bluegray79
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,127
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Post by bluegray79 on Nov 26, 2021 9:07:38 GMT -5
A lot to like in this game and so much to tear my hair out about. It's a see-saw with this team -- I hate the mistakes & fouls that become easy points for the other team and I love their fight and scrappiness to claw back into the game. When things are flowing and going well, you can really foresee great things for this team. When they pull close after being down and then immediately give up 6-8 points and find themselves 10 down quickly, this guy is gonna lose some hair. It happened in their 2 losses, right? Took the lead against Dartmouth and a minute later they were 12 down & sinking. Last night, too. Not sure what the real time answer to that is.
But here's one big takeaway for me from this game: as many have said, our bigs are a real vulnerability. I'm actually o.k. with good fouls inside. They will get better at spacing and positioning with time I trust. BUT -- if one of the plusses for Ewing is his knowledge of the NBA game & getting big men to play that game, let's teach Tim and Ryan about up fakes, drawing fouls, and going up strong. No way they should be getting stuffed and blocked with no fouls that close to the basket. Would help a lot of everything else going on out on the floor.
All that being said, I do really like this team. Totally with the fans above who find themselves up late at night watching these guys. I just have to keep reminding myself of how young this team is. When they showed the graphic of the seniors, juniors, etc. on SDSU, it helped me understand -- but still tear my hair out -- about the turnovers, the lack of assists, and the center position. But, hey, we're 4 games in and a long road ahead. Just hope I have enough hair to make it to March.
Hoya Saxa
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dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,489
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Post by dchoya72 on Nov 26, 2021 9:30:59 GMT -5
A lot to like in this game and so much to tear my hair out about. It's a see-saw with this team -- I hate the mistakes & fouls that become easy points for the other team and I love their fight and scrappiness to claw back into the game. When things are flowing and going well, you can really foresee great things for this team. When they pull close after being down and then immediately give up 6-8 points and find themselves 10 down quickly, this guy is gonna lose some hair. It happened in their 2 losses, right? Took the lead against Dartmouth and a minute later they were 12 down & sinking. Last night, too. Not sure what the real time answer to that is. But here's one big takeaway for me from this game: as many have said, our bigs are a real vulnerability. I'm actually o.k. with good fouls inside. They will get better at spacing and positioning with time I trust. BUT -- if one of the plusses for Ewing is his knowledge of the NBA game & getting big men to play that game, let's teach Tim and Ryan about up fakes, drawing fouls, and going up strong. No way they should be getting stuffed and blocked with no fouls that close to the basket. Would help a lot of everything else going on out on the floor. All that being said, I do really like this team. Totally with the fans above who find themselves up late at night watching these guys. I just have to keep reminding myself of how young this team is. When they showed the graphic of the seniors, juniors, etc. on SDSU, it helped me understand -- but still tear my hair out -- about the turnovers, the lack of assists, and the center position. But, hey, we're 4 games in and a long road ahead. Just hope I have enough hair to make it to March. Hoya Saxa I hope you have enough hair to sustain this campaign. Losing King hurts a lot. We have no substitute for what he appeared to be bringing. We're very young, and not physically strong. I like the young guys, and need to see much more from Tim and Malcolm. Mutombo will need to play and develop experience. Seems like a tough season before us unless a hero, a big, strong, skilled team-oriented player arrives. How likely is that?
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Massholya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,004
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Post by Massholya on Nov 26, 2021 9:39:23 GMT -5
Read this thread first. Watched the game this morning. Hard for me to be real negative about this game. Basically a road game against a top 25 team. We were not outclassed in this game. Competitive game throughout. Would have been a nail biter if we got any significant scoring outside of Dante and Aminu. Defense remains an area of needed improvement. Feel like this team is on its way to finding its stride.
As an aside did anyone catch the last 17 seconds of the UConn game? That Hurley guy should be fired. What terrible end of game management. How can he draw that up? Didn’t even get a shot off down 3. Totally outcoached.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,214
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 26, 2021 9:39:46 GMT -5
I'm happy to admit I know nothing about basketball if we lost by 17 to the Aztecs because of Dante. That's not what I'm saying. What Dante does well is score but in order for GTown to improve we need Dante to be a better passer. With his handles and speed Dante should be able to make clean looks for his teammates at will but he because he's always been score first he doesn't know how to manipulate the D for easy offense. That's his job as PG Here’s a quote from the SDSU coach, this is the correct way to play Harris in my view… “That was the big emphasis of the game,” said Dutcher, whose players worked all week staying attached to shooters instead of helping on drives. “College basketball games are hard to win if you don’t make the 3. Our first four opponents haven’t made very many, and they’re all good 3-point shooting teams. We’re not giving up the 3-point shot.”
