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Post by aleutianhoya on May 14, 2021 9:28:57 GMT -5
You know, maybe it's just because because I am an immigrant myself, but I feel like I should point out that a fanbase supporting a University whose most famous player and now head coach of its flagship program is himself foreign born...might want to tread carefully when implying that the participation - or, past some theoretical limit, 'overparticipation' - of foreign-born student athletes constitutes a "mockery of US college athletics." Yes, indeed, track and field too. Maybe someone should tell Alton McKenzie that he took away a spot at Georgetown from a deserving U.S. native (I know that's *not* what you're saying, Nevada. I'd just like to remind others that Ewing is not the only foreign-born Hoya alum and head coach). I just question the notion that this is really a problem. There's like literally hundreds of professional leagues around the globe in which you can make money playing soccer - how many high-quality players are going to instead choose to play for a U.S. college, where most players don't even get full scholarships? Much less do so as an adult, Chris Weinke-style? Track and field is obviously not so lucrative globally, but again, what is the inherent problem that, for example, the women's cross country champion is one Mercy Chelangat, originally of Kericho, Kenya (for the record, her birthdate is July 11, 1997, making her 23 years old)? We've got a lot of PhD programs full of foreign-born prodigies too, many of whom stay in the U.S. and contribute to our society in myriad ways. They might even have won some science competitions along the way or whatever, especially if they came to the states at a younger age. Not sure why any of this is a bad thing. I was just pointing the fact out and hoping to get others opinions. I could have easily been born outside the US and lived abroad my first seven years. The announcers of the game harped on the statistic, otherwise I wouldn’t have been the wiser. I went to a Manhattanville hockey game a number of years back and noticed that many of its starters were Russian. The coach recruited non-US players as a strategy to be competitive. I agree that the primary issue is age. You simply shouldn't have a team of 25 year olds. I don't know enough about the situation to know if they really is a true issue. As for "international" players, I think it's akin to obscenity...I know it crosses the line when I see it. Having an entire team of international residents (and FWIW, I don't include immigrants, green-card holders, etc in that definition) just doesn't feel within the spirit of the enterprise. Russky is completely right to point out that many internationals will end up staying in the US and contributing. No one has an issue with that. And I have no issue with a handful coming, getting an education, playing soccer, and returning home. Just doesn't feel right if essentially your whole team is that way, particularly at a school where that sort of diversity doesn't exist campus-wide. Georgetown has a lot of foreign students overall...so some on the soccer team seems completely appropriate. Marshall?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 14, 2021 10:43:49 GMT -5
Getting some attention elsewhere, too.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on May 14, 2021 14:32:52 GMT -5
Getting some attention elsewhere, too. A perhaps-relevant anecdote: when I was studying abroad in Prague, one of the CIEE staff members who were our administrators/quasi-chaperones was a woman in her...late 20s? Early 30s? named Lenka. Lenka had been quite a basketball player in her youth and ended up getting a pair of scholarship offers from U.S. universities: Arkansas State and... Georgetown. But she didn't know anything about the two schools, really, certainly didn't have the funds to visit, so she chose the warmer climate of Jonesboro. For many abroad, the biggest draw of U.S. college soccer isn't the "soccer," it's the "college." To many foreign employers, a U.S. university education is a massive differentiator, and they're not digging out USNWR to differentiate among schools.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 14, 2021 19:20:43 GMT -5
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on May 14, 2021 19:32:24 GMT -5
I will root very hard for Marshall to lose.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on May 15, 2021 13:51:17 GMT -5
I will root very hard for Marshall to lose. They are a very pesky team and followed a very similar formula in taking down JNC as they did against us. I hold no ill will against them. Pitt on the other hand...I'm still annoyed at Jay Vidovich over his comments after we beat them last Tourney, so I was none too disappointed to see the Panthers lose to Indiana, even though the latter are NCAA soccer blue bloods and denied us a title the first time around. Pitt dominated the run of play for most of the contest, and the woodwork came to the Hoosiers' rescue just as it did Marshall's. But in this case, with Indiana being a "they don't rebuild, they reload" kind of program, a special kid made an extremely special play, and that was that. Very entertaining night of soccer. Ironic that you could say both winners had less of the run of play in these semis in ideal weather conditions. Compare that to the last College Cup, where the clearly better teams won both semis despite a torrential downpour.
