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Post by HamptonHoya on Jun 21, 2021 8:52:40 GMT -5
Over the years, I have come to accept that GU is not the "cool" school. We are not meant for the casual fan. Unless you attended the University, only the hard core fans understand what the University meant and still means. Harmon gets it and he passed it onto Aminu and he gets it. Terrance Williams father got it, Terrance did not and that's alright. Terrance chose what he believes is right for him and we wish him the best. I am sure Coach tells every recruit they can help restore the luster to the program. Some see it and sign up, others see it and find a better fit elsewhere, others can't see it at all. I am riding with the ones who stick it out and leave the program in a better place than when they arrived.
Very seldom will a Duke fan have Georgetown as their second squad and vice versa. Different programs, and nothing wrong with that. Respect what Coach K has done for their program and for basketball.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 21, 2021 9:43:49 GMT -5
Over the years, I have come to accept that GU is not the "cool" school. We are not meant for the casual fan. Unless you attended the University, only the hard core fans understand what the University meant and still means. Harmon gets it and he passed it onto Aminu and he gets it. Terrance Williams father got it, Terrance did not and that's alright. Terrance chose what he believes is right for him and we wish him the best. I am sure Coach tells every recruit they can help restore the luster to the program. Some see it and sign up, others see it and find a better fit elsewhere, others can't see it at all. I am riding with the ones who stick it out and leave the program in a better place than when they arrived. I don't understand the point. Georgetown has been marketed to the small-c casual fan for years. There were fans for years who didn't know Georgetown as Catholic, or thought it was an HBCU. A big chunk of the home attendance base is not alumni, and probably wouldn't know the difference between McDonough Gymnasium and McDonough Hall. That's OK, by the way. I also don't think the "hard core fans understand what the University meant and still means"--maybe you can explain this one. It's not going to be easy to restore luster to a program when any player is not committed beyond one or two semesters of study. Otherwise, you're on the hamster wheel that St. John's basketball has become for the last 20 years. When was the last four year player of consequence for the Redmen that you can remember?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2021 9:53:08 GMT -5
Over the years, I have come to accept that GU is not the "cool" school. We are not meant for the casual fan. Unless you attended the University, only the hard core fans understand what the University meant and still means. Harmon gets it and he passed it onto Aminu and he gets it. Terrance Williams father got it, Terrance did not and that's alright. Terrance chose what he believes is right for him and we wish him the best. I am sure Coach tells every recruit they can help restore the luster to the program. Some see it and sign up, others see it and find a better fit elsewhere, others can't see it at all. I am riding with the ones who stick it out and leave the program in a better place than when they arrived. Very seldom will a Duke fan have Georgetown as their second squad and vice versa. Different programs, and nothing wrong with that. Respect what Coach K has done for their program and for basketball. It's the same for Duke. Kids go to Duke because of the prestige, same with Kentucky, same with Villanova. So yeah some of the kids might not have Georgetown as their second choice. That's not the point. My point is that if I am a Duke alumnus trying to sell a kid on Duke, prestige would be a selling point that I would use. If I am an alumnus trying to sell Georgetown, I am selling legacy and helping to restore legacy along with a great school, a top tier basketball conference in the Big East, and the chance to play in DC where you have tons of resources and great job opportunities after graduation among other things. By no way am I comparing program for program. I'm old enough to remember when Coach K was a peon trying to get his program to the next level, while Georgetown was building a legacy and all the kids wanted to come to Georgetown, and all it took was one recruit from the DC area and it changed everything for Duke. Now Duke is a pipeline for top recruits all over the country and it was because of one recruit Danny Ferry of Dematha that got the program rolling. Danny was highly sought after by college coaches when he was at Dematha. One day hopefully, Georgetown will get to the level of Duke and Coach K and that is...it will be considered a prestigious program due to the legacy that hopefully Coach Ewing will be able to restore with the help of top recruits.
