smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Dec 7, 2020 13:17:48 GMT -5
Agreed. While I was proud of the effort in large part, I felt awkward that I was rooting for the Hoyas to "at least keep it close," where just a few years ago, it felt like we could win any game. We've fallen so far in a relatively short amount of time, and that is, in fact, sad. That said, I am still proud of last night's game because we know that, at least right now, we don't have the talent level to go toe to toe with a top 10-ish team, and that's exactly what we did (with tons of room to improve). It is what it is, but I won't be singing the same tune next year, where the talent level--and expectations--will be increased. So what do you think is going to be different next year Beard, Mutombo and Riley would all start on the current team. And, no, I would not and did not say the same about Sibley. I hope Blair and Harris return (as this year doesn’t count against eligibility). And I expect Q and Tim to continue to improve. No question in my mind that next season’s team will be more talented.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 7, 2020 13:21:54 GMT -5
So what do you think is going to be different next year Beard, Mutombo and Riley would all start on the current team. And, no, I would not and did not say the same about Sibley. I hope Blair and Harris return (as this year doesn’t count against eligibility). And I expect Q and Tim to continue to improve. No question in my mind that next season’s team will be more talented. I didn't realize that. You could have 5th year Blair and 6th year Harris?
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Dec 7, 2020 13:22:07 GMT -5
Agreed. While I was proud of the effort in large part, I felt awkward that I was rooting for the Hoyas to "at least keep it close," where just a few years ago, it felt like we could win any game. We've fallen so far in a relatively short amount of time, and that is, in fact, sad. That said, I am still proud of last night's game because we know that, at least right now, we don't have the talent level to go toe to toe with a top 10-ish team, and that's exactly what we did (with tons of room to improve). It is what it is, but I won't be singing the same tune next year, where the talent level--and expectations--will be increased. So what do you think is going to be different next year Well the talent level should be a bit better but yes, having a lot of freshman & sophomores on the floor probably won't lead to instant results. We will need a bucket getter or two and right now I don't think we really have that. Aminu would possibly do the trick but of the current freshman it doesn't really seem like that is the role of those guys coming in as most were complimentary pieces in high school. For next years group, maybe Riley or Beard but once again, those guys hopefully can take up the D pressure to create O. I liked the shot blocking I saw in WV and feel like that could get us out on some breaks too but in a half court set, I'm not really sure what the plan will be next year other than to go to Wahab and hope he gets better at passing out of double teams to corner shooters. That seems to be the O right now as presently constituted. We will lose a very good shooter in Blair and a fairly average shooter in Pickett. Pickett's length and rebounding will be missed however. The future is a bit bleak. Next years class should be the baseline for talent versus an outlier however as it is only a top 5 class in the BE. That should be the minimum going forward. With the current class and next class, you have your base to build on and get some real difference makers. That would be the hope.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 7, 2020 13:30:12 GMT -5
So what do you think is going to be different next year Well the talent level should be a bit better but yes, having a lot of freshman & sophomores on the floor probably won't lead to instant results. We will need a bucket getter or two and right now I don't think we really have that. Aminu would possibly do the trick but of the current freshman it doesn't really seem like that is the role of those guys coming in as most were complimentary pieces in high school. For next years group, maybe Riley or Beard but once again, those guys hopefully can take up the D pressure to create O. I liked the shot blocking I saw in WV and feel like that could get us out on some breaks too but in a half court set, I'm not really sure what the plan will be next year other than to go to Wahab and hope he gets better at passing out of double teams to corner shooters. That seems to be the O right now as presently constituted. We will lose a very good shooter in Blair and a fairly average shooter in Pickett. Pickett's length and rebounding will be missed however. The future is a bit bleak. Next years class should be the baseline for talent versus an outlier however as it is only a top 5 class in the BE. That should be the minimum going forward. With the current class and next class, you have your base to build on and get some real difference makers. That would be the hope. 5th year Blair
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Dec 7, 2020 13:34:04 GMT -5