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Massholya
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Post by Massholya on May 15, 2021 16:22:52 GMT -5
Div 1 college ski teams are almost entirely made up of international athletes, most well into their 20’s. US athletes largely cannot compete as most of these internationals come out of the much more developed European amateur circuit and have usually been skiing several years more than kids coming out of high school in the US. With exception of kids coming out of a few elite and expensive ski academies there is just no way for them to make up the disadvantage of less time. Not saying good or bad. Just an example.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 15, 2021 17:32:18 GMT -5
As for "international" players, I think it's akin to obscenity...I know it crosses the line when I see it. Having an entire team of international residents (and FWIW, I don't include immigrants, green-card holders, etc in that definition) just doesn't feel within the spirit of the enterprise. Russky is completely right to point out that many internationals will end up staying in the US and contributing. No one has an issue with that. And I have no issue with a handful coming, getting an education, playing soccer, and returning home. Just doesn't feel right if essentially your whole team is that way, particularly at a school where that sort of diversity doesn't exist campus-wide. Georgetown has a lot of foreign students overall...so some on the soccer team seems completely appropriate. Marshall? The use of international students isn't new. The 1971 Howard University championship soccer team was all international students and the NCAA vacated the title over sketchy eligibility from some players as old as 25. The University of Arkansas has been a dominant track program with a heavy foreign contingent, having produced over 30 Olympians since 1984, two-thirds of them competing for other countries. Georgetown has the reputation of being a school with a lot of international students but the numbers can be misleading. Variously reported as 14% international, that number is mostly outside the undergraduate community, where it is closer to 7%. Some sports are an easier draw for international students (track, soccer) versus those decidedly more American in nature (baseball, football), but as a whole, international athlete recruiting is not a priority at GU because the majority of aid is need-blind and international students are, in most cases, not eligible for this aid.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on May 17, 2021 22:44:27 GMT -5
Georgetown has the reputation of being a school with a lot of international students but the numbers can be misleading. Variously reported as 14% international, that number is mostly outside the undergraduate community, where it is closer to 7%. As with so many things, the data is...nuanced. The 7% figure that appears on the Undergraduate Profile (https://georgetown.app.box.com/s/z4tgwmps28jo4hd83i1migipgjw43uuo) is based on the location of the high school, rather than the citizenship or immigration status of the student. Thus, a Singaporean national at Choate or an undocumented native of Guatemala who graduated from Temecula Valley High would not show up as internationals, while a Bay Area-born son of parents who held only U.S. passports, but who attended the American School in Japan (here I am describing my roommate my freshman and sophomore years), would show up as international. We do some apples and oranges mixing on that Profile, I admit. Anyway, Marshall wins in OT. Hard to be too upset - Indiana's got enough stars above their crest as it is. Time to bust up the old boys' club.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 18, 2021 0:03:45 GMT -5
I will root very hard for Marshall to lose. oof
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hoyaduck
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Post by hoyaduck on May 18, 2021 10:14:06 GMT -5
Interesting. I usually cheer for the team that knocks my team out. I feel like it validates the loss somewhat haha. It is cool to see two teams that aren't powerhouses claim the men and women's titles.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on May 18, 2021 11:33:33 GMT -5
I guess when you recruit 25 year old international players to complete against teenagers, it’s a viable strategy, especially in an international sport. What have the Marshall players really achieved? My guess is that others will mimic this model.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on May 18, 2021 11:35:43 GMT -5
Interesting. I usually cheer for the team that knocks my team out. I feel like it validates the loss somewhat haha. It is cool to see two teams that aren't powerhouses claim the men and women's titles. Well Santa Clara has won the women's soccer title in the past. The WCC has been (and I guess still is) a hotbed of women's soccer with the University of Portland (my son's alma mater) has won it twice with Christine Sinclair and Megan Rapinoe on championship teams.
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Post by flyoverhoya on May 19, 2021 13:32:03 GMT -5
I guess when you recruit 25 year old international players to complete against teenagers, it’s a viable strategy, especially in an international sport. What have the Marshall players really achieved? My guess is that others will mimic this model. Common in rowing too. Tough to be a coxswain at some of the powerhouses when you need to speak 5 languages just to communicate with everyone in an 8+.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on May 25, 2021 9:01:21 GMT -5
Jacob Montes signs with Crystal Palace.
This is huge as he goes from the Hilltop to England.
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Post by HometownHoya on May 25, 2021 9:50:53 GMT -5
Jacob Montes signs with Crystal Palace. This is huge as he goes from the Hilltop to England. Dang, not many players go from college to Premier League...that's huge from the program. Good luck to Jacob, hope he can break into 1st team minutes.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on May 25, 2021 11:21:44 GMT -5
Pretty damn impressive.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 25, 2021 13:23:39 GMT -5
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Post by FHillsNYHoya on May 26, 2021 19:55:18 GMT -5
From my favorite collegiate team to my favorite professional team!!
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Post by thunderingherdfan on Jul 6, 2021 11:47:32 GMT -5
I guess when you recruit 25 year old international players to complete against teenagers, it’s a viable strategy, especially in an international sport. What have the Marshall players really achieved? My guess is that others will mimic this model. I don’t know where you’re getting the 25 year old thing with Marshall. The team’s average age was 21-ish (counting the deep roster of young players who didn’t get on the pitch in the tournament). I understand some teams may have done this in the past, but this isn’t what Marshall is doing. Semmle, the GK, turned 23 in the Spring. Sirk, a reserve D who took part in PK’s vs. Clemson turned 21 in December. Dossantos, a D, turned 22 in April. Yosef, a F, is 22. Fernandes, a MF, I could not find. However he played in a high school all star game in Connecticut in the Fall of 2017, so that would put him in the 21-yr old range. Dolabella, a MF, is 21 (will be 22 at end of month). Roberts, a F who scored goals in Round of 8, semis and the final, turned 23 in June. Alves, a D, is either 21 or 22 (couldn’t find his definitive age). Mocyunas, a D, is 22. Schneider, a MF who scored against Clemson, will turn 20 at the end of this month. Leinhos, a D, turned 24 during the College Cup. Dias, a MF and Hermann semifinalist who assited on Roberts’ goals, I could not find his DOB. I would purely guess 22, but I can’t say with certainty. My point was to simply dispel that particular notion since it was unchallenged here. Georgetown has an amazing program and was outstanding in 2020. I have no doubt they’ll be a threat again this Fall. Nothing but respect for you guys and your team!
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