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,837
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Post by hoyazeke on Nov 26, 2021 9:43:45 GMT -5
Ewing really needs to start getting Beard, Bills, Ryan and Riley ready. The goal should be preparing for next year... I will take “things that were said all of last year about last years freshmen and that were never done” for $200. I never said this about last year's recruiting class. I like Dante, Kobe, and Holloway but only Dante has potential above role player. Aminu, Jordan, Ryan, Bills and Tyler have Pro potential. Hell Aminu is a pro as soon as he wants to be. Not really the same.
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hoopsmccan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,433
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Post by hoopsmccan on Nov 26, 2021 9:48:15 GMT -5
What the hell did this guys do the night before the game? They looked tired. What an ugly performance by team captain Don. This was an experienced team vs an inexperienced one. They were tougher than us. Pat was outcoached from the moment he overthought the rotation and took out Dante and Aminu in yhe first half. The rest of the way was uphill. Just curious, do you think a team can lose without the losing team being outcoached? hm
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daveg023
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,364
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Post by daveg023 on Nov 26, 2021 9:51:59 GMT -5
That's not what I'm saying. What Dante does well is score but in order for GTown to improve we need Dante to be a better passer. With his handles and speed Dante should be able to make clean looks for his teammates at will but he because he's always been score first he doesn't know how to manipulate the D for easy offense. That's his job as PG Here’s a quote from the SDSU coach, this is the correct way to play Harris in my view… “That was the big emphasis of the game,” said Dutcher, whose players worked all week staying attached to shooters instead of helping on drives. “College basketball games are hard to win if you don’t make the 3. Our first four opponents haven’t made very many, and they’re all good 3-point shooting teams. We’re not giving up the 3-point shot.” ^^^ This Anyone see how Pitino and Iona beat #10 Alabama yesterday? They limited the amount of 3’s they took, for a team that was averaging over 30 attempts a game. Talent or not, Ewing has never once implemented a defensive plan focused on this. I just don’t get why it’s so obvious to us yet a coaching staff who has forgotten more basketball than we’ll ever know has not done anything to counter this in 5 years. Is it stubbornness? Player execution? An outdated approach? I get it’s easier said than done, but it just seems like there’s been no effort made to do anything different in this regard, while the entire sport has only shifted more to firing 3s up at an increased rate.
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Massholya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,004
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Post by Massholya on Nov 26, 2021 9:52:56 GMT -5
What the hell did this guys do the night before the game? They looked tired. What an ugly performance by team captain Don. This was an experienced team vs an inexperienced one. They were tougher than us. Pat was outcoached from the moment he overthought the rotation and took out Dante and Aminu in yhe first half. The rest of the way was uphill. Just curious, do you think a team can lose without the losing team being outcoached? hm “Outcoached” is most overused word on this board.
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dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,489
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Post by dchoya72 on Nov 26, 2021 9:57:08 GMT -5
Talent and experience wins! We have talent but not experience. Playing at 9 pm/12 midnight after traveling 3,000 miles over 36 hours did not help our chances.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Nov 26, 2021 9:57:17 GMT -5
Handful of thoughts:
My primary concern with this group is the same as with some prior Ewing teams: Defensive identity and execution. It seems to me that the staff struggles each year to find the defensive identity that works with a particular group. And that group seems to struggle (particularly early in seasons) with whatever we go with. Each year, we've done things slightly differently. This year, so far, it looks like we are pressuring the ball just a bit more than in previous years and emphasizing team help a fair amount (which is the same as most previous years). So far? We seem to be getting blown by far too often without the turnovers that the pressure should create. And our help has been in the nature of over-help, leading to way too many open looks. I don't know if our guards need to be just a little more solid rather than ball-hawking. Or if at some point, we can rely on our 5s to protect the paint and therefore allow the other players to stay more at home. But it's a significant problem right now. To be clear, I don't mind trying it -- Dante and Aminu ought to be able to provide the pressure without getting beat. But if for whatever reason it doesn't work, we have to move to something else quickly. I'm not concerned by the blocks of Mutombo. He seems to have good instincts, good hands, and is in the right place. When you've been able to go up your whole life and lay those in, it takes a while to learn to do something else.
Offensively? We just aren't good enough individually. I think it's really that simple. Dante can create his own shot at will, and if the outside Js are going down, he's able to keep us in games all by himself. Aminu is athletic and skilled enough to get to the hole. Teams are going to start giving him outside looks, though, which is going to be an issue once fully scouted unless he can hit at a higher percentage. Neither of them is great passers once they beat their man. And aside from them? Well...we have no post presence (maybe Mutombo can grow to provide one but the other two won't). Our starting wings are incredibly inconsistent and appear to be extremely limited against decent competition. Given their ages, that seems unlikely to change. Do our young backup guards/wings develop? Billingsley? The guys who were hurt at the beginning of the year?
