hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Apr 5, 2022 13:48:31 GMT -5
So yall have never had supervision that you had to make him/her feel like a idea was theirs to get them to use it? The Xs and Os only need tweaks not a full overhaul. You only have to make small suggestions and Ewing will get on board. You can't go in throwing insults... 1) the entire thing needs a complete overhaul. It’s ludicrous that you think a tweak will do anything. Take a look at the stats (defense especially) and tell me how a tweak here and there could do anything. 2) what makes you think Ewing is willing to listen to any suggestions?
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bigskyhoya
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Post by bigskyhoya on Apr 5, 2022 14:30:25 GMT -5
The pitch by our new assistant(s) should be to try to minimize Ewing's role and emphasize that their hiring indicates a change of direction for the program. Not so easy to make when Patrick still runs the show. And how exactly does THAT work? You're telling the team to ignore the head coach? No easily, as I acknowledged. But how else do you propose to maneuver around 0-20, other than to say we have two new coaches with a fresh approach to running the team.
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on Apr 5, 2022 14:58:57 GMT -5
Because GW already hired someone else for that job? OK, sure. Of course they already filled the position & that's why Mike could be interested in the asst. job here. I mean, who didn't know that, right? (Probably could have gone that extra step & looked that up before I got all poster happy. Thanks.)
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guru
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Post by guru on Apr 5, 2022 15:14:12 GMT -5
So yall have never had supervision that you had to make him/her feel like a idea was theirs to get them to use it? The Xs and Os only need tweaks not a full overhaul. You only have to make small suggestions and Ewing will get on board. You can't go in throwing insults... 1) the entire thing needs a complete overhaul. It’s ludicrous that you think a tweak will do anything. Take a look at the stats (defense especially) and tell me how a tweak here and there could do anything. 2) what makes you think Ewing is willing to listen to any suggestions? Your relentlessness is perversely impressive. How do you possibly have this much free time to man the Anti-Ewing Wall? LOL
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 5, 2022 15:18:37 GMT -5
With all due respect to everybody here, I think there is some pie in the sky stuff happening. People are reading way too much into this. Based on everything we know, Ewing does take a direct and meaningful role in coaching the program, and has from Day 1. We know he's out on the recruiting trail at times, and there is no reason to think he doesn't play an important role in setting forth our offensive and defensive schemes (whatever they are).
I am not sure why anybody thinks hiring two guys--who are known for recruiting primarily--is going to somehow drastically change the program. Are either of them going to have the gravitas and ability to push Ewing aside so they can implement their own systems or changes on the team? I don't think so. It's clear, based on these moves, that the powers that be see recruiting as key to changing the trajectory of the program.
Why does anybody think Ewing is going to willfully step aside, or be pushed aside, so that assistants like Nickelberry or Pegues can take over? This is silly. It's not going to happen. If Ewing had expressed a desire to bring in a new approach/ideas, I might be willing to hear it out, but we have absolutely no indication of that. Ewing's comments themselves always seem to blame the players, so if he really thinks that's the major problem, then his moves make a lot of sense.
If we bring in better talent, we absolutely should get better than 0-20, but if we still coach a stagnant offense and a putrid defense, then there is essentially little to no hope of actual success. While not spectacular, our talent level under Ewing has never been awful, either (though this past season's roster was pretty weak). The real problem is that Ewing has been unable to coach an effective defensive system. It doesn't matter if we have top 100 recruits if they cannot be taught how to play.
The real difference maker would be a coach who can be a teacher on defense. While those guys exist, there is no indication Ewing is seeking one, or willing to cede that part of coaching to someone else, as some other coaches do.