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Post by tsumadness on Jun 21, 2021 11:15:44 GMT -5
Over the years, I have come to accept that GU is not the "cool" school. We are not meant for the casual fan. Unless you attended the University, only the hard core fans understand what the University meant and still means. Harmon gets it and he passed it onto Aminu and he gets it. Terrance Williams father got it, Terrance did not and that's alright. Terrance chose what he believes is right for him and we wish him the best. I am sure Coach tells every recruit they can help restore the luster to the program. Some see it and sign up, others see it and find a better fit elsewhere, others can't see it at all. I am riding with the ones who stick it out and leave the program in a better place than when they arrived. Very seldom will a Duke fan have Georgetown as their second squad and vice versa. Different programs, and nothing wrong with that. Respect what Coach K has done for their program and for basketball. Not true. I’ve been a big fan of the Hoyas and Big East since Ewing. I read your board almost daily, but never attended Georgetown. Other than my own university, there are three or four other teams I follow and make sure I catch nearly every game, and Georgetown is one of them.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 21, 2021 13:06:45 GMT -5
Once again, there goes that goal again mentioned by Mr. Harmon, "restoring the Georgetown brand to bring back to a level of excellence". Main goal. But recruits ain't interested in that. All they care about is playing time according to Hoyatalk. hoyafansinceewingera - I appreciate the intensity you have for this point. I think you are partially right, but it really comes down to marketing. All high major schools make some kind of argument along these lines, but it really depends on your history, and where you are as a program. There are a few categories: (1) Top Success Programs. In this category, I would largely put the blood bloods, plus other programs that happen to have won a lot in the last ten years. Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, Villanova, Gonzaga, UNC, etc. The one common thread in these programs is they mostly already have a very good coach. So, these programs recruit by selling their winning, sending players to the NBA, etc. These schools generally suck up most of the top recruits for this reason. Georgetown was arguably in this category from 2007-2010-ish. Maybe even a little longer. (2) Programs with history of success, but little to no recent success. There aren't a ton of programs in this category, as many/most of the historically good programs are in the category above. But, you get programs like UCLA which spent a few years in the wilderness, but also programs like Georgetown, St. John's, and a few others. These programs can market themselves as restoring the legacy. This is the best marketing pitch - join a program that was once great, and make it top again. (3) Programs on the Rise. These would be programs that struggled but have improved. This would definitely be Georgetown circa 2004-2006ish (combined with #2). These programs usually have new-ish coaches and a fair amount of success to build on. You can market to recruits as a program on the rise. I know some HoyaTalkers think we are here, but we are not. But, if we make the NCAA tournament this season, we could be in this category after this year. (4) Let's Build Something! This is very similar to #2 without the legacy. In this category, I would have put Beard's first few years where he was building something at Texas Tech, for example. (5) Everyone else. For programs that (a) have no history of success, (b) are not on the rise, and (c) do not have a coach offering anything unique, it's tough to market in this manner. Those programs need to recruit more in what the school can offer, what the individual coaches can offer, etc. Perhaps unique aspects of the institution that apply to certain guys. This is a long way of saying that Georgetown is going to market itself to recruits as rebuilding the legacy because it has to - there really is no other pitch to be made. And, in our case, this particularly works because Ewing is the coach, and so rebuilding the legacy is consistent. So, of course our recruits are going to say that. I still think, overall, the bigger factors for these kids are their connections with the coach, and how they see themselves developing in the next year or two. For some kids, I am sure there are other factors, but I think the "rebuilding the legacy" pitch is more of a sideshow and supplement to other more important factors. But, it is still relevant in pitching recruits.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2021 13:35:01 GMT -5