In short, this team will rise and fall on whether the staff can find a defensive approach that suits them and on whether the younger guys can develop on both ends quickly and enough (and whether the staff plays them enough and sits the vets if the youngsters do develop).
Oh, and we got a little unlucky on bounces. I think three long shots in the 1H were bricked to the rim, bounced high, and rattled in. That provided the margin at the break. Unfortunate.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Nov 26, 2021 10:07:11 GMT -5
What the hell did this guys do the night before the game? They looked tired. What an ugly performance by team captain Don. This was an experienced team vs an inexperienced one. They were tougher than us. Pat was outcoached from the moment he overthought the rotation and took out Dante and Aminu in yhe first half. The rest of the way was uphill. I mean, we were -4 as a team with both of them out of the game. I'd rather you stagger it also since they're clearly the only two guys that can actually create their own shot among the starters. But it wasn't like it was a complete disaster or anything. And it was only for two minutes.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,649
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Nov 26, 2021 10:20:01 GMT -5
1. Only 2 points out of your three centers. Plus, they got out muscled. 2. Need Carey or Rice to produce to win. 3rd producer is critical after Harris and Mohammed. 3. 5 points from your bench isn’t going to cut it. 4. Need to win now and can’t worry about development for next season.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 26, 2021 10:20:59 GMT -5
What the hell did this guys do the night before the game? They looked tired. What an ugly performance by team captain Don.This was an experienced team vs an inexperienced one. They were tougher than us. Pat was outcoached from the moment he overthought the rotation and took out Dante and Aminu in yhe first half. The rest of the way was uphill. Well by the end of the 2nd half it was 1:43 AM. I'm not sure why the tournament organizer's thought it was a good idea to schedule our game at midnight. They could have easily put us in the 10 pm slot or earlier in the day.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,219
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Post by hoya9797 on Nov 26, 2021 10:31:59 GMT -5
Just curious, do you think a team can lose without the losing team being outcoached? hm “Outcoached” is most overused word on this board. It’s one of the most frequently used words but that’s for good reason.
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rhw485
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 748
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Post by rhw485 on Nov 26, 2021 10:48:48 GMT -5
When I saw the final score when I woke up this morning I was dreading watching the tape. After running through the DVR, I almost feel better? - I came to Hoyatalk first, figuring I'd get a quick sense of the game before watching. And I had to read multiple pages of back and forth focused on Dante...honestly I have no idea how the takeaway was anything negative toward Dante. He literally kept us afloat in the first half. It was a 4 point game with under 10 min left...and the team ran out of gas. Focusing on the guy who carried us to keep the game competitive as opposed to the no-shows by upperclassmen is just surprising. I continue to have more concerns about the 3 point shot than I'd like given the form change but otherwise still trending up.
- Not sure what more there is to say about Aminu. Completely rose to the occasion. Continues to grind out baskets and steal points with his motor. What a powerful drive to the hoop and lefty layup, with a laughable review on top. I still think he should only be taking catch and shoot 3s, but the step up in competition wasn't a problem. Posting him up is sometimes our best half court offense
- Speaking of step up in competition, yikes for Carey. I've been complimentary of Don's last two games, where he was able to use his dribble to get to the hoop and create for others, while fully acknowledging no idea on whether it would play when the competition steps up. Well 0-1 on that front. And to top if off, missed some catch and shoot 3s unrelated to him creating offense. Throw in a bad Rice game and that's just too much to put on Dante and Aminu
- The game definitely turned toward the end of the first half, unfortunately Mutombo showed he's a freshman with some weak finishes and bringing the ball down in the lane. Throw in some good out of bounds execution for SD St to generate some easy baskets, a lucky bounce on the 3 at the end, and its an 8 point game in what was really an evenly matched 1st half.
- When Holloway didn't play against Siena, I suggested we wouldn't see him this week because that would just be unfair to him. Well, the results were about as expected. 8 minutes, 0-2, 3 turnovers. Surprised he was used as the small ball 5 instead of Billingsley, neither were great but Billingsley has at least a chance of protecting the rim. Either way I don't think he should be driving from the 3 point line.
- Outside of Aminu, the freshmen struggle in the halfcourt. Riley was a nonfactor, Billingsley had the alley-oop but not much else. Beard maybe should've been used more to spell Dante so he didn't gas out but I understand why Ewing didn't want to pull him off the court
- Tim had a pretty solid 2nd half all things considered. The 2nd foul was just so bad. Why are we passing the ball to Tim with one foot at the 3 point line and clearing out. That's more on Ewing and Rice (for passing to him) than anything else. Just silly but he's clearly our best chance at center position with maybe Billingsley sprinkled in a little more at the 5.
Bottom line...the margin for error is pretty low for this team, the defense still needs to tighten up and we're not going to do well against high volume 3 point teams. But we've seen great individual offensive games from Carey, Rice, Aminu, and Dante. We're definitely going to be inconsistent. Need the freshmen to be comfortable in the halfcourt to add depth and it could look presentable in February.