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on Apr 5, 2022 15:20:46 GMT -5
And how exactly does THAT work? You're telling the team to ignore the head coach? No easily, as I acknowledged. But how else do you propose to maneuver around 0-20, other than to say we have two new coaches with a fresh approach to running the team. I agree. Maybe PE isn't the best coach and maybe the numbers and metrics are downright, gobsmackingly bad. Along with all the other (reasonable, usually) assuming we all do here, is there anything to suggest that PE does NOT get that he needs to make better things happen and right away? HoyaZeke is right on -- as a teacher, I've done it. Made the idea of something my students had to do THEIR idea and it usually got done. Done it as a spouse in a marriage. Countless times. Daily. If Nickelberry and maybe Pegues understand from their experience as asst. coaches, they will know that you gotta read the room all the time, work your relationships, and massage the situations to know when and how to have the best impact and input -- with the players, of course, but in this case, with the HC. (Did anyone notice in the UNC - KS game -- during the timeout for the very last play, it was the asst. coach with the whiteboard drawing up the play? Hubie was there, but the asst. was in charge at that moment.) Question: how much actual conversation might happen in a phone call or interview about the need for the new asst. coaches to assert themselves, esp. in the areas most desperate for improvement (defense, X's and O's - offense)? And do you think anything is whispered about the possibility of moving up to HC if the train never quite gets back on the tracks?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2022 15:25:14 GMT -5
Upgrading the talent level in the program should be priority #1. Doesn't matter who your coach is if you don't have the horses to compete. Talent wins in college basketball.
You could have had the best coach in the world and he probably pulls around 4 conference wins out of last years team tops. I doubt many would find that acceptable. Have to upgrade the talent then you can focus on the other parts.
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bigskyhoya
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Post by bigskyhoya on Apr 5, 2022 15:34:55 GMT -5
With all due respect to everybody here, I think there is some pie in the sky stuff happening. People are reading way too much into this. Based on everything we know, Ewing does take a direct and meaningful role in coaching the program, and has from Day 1. We know he's out on the recruiting trail at times, and there is no reason to think he doesn't play an important role in setting forth our offensive and defensive schemes (whatever they are). I am not sure why anybody thinks hiring two guys--who are known for recruiting primarily--is going to somehow drastically change the program. Are either of them going to have the gravitas and ability to push Ewing aside so they can implement their own systems or changes on the team? I don't think so. It's clear, based on these moves, that the powers that be see recruiting as key to changing the trajectory of the program. Why does anybody think Ewing is going to willfully step aside, or be pushed aside, so that assistants like Nickelberry or Pegues can take over? This is silly. It's not going to happen. If Ewing had expressed a desire to bring in a new approach/ideas, I might be willing to hear it out, but we have absolutely no indication of that. Ewing's comments themselves always seem to blame the players, so if he really thinks that's the major problem, then his moves make a lot of sense. If we bring in better talent, we absolutely should get better than 0-20, but if we still coach a stagnant offense and a putrid defense, then there is essentially little to no hope of actual success. While not spectacular, our talent level under Ewing has never been awful, either (though this past season's roster was pretty weak). The real problem is that Ewing has been unable to coach an effective defensive system. It doesn't matter if we have top 100 recruits if they cannot be taught how to play. The real difference maker would be a coach who can be a teacher on defense. While those guys exist, there is no indication Ewing is seeking one, or willing to cede that part of coaching to someone else, as some other coaches do. I’m not. I’m offering a suggestion as to how we may try to spin our way out of a desperate situation.
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Apr 5, 2022 15:54:16 GMT -5
With all due respect to everybody here, I think there is some pie in the sky stuff happening. People are reading way too much into this. Based on everything we know, Ewing does take a direct and meaningful role in coaching the program, and has from Day 1. We know he's out on the recruiting trail at times, and there is no reason to think he doesn't play an important role in setting forth our offensive and defensive schemes (whatever they are). I am not sure why anybody thinks hiring two guys--who are known for recruiting primarily--is going to somehow drastically change the program. Are either of them going to have the gravitas and ability to push Ewing aside so they can implement their own systems or changes on the team? I don't think so. It's clear, based on these moves, that the powers that be see recruiting as key to changing the trajectory of the program. Why does anybody think Ewing is going to willfully step aside, or be pushed aside, so that assistants like Nickelberry or Pegues can take over? This is silly. It's not going to happen. If Ewing had expressed a desire to bring in a new approach/ideas, I might be willing to hear it out, but we have absolutely no indication of that. Ewing's comments themselves always seem to blame the players, so if he really thinks that's the major problem, then his moves make a lot of sense. If we bring in better talent, we absolutely should get better than 0-20, but if we still coach a stagnant offense and a putrid defense, then there is essentially little to no hope of actual success. While not spectacular, our talent level under Ewing has never been awful, either (though this past season's roster was pretty weak). The real problem is that Ewing has been unable to coach an effective defensive system. It doesn't