Once again, there goes that goal again mentioned by Mr. Harmon, "restoring the Georgetown brand to bring back to a level of excellence". Main goal. But recruits ain't interested in that. All they care about is playing time according to Hoyatalk. hoyafansinceewingera - I appreciate the intensity you have for this point. I think you are partially right, but it really comes down to marketing. All high major schools make some kind of argument along these lines, but it really depends on your history, and where you are as a program. There are a few categories: (1) Top Success Programs. In this category, I would largely put the blood bloods, plus other programs that happen to have won a lot in the last ten years. Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, Villanova, Gonzaga, UNC, etc. The one common thread in these programs is they mostly already have a very good coach. So, these programs recruit by selling their winning, sending players to the NBA, etc. These schools generally suck up most of the top recruits for this reason. Georgetown was arguably in this category from 2007-2010-ish. Maybe even a little longer. (2) Programs with history of success, but little to no recent success. There aren't a ton of programs in this category, as many/most of the historically good programs are in the category above. But, you get programs like UCLA which spent a few years in the wilderness, but also programs like Georgetown, St. John's, and a few others. These programs can market themselves as restoring the legacy. This is the best marketing pitch - join a program that was once great, and make it top again. (3) Programs on the Rise. These would be programs that struggled but have improved. This would definitely be Georgetown circa 2004-2006ish (combined with #2). These programs usually have new-ish coaches and a fair amount of success to build on. You can market to recruits as a program on the rise. I know some HoyaTalkers think we are here, but we are not. But, if we make the NCAA tournament this season, we could be in this category after this year. (4) Let's Build Something! This is very similar to #2 without the legacy. In this category, I would have put Beard's first few years where he was building something at Texas Tech, for example. (5) Everyone else. For programs that (a) have no history of success, (b) are not on the rise, and (c) do not have a coach offering anything unique, it's tough to market in this manner. Those programs need to recruit more in what the school can offer, what the individual coaches can offer, etc. Perhaps unique aspects of the institution that apply to certain guys. This is a long way of saying that Georgetown is going to market itself to recruits as rebuilding the legacy because it has to - there really is no other pitch to be made. And, in our case, this particularly works because Ewing is the coach, and so rebuilding the legacy is consistent. So, of course our recruits are going to say that. I still think, overall, the bigger factors for these kids are their connections with the coach, and how they see themselves developing in the next year or two. For some kids, I am sure there are other factors, but I think the "rebuilding the legacy" pitch is more of a sideshow and supplement to other more important factors. But, it is still relevant in pitching recruits. Saxa thank you for taking the time out to share your analysis. I don't necessarily disagree with you except if you think about it deeply, a kid can go anywhere they want to go and get development. I mean lets be honest about that. What does Georgetown have that St Joes doesn't have in terms of being able to develop a kid? That's a rhetorical question. Also, we are talking about high 4 star to high 5 star kids (highly skilled players) who most likely not lacking for development. Besides, these kids are going to get developed regardless of what school they go to whether it be Georgetown or GW. Somebody else said well, Aminu came here because of playing time. Really? C'mon man make it make sense! Aminu is going to get playing time regardless of what school he had chosen. Get real! I'm not saying that "rebuilding the legacy" is the only sales pitch. In past post, I mentioned everything that Mr. Harmon mentioned #2 - #5 as the reason for why a star athlete should pick Georgetown. So there are tons of reasons for why a star should pick Georgetown. I'm just saying, sell it! That's it. I find it very funny how those, in Hoyatalk, who are not seeing what I am saying as a viable pitch go out their way to disagree with me or wish that what I am seeing with my own two eyes (people mentioning rebuilding the brand or legacy) is not true. People on here will actually tell me my eyes are lying to me. If you don't see it my way, you don't have to but you're not going to change my mind so why even try??? It's just mind boggling. By the way, let's play role play. Let's say I am a big time athlete and you are trying to sell me on Georgetown. What would be your pitch?
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Post by BeantownHoya on Jun 21, 2021 14:04:30 GMT -5
hoyafansinceewingera...
To your last question, I agree there is no doubt somewhere in my sales pitch I am bringing up the history and legacy of Georgetown BBall regardless of how many years ago it was perceived to be. Is that going to resonate with all kids certainly not but I don't see how talking about it could ever hurt and may on top of other factors help persuade a kid.
Where I will respectfully disagree with you is dismissing any and all factors of why a kid may end up at Gtown just like you stated it would be a mistake to dismiss our legacy as part of a sales pitch.
Now I am not saying Aminu is coming here due to playing time but I think it would be a mistake to say it's not a factor. I think every kid needs to do their due diligence when it comes to a roster and where they fit and what type pf playing time is immediately available if that is something important to them. I know you say it's a given that Aminu just plays significant minutes no matter where he goes but personally I do not.
Aminu is the #21 recruit in 2021 In 2020...
