jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Dec 12, 2021 6:16:28 GMT -5
In the Syracuse second half , I think we got a preview of our backcourt of the future and it looked great- Beard and Dante.
In the first half, Beard was beaten badly defensively 3 times in 3 minutes not including his blocked 3 which led to a transition basket , but let’s set that aside as a freshmen mistakes and focus on what he showed in the 2nd. In 7 second half minutes he had 4 assists putting on a masterclass at finding open players.
It is becoming evident that Beard has the best vision on the team, and I don’t think it is close. He also seems to be the best finding the post particularly in an advantaged situation.
Dante has strong handles, can penetrate to find his shot, can lock someone down defensively on the ball, and last year was automatic from the stripe in the clutch, but shot creating for others is not his strength. Beard appears to have this skill. Having both these players on the floor with either able to handle the ball is the beginning of a very formidable, elite back court
Meanwhile, giving up some (not all) ball handling responsibilities will free Dante to be more of a scorer with his penetration.
Where does this leave Riley? I think Riley is that 3rd guard to this duo. I am a HUGE Riley fan, but he is still adjusting right now to the college game. He has a big role to play, and it is playing alongside this duo. Meanwhile, Denver could rotate in for any of them with primary ball handling sliding to whomever remains on the floor.
To all those “but it is his fifth year’ and. ‘Why aren’t we top 3 in the conference yet’ fans, stand back, take a breath, and watch (and enjoy) Ewing assemble this future team. Get off his back, stop stirring sh** up, and give time for things to come together like the flavors in a delicious gumbo. If you taste it too early while it is cooking, of course, it won’t taste finished because that is not how this works. It is going to be an exciting journey from the very bottom of the mountain (losing by 40+ In a closed scrimmage to a mediocre UVA team) to the very top. Here is the little understood part…it is the extreme challenges during the journey that makes arriving to the destination so much more fulfilling.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Dec 12, 2021 7:17:28 GMT -5
In the Syracuse second half , I think we got a preview of our backcourt of the future and it looked great- Beard and Dante. In the first half, Beard was beaten badly defensively 3 times in 3 minutes not including his blocked 3 which led to a transition basket , but let’s set that aside as a freshmen mistakes and focus on what he showed in the 2nd. In 7 second half minutes he had 4 assists putting on a masterclass at finding open players. It is becoming evident that Beard has the best vision on the team, and I don’t think it is close. He also seems to be the best finding the post particularly in an advantaged situation. Dante has strong handles, can penetrate to find his shot, can lock someone down defensively on the ball, and last year was automatic from the stripe in the clutch, but shot creating for others is not his strength. Beard appears to have this skill. Having both these players on the floor with either able to handle the ball is the beginning of a very formidable, elite back court Meanwhile, giving up some (not all) ball handling responsibilities will free Dante to be more of a scorer with his penetration. Where does this leave Riley? I think Riley is that 3rd guard to this duo. I am a HUGE Riley fan, but he is still adjusting right now to the college game. He has a big role to play, and it is playing alongside this duo. Meanwhile, Denver could rotate in for any of them with primary ball handling sliding to whomever remains on the floor. To all those “but it is his fifth year’ and. ‘Why aren’t we top 3 in the conference yet’ fans, stand back, take a breath, and watch (and enjoy) Ewing assemble this future team. Get off his back, stop stirring sh** up, and give time for things to come together like the flavors in a delicious gumbo. If you taste it too early while it is cooking, of course, it won’t taste finished because that is not how this works. It is going to be an exciting journey from the very bottom of the mountain (losing by 40+ In a closed scrimmage to a mediocre UVA team) to the very top. Here is the little understood part…it is the extreme challenges during the journey that makes arriving to the destination so much more fulfilling. I’m definitely on board with your last paragraph. That said, I don’t think Harris and Beard can be on the floor together for any extended period right now. Until one or both of them become better outside shooters, it’s just not going to work. You can’t have two undersized guards that can’t shoot the 3 out there together. Better, more athletic teams that Syracuse will feast on this backcourt. In small doses against the right matchup it might work, but the current versions of these players do not complement one another out there imo. As for Riley, that kid just needs to just shoot jumpers in the gym all day long on non-game days. If Anglin’s sharpshooting translates to the college game immediately next year, he’s going to have to play big minutes. Because barring significant improvements by guys on the current roster (or potential transfers in), we have exactly 0 deep threats for next season.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,427
