more disciplined and exciting team to watch. Completely agree!!! (and maybe get someone in the winter break!) You may be right, but if it's true that BE basketball and the whole NCAA is a better thing when Georgetown is good and relevant, then I think we'll get better than a fair amount of media attention. Nothing will compete with Cooley's return to Providence, and if the buzz is that the program is back on track and building to a better 24-25 season AND if we manage to knock off a UConn, Villanova, Creighton, even Provy and Xavier -- the light will be shining on the Hilltop once again. Also the Pitino-Cooley faceoff at MSG should be big. Of course, if St. John's runs off a streak of BE wins, the light will swing heavy that way. |
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Aug 30, 2023 19:32:31 GMT -5
Besides having the far better (on paper) team, St John's has a media advantage in that NY media still covers college basketball. The same can not be said in the DC area. Earlier this week the league announced their pre season media event at MSG. When's the last time a full time reporter based in the DC area went up to that event to cover Georgetown?
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Aug 30, 2023 21:05:45 GMT -5
THe last line of that Pitino article seals it for me. Pitino saying Iona was it and then leaving them with one scholly player and little to build on is why a Cooley build is superior to a Pitino build. Transfers make roster construction very difficult. St. Johns is definitely going to have a locker room with some very disgruntled players this year. Do they transfer or quit, or is the drama so big that it brings down the performance on the court? What does year 2 of pitino look like? I feel like we will be in a better spot with the two to three year rebuild vs. the one year. We gotta get old with experienced players in our system. That isn't a four year player anymore but it means your key guys & facilitators have to be on board. That is why the Epps/Brumbaugh pairing is so intriguing to me. That is a three to four year back court. If Epps is here for three years, something went wrong. He’ll be here two years, max, though Brumbaugh will be here for 4 years most likely. Rowan and Fielder are probably Cooley’s two most important recruits to date, along with Sorber. Mulberry (jabril 2.0) says hello. He’s the recruit that Cooley May be most excited about. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 30, 2023 21:09:12 GMT -5
Why was SJU's program much better than GU under Ewing? I think the difference was a mediocre coach vs. the worst coach in BE history. 2003, you and I see eye-to-eye in many things and can discuss when we don't agree, but this seems like a terrible excuse to justify Pitino's superb recruiting vs. Cooley's good one. Both programs cleaned house, both previous coaches are gone, both new coaches had to start from scratch (1 returning player vs. 3 returning players), both left their previous schools and players without notice (having said at some point that they were there for the long haul) for better $chool$, both have historical programs presently in the dumps but with sellable aspects (NBA arenas, best recruiting bases in NY/NJ and DMV, BE conference, NIL-backing, etc...), etc... Why is it silly? Do you know of any other major conference coach in a similar situation that we can use to compare him to Cooley? Fair enough. Silly was probably not the right word. In fact, Pitino is the most obvious comparison to Cooley/Georgetown because both schools had coaching changes, and both struggled. As far as Georgetown is concerned, I think we can all agree that while Anderson had his own problems, Ewing was definitely a worse coach. But it's not just Ewing, everything surrounding he program the last few years just seemed to turn people off. We weren't even remotely competitive, ranked 175 and 219 on KenPom the last two years, with two wins. In contrast, Anderson had 15 Big East wins over the last two seasons. Now, with all the roster upheaval at both programs does it really matter? Yes and no. I think from a recruiting perspective, Georgetown had fallen so hard that it became a bit radioactive when it game to getting recruits. Ewing also did us no favors with the local programs either (one could say the same about JT3 too possibly). While Cooley did recruit in the DMV in the past, obviously he wasn't pulling his players from there, nor could he sell Providnece as "staying home" for DMV guys. So, in that sense, I think Cooley and his assistants need to pivot to a different recruiting scene to some extent. In contrast, Pitino was very much plugged into the New York recruiting scene at Iona, even if he was recruiting for a lower-level progam. When I said "silly," I just meant that of course Pitino is better. He's not only a Hall of Fame coach, but he's literally one of the best coaches to ever coach the collegiate game, and easily a top 5 or better the last 20-30 years. That is why I wanted him to come to Georgetown! I thought Pitino presented the best odds of a quick tunaround, a necessary break from the Thompson tradition, and the best chance to get us to a Final Four in the next few years. While I have come to very much like Cooley and appreciate him over the last few months, if I was choosing right now, I'd likely still choose Pitino for that reason, but I do now consider it a closer call than I did in March (in part because I now know Cooley cleaned Ronny and others out). I fully expect Pitino to do better than Cooley this year. He's a better recruiter and he's a better X's and O's coach too. Again, this is why I wanted him to be our coach. I do think one difference is that Pitino wants to win immediately, and likely less patient than Cooley. I think he's also willing to push the boundaries of the rules, likely more so than Cooley would be, as evidenced by Pitino getting rid of the one guy, and using NIL to get around scholarship limits. And as I've said before, Pitino has the New York media and college basketball media in his palm. Pitino has a good and long-time relationship with those guys, and everybody would love a Pitino redemption story. The stories practically write themselves. I think that's in large part why St. John's is getting so much hype. Pitino is so talented he very well may get his team to live up to that hype, but the Big East is really tough, so I think some of these St. John's top 25 type projections may be premature. Or not. That'll be fun to see. |
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,750
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Post by hoyaboya on Aug 30, 2023 21:11:21 GMT -5
If Epps is here for three years, something went wrong. He’ll be here two years, max, though Brumbaugh will be here for 4 years most likely. Rowan and Fielder are probably Cooley’s two most important recruits to date, along with Sorber. Mulberry (jabril 2.0) says hello. He’s the recruit that Cooley May be most excited about. Jabril is a good comparison. That’s not the type of guy to get too excited about, IMO, but to each his own. |
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,672
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Post by guru on Aug 30, 2023 21:16:52 GMT -5
Mulberry (jabril 2.0) says hello. He’s the recruit that Cooley May be most excited about. Jabril is a good comparison. That’s not the type of guy to get too excited about, IMO, but to each his own. Trawick played really hard and with a chip on his shoulder, but the way he’s remembered by some on here shows how far the program fell by the end of the JT3 years. And then it fell even further. |
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