matter if we have top 100 recruits if they cannot be taught how to play. The real difference maker would be a coach who can be a teacher on defense. While those guys exist, there is no indication Ewing is seeking one, or willing to cede that part of coaching to someone else, as some other coaches do. I agree somewhat in that anyone suggesting this is being done to set up take outs for Ewing is probably missing the point here. Ewing has made it clear he thinks it's a talent issue, and he's trying to find guys with connections to DMV to get those players. Which is...what everyone on this board has said we lacked with a local recruiting presence. I'm as pessimistic as anyone about the program at this point, I thought he should've been fired, nobody should be above 0-19. But honestly...isn't Pegues / Nickelberry like literally one of the best possible outcomes of the assistant coach search (assuming Pegues happens). When the firings were announced this board was flooded with "well who the hell would even take this job" comments (I'd have to check I might have said it also, I was certainly thinking it). The list of top assistant options all included Pegues. Jokes were flying about the criteria needed to have a Thompson connection. Then Gtown / Ewing goes out and gets two of the most connected DC assistants available, with real power conference experience, and now we're just burying it under 3 pages of "doesn't matter, Ewing is still in charge". If he had hired younger guys, it would be "man he couldn't get anyone with experience". Yes of course, I have my doubts any of this can really be fixed. And the Nickelberry 3 person package always sounded a little too good to be true, would be happy if he could get one of Reed / Murray. But man, there is some pretty classic goalpost moving in this thread.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Apr 5, 2022 15:55:09 GMT -5
So--any updates on the rumor Pegues is coming here???
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by guru on Apr 5, 2022 16:13:25 GMT -5
With all due respect to everybody here, I think there is some pie in the sky stuff happening. People are reading way too much into this. Based on everything we know, Ewing does take a direct and meaningful role in coaching the program, and has from Day 1. We know he's out on the recruiting trail at times, and there is no reason to think he doesn't play an important role in setting forth our offensive and defensive schemes (whatever they are). I am not sure why anybody thinks hiring two guys--who are known for recruiting primarily--is going to somehow drastically change the program. Are either of them going to have the gravitas and ability to push Ewing aside so they can implement their own systems or changes on the team? I don't think so. It's clear, based on these moves, that the powers that be see recruiting as key to changing the trajectory of the program. Why does anybody think Ewing is going to willfully step aside, or be pushed aside, so that assistants like Nickelberry or Pegues can take over? This is silly. It's not going to happen. If Ewing had expressed a desire to bring in a new approach/ideas, I might be willing to hear it out, but we have absolutely no indication of that. Ewing's comments themselves always seem to blame the players, so if he really thinks that's the major problem, then his moves make a lot of sense. If we bring in better talent, we absolutely should get better than 0-20, but if we still coach a stagnant offense and a putrid defense, then there is essentially little to no hope of actual success. While not spectacular, our talent level under Ewing has never been awful, either (though this past season's roster was pretty weak). The real problem is that Ewing has been unable to coach an effective defensive system. It doesn't matter if we have top 100 recruits if they cannot be taught how to play. The real difference maker would be a coach who can be a teacher on defense. While those guys exist, there is no indication Ewing is seeking one, or willing to cede that part of coaching to someone else, as some other coaches do. I agree somewhat in that anyone suggesting this is being done to set up take outs for Ewing is probably missing the point here. Ewing has made it clear he thinks it's a talent issue, and he's trying to find guys with connections to DMV to get those players. Which is...what everyone on this board has said we lacked with a local recruiting presence. I'm as pessimistic as anyone about the program at this point, I thought he should've been fired, nobody should be above 0-19. But honestly...isn't Pegues / Nickelberry like literally one of the best possible outcomes of the assistant coach search (assuming Pegues happens). When the firings were announced this board was flooded with "well who the hell would even take this job" comments (I'd have to check I might have said it also, I was certainly thinking it). The list of top assistant options all included Pegues. Jokes were flying about the criteria needed to have a Thompson connection. Then Gtown / Ewing goes out and gets two of the most connected DC assistants available, with real power conference experience, and now we're just burying it under 3 pages of "doesn't matter, Ewing is still in charge". If he had hired younger guys, it would be "man he couldn't get anyone with experience". Yes of course, I have my doubts any of this can really be fixed. And the Nickelberry 3 person package always sounded a little too good to be true, would be happy if he could get one of Reed / Murray. But man, there is some pretty classic goalpost moving in this thread. There’s a faction of the board that will never allow itself to express any positivity about anything involving the program as long as Ewing is in charge. And they appear to have a lot of time to post here, as it’s basically a half dozen posters who dominate the discussion and push every negative angle. I get their frustration - Ewing has proven to be a very bad coach and he should definitely have been fired. But he wasn’t. So we are where we are, and the assistant coach hirings definitely address many of the pressing concerns voiced on this board. Of course, there are still problems. The team went 0-20 and appears to be about to lose even more players. It’s a shambles. But the assistant coaches do offer a glimmer of hope, right?