Jalen Johnson #13 - 5 STAR - 21 MPG Bryce Thomson #21 - 5 STAR - 17 MPG Walker Kessler #22 - 5 STAR - 9 MPG Kristian Lander #27 - 5 STAR - 10 MPG Mark Williams #28 - 5 STAR - 15 MPG
Those are all guys ranked around the same spot as Aminu and none of them cracked more than 21 MPG and you could reasonably argue looking at some of the rosters they played on that they could have gone elsewhere and played more minutes immediately. No matter who you are you are not guaranteed playing time, so to simply dismiss playing time as not a factor for any player regardless of who they are I think in some way is making the mistake of not considering our programs legacy. Again I am not saying Aminu is at Gtown because of playing time but compared to say Duke he certainly has an easier path to more minutes based on roster talent and makeup and I would never expect Harmon to list that as a top 5 reason...
I think the bottom line is you never know what's going to resonate for each kid. So I would throw the kitchen sink at him, legacy...playing time...be developed by a HOF'er...facilities...campus...etc
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2021 15:29:44 GMT -5
hoyafansinceewingera... To your last question, I agree there is no doubt somewhere in my sales pitch I am bringing up the history and legacy of Georgetown BBall regardless of how many years ago it was perceived to be. Is that going to resonate with all kids certainly not but I don't see how talking about it could ever hurt and may on top of other factors help persuade a kid. Where I will respectfully disagree with you is dismissing any and all factors of why a kid may end up at Gtown just like you stated it would be a mistake to dismiss our legacy as part of a sales pitch. Now I am not saying Aminu is coming here due to playing time but I think it would be a mistake to say it's not a factor. I think every kid needs to do their due diligence when it comes to a roster and where they fit and what type pf playing time is immediately available if that is something important to them. I know you say it's a given that Aminu just plays significant minutes no matter where he goes but personally I do not. Aminu is the #21 recruit in 2021 In 2020... Jalen Johnson #13 - 5 STAR - 21 MPG Bryce Thomson #21 - 5 STAR - 17 MPG Walker Kessler #22 - 5 STAR - 9 MPG Kristian Lander #27 - 5 STAR - 10 MPG Mark Williams #28 - 5 STAR - 15 MPG Those are all guys ranked around the same spot as Aminu and none of them cracked more than 21 MPG and you could reasonably argue looking at some of the rosters they played on that they could have gone elsewhere and played more minutes immediately. No matter who you are you are not guaranteed playing time, so to simply dismiss playing time as not a factor for any player regardless of who they are I think in some way is making the mistake of not considering our programs legacy. Again I am not saying Aminu is at Gtown because of playing time but compared to say Duke he certainly has an easier path to more minutes based on roster talent and makeup and I would never expect Harmon to list that as a top 5 reason... I think the bottom line is you never know what's going to resonate for each kid. So I would throw the kitchen sink at him, legacy...playing time...be developed by a HOF'er...facilities...campus...etc I understand what you're saying about those top players not getting a maximum amount of playing time. However, isn't that the exception rather than the rule? I mean you only named five guys and those guys probably had somebody in front of them that was better than them. Also, the schools that were picked by the prognosticators for Aminu were Indiana and Georgia. I don't know either school's rosters but who are the players on either of these school's roster that would have Aminu riding the bench? Carolina is always getting top players so I don't think it is unreasonable that Kessler wouldn't start. I don't know their roster but I would say that its the same with Duke and therefore, maybe this is the reason why Jalen Johnson shouldn't have chosen to go to Duke. Same with Mark Williams. I don't know the rest of them dudes you got on your list but I almost certain they chose to go to schools that have a bunch of 4's and some 5's stars on their team so of course you might get played out by other elite 4's and 5's. I mean it's only but five guys in the starting lineup. But that, like I said earlier, is rather the exception than the rule. You wanna know why? It's because there ain't but so many schools that have a bunch of 4 and 5 stars on their roster. It is only a few. But, for most schools in the country, Aminu is going to get playing time even if it means he doesn't start in his first year. The kid is going to get significant playing time. I mean he's an NBA prospect for God sake! Y'all are even talking about he's only gonna play one year (though I hope that's not the case). Kessler ain't no NBA prospect! For those kids that you have on your list with the small amount of playing time, what were the playing times for the other 5 star players on their respective team and what is their status (Fr, soph, jr, sr)?