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 12, 2021 7:26:35 GMT -5
In the Syracuse second half , I think we got a preview of our backcourt of the future and it looked great- Beard and Dante. In the first half, Beard was beaten badly defensively 3 times in 3 minutes not including his blocked 3 which led to a transition basket , but let’s set that aside as a freshmen mistakes and focus on what he showed in the 2nd. In 7 second half minutes he had 4 assists putting on a masterclass at finding open players. It is becoming evident that Beard has the best vision on the team, and I don’t think it is close. He also seems to be the best finding the post particularly in an advantaged situation. Dante has strong handles, can penetrate to find his shot, can lock someone down defensively on the ball, and last year was automatic from the stripe in the clutch, but shot creating for others is not his strength. Beard appears to have this skill. Having both these players on the floor with either able to handle the ball is the beginning of a very formidable, elite back court Meanwhile, giving up some (not all) ball handling responsibilities will free Dante to be more of a scorer with his penetration. Where does this leave Riley? I think Riley is that 3rd guard to this duo. I am a HUGE Riley fan, but he is still adjusting right now to the college game. He has a big role to play, and it is playing alongside this duo. Meanwhile, Denver could rotate in for any of them with primary ball handling sliding to whomever remains on the floor. To all those “but it is his fifth year’ and. ‘Why aren’t we top 3 in the conference yet’ fans, stand back, take a breath, and watch (and enjoy) Ewing assemble this future team. Get off his back, stop stirring sh** up, and give time for things to come together like the flavors in a delicious gumbo. If you taste it too early while it is cooking, of course, it won’t taste finished because that is not how this works. It is going to be an exciting journey from the very bottom of the mountain (losing by 40+ In a closed scrimmage to a mediocre UVA team) to the very top. Here is the little understood part…it is the extreme challenges during the journey that makes arriving to the destination so much more fulfilling. People want to always project who is the future starter or next backcourt or who the five should be off of limited results. I have been a huge fan of Beard's upside since we signed him. Back then I presumed he would have the huge advantage over Dante. Circumstances proved how wrong I was on that. That said I like how Beard runs a team and I already know he is an athletic freak. But to get ahead of ourselves after one small stretch in which Ewing played Harris and Beard together is all too typical of HoyaTalk. Hell, weren't there people trashing Beard not too long ago, weren't they trashing him in the first half against Syracuse? Now he is the future starter alongside Dante? Lets see how things plan out. My money is on Riley who has even more potential as a guard than the both of them to be honest but I am willing to wait and see.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Dec 12, 2021 14:55:35 GMT -5
I don't think it's better vision with Beard in comparison to Dante. It's Beard has a PGs mentality while Dante has a SGs mentality. Dante drops dimes but it's few and far between. You have to enter the play thinking about making the best play for the team. I think Dante is to use to in HS his play has usually been the best play for the team.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Dec 12, 2021 15:44:16 GMT -5
I would love to see more of Beard where he is given more freedom to shoot the ball!
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Dec 12, 2021 16:08:14 GMT -5
I don't think it's better vision with Beard in comparison to Dante. It's Beard has a PGs mentality while Dante has a SGs mentality. Dante drops dimes but it's few and far between. You have to enter the play thinking about making the best play for the team. I think Dante is to use to in HS his play has usually been the best play for the team. That might be part of it, but I think it is vision thing too. Too many of his passes find guys in tremendous position. The only thing is his recipients need to be ready for a potential fast ball coming to them.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Dec 12, 2021 16:18:02 GMT -5
I don't think it's better vision with Beard in comparison to Dante. It's Beard has a PGs mentality while Dante has a SGs mentality. Dante drops dimes but it's few and far between. You have to enter the play thinking about making the best play for the team. I think Dante is to use to in HS his play has usually been the best play for the team. That might be part of it, but I think it is vision thing too. Too many of his passes find guys in tremendous position. The only thing is his recipients need to be ready for a potential fast ball coming to them. Agree. His bounce passes to Aminu at the foul line yesterday were things of beauty.