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SDHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,360
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Post by SDHoya on Nov 26, 2021 11:09:03 GMT -5
To sum this game up in four words: Losing Tre King hurts.
Dante and Aminu were excellent. Don picked a bad time to have his worst game in blue and grey. Big Tim is what he is and did decently on D,, but we just have no scoring threat whatsoever inside from him or any of our other bigs.
That being said, SDSU doesn’t have absurd luck in the first half, and Dante’s three goes all the way down instead of half way, and we may be prepping for USC now. I’m hoping the farce of the last 8 minutes or so an aberration from an exhausted group.
No time like the present to bounce back v. St. Joes.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 26, 2021 11:15:50 GMT -5
Ewing really needs to start getting Beard, Bills, Ryan and Riley ready. The goal should be preparing for next year... If he was smart, this is exactly what he would be doing. Play for next year and hope the fan base gives him enough goodwill to get an extension. He’s not going anywhere with Carey, Rice and Ighoefe. It's frustrating that we've been playing for next year for 4 years. And then after each season, our good players transfer, and then we are again playing for next year. I'm sick and tired of this cycle.
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Post by BeantownHoya on Nov 26, 2021 11:19:18 GMT -5
Here’s a quote from the SDSU coach, this is the correct way to play Harris in my view… “That was the big emphasis of the game,” said Dutcher, whose players worked all week staying attached to shooters instead of helping on drives. “College basketball games are hard to win if you don’t make the 3. Our first four opponents haven’t made very many, and they’re all good 3-point shooting teams. We’re not giving up the 3-point shot.” ^^^ This Anyone see how Pitino and Iona beat #10 Alabama yesterday? They limited the amount of 3’s they took, for a team that was averaging over 30 attempts a game. Talent or not, Ewing has never once implemented a defensive plan focused on this. I just don’t get why it’s so obvious to us yet a coaching staff who has forgotten more basketball than we’ll ever know has not done anything to counter this in 5 years. Is it stubbornness? Player execution? An outdated approach? I get it’s easier said than done, but it just seems like there’s been no effort made to do anything different in this regard, while the entire sport has only shifted more to firing 3s up at an increased rate. THIS... I am not going to begin to pretend I understand bball to the same level as the staff but I can see statistically and with my eyes we continue to focus on an aggressive help style defense that also seems to collapse on every single drive in the lane that consistently leaves wide open 3's. Granted SDSU last night his some shots out of their a$$ but the problem remains clear. We went zone 1 time last night and it resulted in a stop. I'm not advocating for a zone all the time but I am advocating for us to alter our schemes as the game progresses. I did like the press, felt it was effective I don't recall a ton of turnovers from it but also don't recall us being burned with it either. So credit there. At this point though something has to change with our defensive strategy. I have heard the excuse we are too young, it's the players in the wrong position, not enough talent, etc etc etc for 5 years - but at some point this is on Ewing. Athletically this team feels like it can get stops and the effort/desire is there...they are simply not being set up to succeed and at some point that's on the staff. I mean honestly any switch to a different strategy couldn't hurt if you ask me...
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,477
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Post by TC on Nov 26, 2021 11:20:07 GMT -5
I will take “things that were said all of last year about last years freshmen and that were never done” for $200. I never said this about last year's recruiting class. I like Dante, Kobe, and Holloway but only Dante has potential above role player. Aminu, Jordan, Ryan, Bills and Tyler have Pro potential. Hell Aminu is a pro as soon as he wants to be. Not really the same. Never said you said it - but a lot of us did say that we'd need a three point shooter (Berger) and that Wilson and Holloway and Sibley and Clark would not have enough experience, and we lost two out of the five to transfer and you have to wonder whether them being shorted time played into it. And before anyone starts saying that TJ Berger wasn't good enough, Berger is currently shooting above 50% from three and above 50% from the field, and Georgetown shot 4-20 from three last night. At some point you have to give the kids you recruit minutes to (a) see what you have and (b) to give them enough experience so that they can play a role. If you're not willing to do that, might as well just recruit transfers and completely abdicate having any role developing players or educating athletes.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 26, 2021 11:20:09 GMT -5
If he was smart, this is exactly what he would be doing. Play for next year and hope the fan base gives him enough goodwill to get an extension. He’s not going anywhere with Carey, Rice and Ighoefe. It's frustrating that we've been playing for next year for 4 years. And then after each season, our good players transfer, and then we are again playing for next year. I'm sick and tired of this cycle. That's a false narrative. Last year, we played for last year. Don't you remember, you were complaining that Coach Ewing shouldn't play Bile and should develop Berger, Holloway, Sibley, etc for "next year". That Coach Ewing didn't know what he was doing by playing for this (last season) year. How quickly we forget. BET Champions.
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