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Post by BeantownHoya on Jun 21, 2021 16:08:24 GMT -5
I think my broader point was just simply you have no idea from kid to kid what are the factors that are going to check their personal boxes when choosing a school. Just like you said it would be mistake to disregard legacy as a factor for Aminu I would be just as hesitant to dismiss that immediate playing time would be factor. Again Aminu may not be the best example of that argument I am more saying in general.
...and honestly without being a mind reader...Harmon's #1 on reasons why pick Georgetown was "it fit the vision" - and one could reasonably argue (since he goes on specifically to call out legacy, coach, location, academics, etc) that part of "fit the vision" is immediate playing time or being an alpha dog on a team that just lost 4 critical players and the desire to be one of the primary leaders on this team versus what other rosters provided.
I am certainly not saying I am right or you are wrong...but I bet a lot of kids take into account what my immediate impact will be on the court and like you said some kids make a poor decision assuming their going to see more playing time even with going to a Duke, UNC, Kentucky, etc - knowing there is a boat load of 4 and 5 star kids.
Now if a poster said that playing time was the sole reason (I did not see that) then I would agree that feels very wrong in terms of Aminu.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2021 16:31:31 GMT -5
I think my broader point was just simply you have no idea from kid to kid what are the factors that are going to check their personal boxes when choosing a school. Just like you said it would be mistake to disregard legacy as a factor for Aminu I would be just as hesitant to dismiss that immediate playing time would be factor. Again Aminu may not be the best example of that argument I am more saying in general. ...and honestly without being a mind reader...Harmon's #1 on reasons why pick Georgetown was "it fit the vision" - and one could reasonably argue (since he goes on specifically to call out legacy, coach, location, academics, etc) that part of "fit the vision" is immediate playing time or being an alpha dog on a team that just lost 4 critical players and the desire to be one of the primary leaders on this team versus what other rosters provided. I am certainly not saying I am right or you are wrong...but I bet a lot of kids take into account what my immediate impact will be on the court and like you said some kids make a poor decision assuming their going to see more playing time even with going to a Duke, UNC, Kentucky, etc - knowing there is a boat load of 4 and 5 star kids. Now if a poster said that playing time was the sole reason (I did not see that) then I would agree that feels very wrong in terms of Aminu. Not to be disrespectful but you see how we can get off the rails? I was talking about Aminu Mohammed and how we could recruit other elite players like him and you were talking about marginal players like Kessler. I had to bring you to my point by arguing these players are not Aminu or players that we are trying to recruit like Aminu. Yes I would certainly agree that playing time is of an important factor for all players. I don't even think that all 5 star players are really 5 star players but there are some 5 star players who are really 5 star players if you get what I am saying. These guys will get time so time ain't a factor for these type of players. I don't know when Aminu committed vs when we lost the "4 critical players" but I am almost certain they were a non issue to Aminu's playing time. Remember, Mac was a 3 star player and he came in and started over Pickett who was a 4 star coming out of high school. Pickett when he first came here, he was starting at shooting guard. Most people probably don't even remember that. But anyways, my point is that Mac started over Pickett as well as he should have. Not saying that Mac was better than Pickett but Mac and Akinjo gave us the better chance to win games at that moment. If Mac and Akinjo were still here (and I assuming you're talking about these dudes as part of the "4 critical players"), you think Mac would start over Aminu??? I don't know...maybe you might be right but I don't know. If you guys are saying this kid Aminu is an elite player on offense and especially on defense, he won't be at Georgetown no more than 2 years (because of NBA aspirations) and some are saying after 1 year he's gone, how could he be riding the bench to Mac or anybody else for that matter? It just doesn't make any sense.