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beenaround
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,475
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Post by beenaround on Dec 12, 2021 17:37:24 GMT -5
Aminu might end up being a better passer than anyone on this team.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Dec 13, 2021 9:07:47 GMT -5
LOVED seeing those two together on the court!!!
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 13, 2021 11:39:48 GMT -5
Dante has 5.1 apg and an assist rate over 30%, so I'm not quite sure where people are getting this weird "Dante doesn't assist people." Is this the new version of the ridiculous "pure point guard" debates?
Tyler seems to make some smart plays, but he's going to need to bring something more to the table -- he's not shooting well, he really can't get to the rim except in opportunistic drives and his defense has not been strong to date, though I expect that will improve rapidly. Jagan Moseley seems like a good stylistic comp if we're stuck with only Hoya to Hoya comps, though Moseley was a better defender early on (and I think Tyler has better passing chops to start).
I'm also just fairly confused on the idea that we're only going to play two guards ongoing. Biggest issue with this younger group seems to be that there isn't a lot of outside shooting here. Carey and Rice are bringing 59 made threes ... and everyone else on the team have 22.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Dec 13, 2021 16:12:00 GMT -5
Tyler reminds me a bit of Terrell Allen. Not going to dazzle anyone with his quickness, but seems to always been in control and moves the ball well. Allen wasn't an especially good shooter either, but as a senior at UCF and grad transfer with the Hoyas learned to pick his spots and made shots consistently to keep the D honest. I am pretty confident Tyler will find his stroke--he's only played a handful of college bball games with limited minutes. With confidence his shot will start falling. Not sure yet whether Tyler will develop Allen's commitment on D, but I feel that will come too.
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on Feb 6, 2022 16:47:34 GMT -5
O.K. -- It's Feb. 6 and we are a far cry from that great day when we beat Syracuse and Tyler was showing sweet promise. Now most people are thinking he's flawed and not ever going to be our PG, others think he needs more playing time (me), and others that Ewing has a short fuse with him and pulls him after a mistake and we never see him again. Lots of people think he will be gone next year.
My question: what did we see in Tyler that made him worth offering to? How did we see him fitting into our program and future? Whatever your answers are, the next question has to be Has he gotten a decent chance to show what he has, to prove that he is an important piece in the program? Taking into account that he is a freshman, that he will make mistakes, that he needs to grow and mature, my concern is has he had the chance to show what he can do? Does he get a chances to make a mistake, to learn a lesson, and to demonstrate he gets it?
If you read the comments from when he was playing well, people saw a future Hoya and intriguing backcourt; they were excited. Yes, BE play is steps up from OC play and he has struggled. In the end, I think anyone would have a hard time arguing that he has had a fair chance to learn, grow, and improve to be the person scouts and recruiters saw that made them offer him a spot here. If that's true, give him significant minutes in all the remaining games and let him play himself into (or out of) a spot on the team.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Feb 6, 2022 17:26:52 GMT -5
I will wait to pass judgment on Tyler as I think he could have a very bright future. Unlike Dante, Tyler is not getting lots of minutes. Dante has a much longer leash and I still would like to see Tyler allowed to play through his mistakes.