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by iowa80 on Apr 5, 2022 16:14:14 GMT -5
So--any updates on the rumor Pegues is coming here??? My highly placed sources tell me that he and Ronnie were seen lunching at Bourbon Steak. I'm trying to confirm. Ssssh.
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Post by centercourt400s on Apr 5, 2022 16:20:06 GMT -5
Came for news on the Hoyas and found that much of Hoyatalk has turned into a huge echo chamber with many posters simply trying to prove that they hate Ewing more than the next guy.
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Post by hoyas4lyfe on Apr 5, 2022 16:20:21 GMT -5
Don’t believe it until I hear it from someone instead of a poster who’s posted 4 times, all recently
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OmaHoya
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Post by OmaHoya on Apr 5, 2022 16:25:38 GMT -5
Came for news on the Hoyas and found that much of Hoyatalk has turned into a huge echo chamber with many posters simply trying to prove that they hate Ewing more than the next guy. This area is free from joy and optimism. Take those expectations elsewhere.
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hoyazeke on Apr 5, 2022 16:27:30 GMT -5
So yall have never had supervision that you had to make him/her feel like a idea was theirs to get them to use it? The Xs and Os only need tweaks not a full overhaul. You only have to make small suggestions and Ewing will get on board. You can't go in throwing insults... 1) the entire thing needs a complete overhaul. It’s ludicrous that you think a tweak will do anything. Take a look at the stats (defense especially) and tell me how a tweak here and there could do anything. 2) what makes you think Ewing is willing to listen to any suggestions? The more you type the more you confirm that you never played the game. Basketball in itself is a series of tweaks. There were times when players got their rotations in scramble drill correctly...see 1st half of 1st Nova game...offense definitely needs more work but to me that's more PG play. Dante didn't do enough creating for others. He's really good at creating for himself but that doesn't lead to cohesive O....
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by iowa80 on Apr 5, 2022 16:30:49 GMT -5
Came for news on the Hoyas and found that much of Hoyatalk has turned into a huge echo chamber with many posters simply trying to prove that they hate Ewing more than the next guy. This is an exaggeration.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,468
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Post by TC on Apr 5, 2022 16:33:16 GMT -5
Came for news on the Hoyas and found that much of Hoyatalk has turned into a huge echo chamber with many posters simply trying to prove that they hate Ewing more than the next guy. There's no news, Patrick Ewing skipped out on the Final Four because he was sick, and there's not really a competition because I think we all recognize 9797's leadership and foresight in this area.
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guru
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Post by guru on Apr 5, 2022 16:59:52 GMT -5
Came for news on the Hoyas and found that much of Hoyatalk has turned into a huge echo chamber with many posters simply trying to prove that they hate Ewing more than the next guy. There's no news, Patrick Ewing skipped out on the Final Four because he was sick, and there's not really a competition because I think we all recognize 9797's leadership and foresight in this area. You make for a very capable Waylon Smithers. Don’t sell yourself short.
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Apr 5, 2022 17:11:10 GMT -5
Came for news on the Hoyas and found that much of Hoyatalk has turned into a huge echo chamber with many posters simply trying to prove that they hate Ewing more than the next guy. There's no news, Patrick Ewing skipped out on the Final Four because he was sick, and there's not really a competition because I think we all recognize 9797's leadership and foresight in this area. 9797 has ably filled the void left by hoyaboya, who decided to step back and devote more time to family
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