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Post by HamptonHoya on Jun 22, 2021 6:55:36 GMT -5
Over the years, I have come to accept that GU is not the "cool" school. We are not meant for the casual fan. Unless you attended the University, only the hard core fans understand what the University meant and still means. Harmon gets it and he passed it onto Aminu and he gets it. Terrance Williams father got it, Terrance did not and that's alright. Terrance chose what he believes is right for him and we wish him the best. I am sure Coach tells every recruit they can help restore the luster to the program. Some see it and sign up, others see it and find a better fit elsewhere, others can't see it at all. I am riding with the ones who stick it out and leave the program in a better place than when they arrived. I don't understand the point. Georgetown has been marketed to the small-c casual fan for years. There were fans for years who didn't know Georgetown as Catholic, or thought it was an HBCU. A big chunk of the home attendance base is not alumni, and probably wouldn't know the difference between McDonough Gymnasium and McDonough Hall. That's OK, by the way. I also don't think the "hard core fans understand what the University meant and still means"--maybe you can explain this one. It's not going to be easy to restore luster to a program when any player is not committed beyond one or two semesters of study. Otherwise, you're on the hamster wheel that St. John's basketball has become for the last 20 years. When was the last four year player of consequence for the Redmen that you can remember? Here we go. I don't consider those that post or come to this site multiple times a day a casual fan. Whether you attended the University or fell in love with it for whatever reason, you are still a fan years after the glory years. The fans that simply hop on the bandwagon of whoever is winning, left the bandwagon years ago. The original point I was making is that it is not as simple as going into a recruits house and selling them on returning GU to the Glory years. There are not many current high school players who are historians of the game and who know the history of the program without the help of an adult. Many of the players know the programs because of currently winning or because of who they put into the pros. That's it. You can agree or disagree, it's alright. For the record, my second favorite team is UNC (growing up I only had three channels, Saturday games were from Jefferson Pilot Sports). Couldn't jump on the UVA bandwagon, player named Phil Ford came along and Coach Smith developed the Ford Corners. The rest is history. If you are a Carolina fan, how can you be a Duke fan. I like to give it to Duke any chance I get. Did I ruffle some Duke fan feathers? How many of you are out there? I think it is great that Harmon appreciates the history of Georgetown and has gone on record saying he wants to help rebuild that. There aren't many parents and those helping with the decision, looking at it from that perspective. I applaud Harmon and Aminu for taking on the task of being Coach's highest ranked recruit and all of the pressure that brings. I am sure he reads HT daily. He is a basketball historian, you know.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jun 22, 2021 8:57:49 GMT -5
It seems to me that, outside of the top programs at any level, kids these days seem to gravitate toward players and not teams. The NBA is probably the best example. People talk about the Lakers because of tradition and that resonates even with high school kids. That said, if LeBron and AD went to a different team, most younger fans would then follow that team over the Lakers. I think that's true at the college level as well for every school that isn't a Duke or UNC or Kentucky. Having said that, I think the best bet for a sustained rise is getting guys that other kids want to play with or want to play like. If you can land a couple of recruits that generate buzz all on their own, I think the wheels get greased.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jun 22, 2021 10:00:30 GMT -5
I think we are all missing the elephant in the room. It's more than just figuring out why kids would want to come to GU. It's become how do we keep them here? As has been pointed out in this and other threads, we have lost all our top recruits to transfers over the past 3 years. You can't have a quality program like Nova's unless you can do that or unless you commit to being a basketball factory and just keep filling your roster with one or two and dones, neither of which I think we as GU alumni and/or friends want the University to become. I can see how losing 4-5 stars to the NBA or pro ball is just a modern fact of life but we can't have kids just deserting which is what transfers really are.
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Post by professorhoya on Jun 22, 2021 10:48:36 GMT -5
I think we are all missing the elephant in the room. It's more than just figuring out why kids would want to come to GU. It's become how do we keep them here? As has been pointed out in this and other threads, we have lost all our top recruits to transfers over the past 3 years. You can't have a quality program like Nova's unless you can do that or unless you commit to being a basketball factory and just keep filling your roster with one or two and dones, neither of which I think we as GU alumni and/or friends want the University to become. I can see how losing 4-5 stars to the NBA or pro ball is just a modern fact of life but we can't have kids just deserting which is what transfers really are.