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hoyaroc
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyaroc on Feb 6, 2022 19:25:27 GMT -5
O.K. -- It's Feb. 6 and we are a far cry from that great day when we beat Syracuse and Tyler was showing sweet promise. Now most people are thinking he's flawed and not ever going to be our PG, others think he needs more playing time (me), and others that Ewing has a short fuse with him and pulls him after a mistake and we never see him again. Lots of people think he will be gone next year. My question: what did we see in Tyler that made him worth offering to? How did we see him fitting into our program and future? Whatever your answers are, the next question has to be Has he gotten a decent chance to show what he has, to prove that he is an important piece in the program? Taking into account that he is a freshman, that he will make mistakes, that he needs to grow and mature, my concern is has he had the chance to show what he can do? Does he get a chances to make a mistake, to learn a lesson, and to demonstrate he gets it? If you read the comments from when he was playing well, people saw a future Hoya and intriguing backcourt; they were excited. Yes, BE play is steps up from OC play and he has struggled. In the end, I think anyone would have a hard time arguing that he has had a fair chance to learn, grow, and improve to be the person scouts and recruiters saw that made them offer him a spot here. If that's true, give him significant minutes in all the remaining games and let him play himself into (or out of) a spot on the team. I totally agree. Beard deserve more minutes. Let him learn on the job and make mistakes.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Feb 6, 2022 20:35:52 GMT -5
This team is not close to "turning the corner" and becoming respectable with the current group that plays big minutes. There is nothing to lose and possibly something to gain from giving Beard and other young fellas legit minutes. Its hard to come off the bench cold, and know you'll be pulled as soon as you make a mistake. Now...to be clear, I have not seen nearly enough good things from Beard, to say he is a talent...but its time to find out.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Feb 7, 2022 8:25:58 GMT -5
I would like to see both of them together at times.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Feb 7, 2022 10:53:26 GMT -5
I would like to see both of them together at times. I really don't understand the lack of minutes for Beard at this point. I think Dante probably has a higher ceiling that Beard at this point in their careers and can give the team a little more offense when he is playing well, but he has not played very well for a few weeks now. Dante probably does deserve a few more minutes than Tyler, but not the huge difference we are seeing now. It certainly looks like Dante is dealing with some injury issues for the last few weeks, which makes the playing time situation even more bizarre. No one on this board really knows what goes on at practices, and maybe Dante is significantly outplaying Tyler in practices, but the difference between the two guys in games this year does not warrant Beard not playing in the second half of games, even if it is mostly just to give Dante a few minutes of rest. I am not thinking that Tyler is the sole answer to the team winning more games, because he has had some struggles in the limited minutes he has played, but he has shown enough good things to get more run than he has lately. It certainly seems like there is something beyond just basketball ability that is impacting this situation and unfortunately we are never likely to know what is really going on here.
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conshyhoya
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Post by conshyhoya on Feb 7, 2022 12:03:22 GMT -5
I would definitely like to see Beard get more minutes than the 4 he got yesterday with Dante playing bad and it being a complete blow out. I just don't know how it could be at PG. His TO% is now 30.1% which may be the highest I have ever seen from a PG playing almost 300 minutes. Maybe let him play off the ball with either Dante or Don being the PG until he gets some more experience. His best game was when he wasn't the primary ball handler for the majority of his minutes
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jester
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Post by jester on Feb 7, 2022 13:18:36 GMT -5
Being thin at PG really kills this team, which more than any other team I can remember hunts their own shots and has trouble creating easy baskets/playing off one another.
You just arent going to win in the BE with a guard with 1 assist, high turnovers, and no scoring. I just don't see the dropoff between him and Beard, and I a not sure how Ewing thinks playing him 4min in a game will help anyone (although we dont see practices, I also think we have enough actual live games to make some judgements on Beard).
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jester
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Post by jester on Feb 7, 2022 13:23:57 GMT -5
And I am counting the number of times Dante shoots with 17+ seconds left as a turnover, given the shooter he is, which is way too often and indicates he really has a long leash by Ewing. The announcers said during the game, you can't give away possessions in the BE, especially as a undermanned team, and its super frustrating/shows a lack of awareness by your game manager.
I love his quickness, but he hasnt yet worked out how to make that an asset to pass to someone cutting or draw the foul - too often he goes for contorting, circus shots instead of simply making the simple play and if he gets pushed around, make it to the line.
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