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Omega
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Post by Omega on Jun 23, 2021 15:11:22 GMT -5
I think we are all missing the elephant in the room. It's more than just figuring out why kids would want to come to GU. It's become how do we keep them here? As has been pointed out in this and other threads, we have lost all our top recruits to transfers over the past 3 years. You can't have a quality program like Nova's unless you can do that or unless you commit to being a basketball factory and just keep filling your roster with one or two and dones, neither of which I think we as GU alumni and/or friends want the University to become. I can see how losing 4-5 stars to the NBA or pro ball is just a modern fact of life but we can't have kids just deserting which is what transfers really are. Keeping kids here? Stop acting as though we don't know why kids left. The same people who are complaining about kids leaving would be the same people who would be complaining about accountability. Coach Ewing could have kept them all, well most, if he let them do what they wanted. He has been accountable and holding up the high standards many of you poke out your chest about and for doing so, many complain about players leaving..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2021 15:45:23 GMT -5
I think we are all missing the elephant in the room. It's more than just figuring out why kids would want to come to GU. It's become how do we keep them here? As has been pointed out in this and other threads, we have lost all our top recruits to transfers over the past 3 years. You can't have a quality program like Nova's unless you can do that or unless you commit to being a basketball factory and just keep filling your roster with one or two and dones, neither of which I think we as GU alumni and/or friends want the University to become. I can see how losing 4-5 stars to the NBA or pro ball is just a modern fact of life but we can't have kids just deserting which is what transfers really are. Keeping kids here? Stop acting as though we don't know why kids left. The same people who are complaining about kids leaving would be the same people who would be complaining about accountability. Coach Ewing could have kept them all, well most, if he let them do what they wanted. He has been accountable and holding up the high standards many of you poke out your chest about and for doing so, many complain about players leaving.. A very good perspective and probably one that most of us never even thought about. I know I hadn't.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 23, 2021 22:00:09 GMT -5
I think we are all missing the elephant in the room. It's more than just figuring out why kids would want to come to GU. It's become how do we keep them here? As has been pointed out in this and other threads, we have lost all our top recruits to transfers over the past 3 years. You can't have a quality program like Nova's unless you can do that or unless you commit to being a basketball factory and just keep filling your roster with one or two and dones, neither of which I think we as GU alumni and/or friends want the University to become. I can see how losing 4-5 stars to the NBA or pro ball is just a modern fact of life but we can't have kids just deserting which is what transfers really are. Keeping kids here? Stop acting as though we don't know why kids left. The same people who are complaining about kids leaving would be the same people who would be complaining about accountability. Coach Ewing could have kept them all, well most, if he let them do what they wanted. He has been accountable and holding up the high standards many of you poke out your chest about and for doing so, many complain about players leaving.. You wrote, “Coach Ewing could have kept them all, well most, if he let them do what they wanted.” Other than Derrickson, Yurtseven and Bile, who left early for a shot at pro ball, and Jalen Harris, who is M.I.A., these are the players who left the program early under Coach Ewing: Sodom Campbell Walker Carter Leblanc McClung Akinjo Gardner Wahab Alexander Sibley Berger What did each of these players want to do that Coach Ewing did not let them do? In your opinion, how could Coach Ewing have kept them?
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Post by practice on Jun 24, 2021 6:30:34 GMT -5
Keeping kids here? Stop acting as though we don't know why kids left. The same people who are complaining about kids leaving would be the same people who would be complaining about accountability. Coach Ewing could have kept them all, well most, if he let them do what they wanted. He has been accountable and holding up the high standards many of you poke out your chest about and for doing so, many complain about players leaving.. You wrote, “Coach Ewing could have kept them all, well most, if he let them do what they wanted.” Other than Derrickson, Yurtseven and Bile, who left early for a shot at pro ball, and Jalen Harris, who is M.I.A., these are the players who left the program early under Coach Ewing: Sodom Campbell Walker Carter Leblanc McClung Akinjo Gardner Wahab Alexander Sibley Berger What did these players want to do that Coach Ewing did not let them do? In your opinion, how could Coach Ewing have kept them? Looked the other way in some cases and also kiss the collective a$$es of 18-20 year olds???
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 24, 2021 7:50:05 GMT -5
Keeping kids here? Stop acting as though we don't know why kids left. The same people who are complaining about kids leaving would be the same people who would be complaining about accountability. Coach Ewing could have kept them all, well most, if he let them do what they wanted. He has been accountable and holding up the high standards many of you poke out your chest about and for doing so, many complain about players leaving.. You wrote, “Coach Ewing could have kept them all, well most, if he let them do what they wanted.” Other than Derrickson, Yurtseven and Bile, who left early for a shot at pro ball, and Jalen Harris, who is M.I.A., these are the players who left the program early under Coach Ewing: Sodom Campbell Walker Carter Leblanc McClung Akinjo Gardner Wahab Alexander Sibley Berger What did each of these players want to do that Coach Ewing did not let them do? In your opinion, how could Coach Ewing have kept them? Sodom: coach could’ve let him slide on getting arrested for being belligerent at the Chinese disco (like they do at most schools) Campbell: who are you even referring to? Tre? Really? Walker: coach could’ve let fighting fellow student athletes slide (like they do at most schools) Carter: we recruited over him (aka could’ve kept him if we wanted) LeBlanc: could’ve let a non-event actually be a non-event. Agree to disagree if you still can’t interpret the evidence for what it is. Also, his preseason suspension was in regards to weed and paraphernalia being found in his room, that’s what started off the season on a sour note. Most other coaches wouldn’t bench a starter for smoking... McMclung: he left mainly because of the injury mishandling, but from a basketball standpoint because he kept getting yanked (aka coached) for his mistakes in game. Ewing could’ve just played him with the same leash he used for Akinjo if he wanted him to stay. He didn’t because Mac had worse habits to break and repair. Akinjo: see him blowing off the teams offensive game plan multiple times. Ewing could’ve let that continue like a lot of other coaches do. Gardner & Alexander: left because of GU campus/administrative reasons and not basketball reasons. They don’t belong in this discussion. They had no choice but to transfer. To spell it out super clearly, their departures are not a reflection on Ewing’s inability to retain talent (which is what this discussion is about). Wahab: his handler took under the table benefits. Ewing could’ve kept him if he offered the same, like a lot of coaches do. Either way, Ewing recruited depth at the position and depending on how Ryan plays this year Wahab was effectively not prioritized. Sibley: was recruited over. Berger: also recruited over.
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Post by professorhoya on Jun 24, 2021 8:46:52 GMT -5
You wrote, “Coach Ewing could have kept them all, well most, if he let them do what they wanted.” Other than Derrickson, Yurtseven and Bile, who left early for a shot at pro ball, and Jalen Harris, who is M.I.A., these are the players who left the program early under Coach Ewing: Sodom Campbell Walker Carter Leblanc McClung Akinjo Gardner Wahab Alexander Sibley Berger What did each of these players want to do that Coach Ewing did not let them do? In your opinion, how could Coach Ewing have kept them? Sodom: coach could’ve let him slide on getting arrested for being belligerent at the Chinese disco (like they do at most schools) Campbell: who are you even referring to? Tre? Really? Walker: coach could’ve let fighting fellow student athletes slide (like they do at most schools) Carter: we recruited over him (aka could’ve kept him if we wanted) LeBlanc: could’ve let a non-event actually be a non-event. Agree to disagree if you still can’t interpret the evidence for what it is. Also, his preseason suspension was in regards to weed and paraphernalia being found in his room, that’s what started off the season on a sour note. Most other coaches wouldn’t bench a starter for smoking... McMclung: he left mainly because of the injury mishandling, but from a basketball standpoint because he kept getting yanked (aka coached) for his mistakes in game. Ewing could’ve just played him with the same leash he used for Akinjo if he wanted him to stay. He didn’t because Mac had worse habits to break and repair. Akinjo: see him blowing off the teams offensive game plan multiple times. Ewing could’ve let that continue like a lot of other coaches do. Gardner & Alexander: left because of GU campus/administrative reasons and not basketball reasons. They don’t belong in this discussion. They had no choice but to transfer. To spell it out super clearly, their departures are not a reflection on Ewing’s inability to retain talent (which is what this discussion is about). Wahab: his handler took under the table benefits. Ewing could’ve kept him if he offered the same, like a lot of coaches do. Either way, Ewing recruited depth at the position and depending on how Ryan plays this year Wahab was effectively not prioritized. Sibley: was recruited over. Berger: also recruited over. Checkmate
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