Well the talent level should be a bit better but yes, having a lot of freshman & sophomores on the floor probably won't lead to instant results. We will need a bucket getter or two and right now I don't think we really have that. Aminu would possibly do the trick but of the current freshman it doesn't really seem like that is the role of those guys coming in as most were complimentary pieces in high school. For next years group, maybe Riley or Beard but once again, those guys hopefully can take up the D pressure to create O. I liked the shot blocking I saw in WV and feel like that could get us out on some breaks too but in a half court set, I'm not really sure what the plan will be next year other than to go to Wahab and hope he gets better at passing out of double teams to corner shooters. That seems to be the O right now as presently constituted. We will lose a very good shooter in Blair and a fairly average shooter in Pickett. Pickett's length and rebounding will be missed however. The future is a bit bleak. Next years class should be the baseline for talent versus an outlier however as it is only a top 5 class in the BE. That should be the minimum going forward. With the current class and next class, you have your base to build on and get some real difference makers. That would be the hope. 5th year Blair Correct. 5th year Blair instantly gives you the scorer Columbia identifies as a huge need next year. Personally, I like J Harris sharing PG duties with Beard.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Dec 7, 2020 14:02:09 GMT -5
Correct. 5th year Blair instantly gives you the scorer Columbia identifies as a huge need next year. Personally, I like J Harris sharing PG duties with Beard. What I've seen of J Harris so far I would gladly pass on. His speed is elite but his control and decision making are the opposite. I hope D. Harris with a year under his belt or some combo of the many combo guards would be preferred.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 7, 2020 14:33:39 GMT -5
Yes, plenty too. It almost went in just as all the other misses, except for the airballs. That’s broken logic, but if you find inaccuracy funny by all means do you. And there’s no way you’ve made that shot plenty of times if you think Tim isn’t better equipped to make it than you or I. Oh, please, it’s perfect logic. You messed up and now you’re trying to correct it. As to the shot, read the posts. Other posters agreed with me: right now Tim isn’t equipped to make it consistently so he shouldn’t try it. You and I will have to disagree.
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Dec 7, 2020 14:53:00 GMT -5
Correct. 5th year Blair instantly gives you the scorer Columbia identifies as a huge need next year. Personally, I like J Harris sharing PG duties with Beard. What I've seen of J Harris so far I would gladly pass on. His speed is elite but his control and decision making are the opposite. I hope D. Harris with a year under his belt or some combo of the many combo guards would be preferred. I don’t think Dante has scored yet. In my opinion, he won’t be “ready” in this lifetime.
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Dec 7, 2020 14:53:56 GMT -5
Beard, Mutombo and Riley would all start on the current team. And, no, I would not and did not say the same about Sibley. I hope Blair and Harris return (as this year doesn’t count against eligibility). And I expect Q and Tim to continue to improve. No question in my mind that next season’s team will be more talented. I didn't realize that. You could have 5th year Blair and 6th year Harris? Technically yes, but I think we should be careful assuming what any of the seniors will do. It's also unclear how universities are going to handle this in terms of paying for extra scholarships and whether the players would even want to return. I don't see a scenario where we have like 17 scholarship basketball players but that's just a guess on my end. Agree that Blair staying would be a huge addition and give the freshmen coming in some buffer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 14:59:02 GMT -5
What I've seen of J Harris so far I would gladly pass on. His speed is elite but his control and decision making are the opposite. I hope D. Harris with a year under his belt or some combo of the many combo guards would be preferred. I don’t think Dante has scored yet. In my opinion, he won’t be “ready” in this lifetime. Aside from being wrong (he has 2 points), what do those 2 sentences have to do with one another? The kid's 32 minutes into his career. Kobe has 1 point in 19 minutes (even worse!). Will he ever be ready in his lifetime?
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 7, 2020 16:00:53 GMT -5
I don’t think Dante has scored yet. In my opinion, he won’t be “ready” in this lifetime. Aside from being wrong (he has 2 points), what do those 2 sentences have to do with one another? The kid's 32 minutes into his career. Kobe has 1 point in 19 minutes (even worse!). Will he ever be ready in his lifetime? Technically any of our lifetimes could end tomorrow, so in theory Harris could be ready tomorrow so maybe it's not an insult.
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Dec 7, 2020 16:21:18 GMT -5
What I've seen of J Harris so far I would gladly pass on. His speed is elite but his control and decision making are the opposite. I hope D. Harris with a year under his belt or some combo of the many combo guards would be preferred. I don’t think Dante has scored yet. In my opinion, he won’t be “ready” in this lifetime. I think it's wayyyy too early to make these types of statements. He's been in three games as a freshman PG. Confidence is clearly an issue. If he had scored on that iso possession he had in the first half (I thought it was a solid move, but he did not have his knees under him and clearly overthought the shot) I think that would've given him a ton of confidence. If you have played the sport, we've all been through confidence droughts and overthought our game. Not at this level, but if you've played basketball, you overthink things from time to time. It's completely normal. It's been three games. A lot can change. Our player development has to improve and Dante has shown potential and tools. Let's exercise that and let Dante improve. Freshman to sophomore jumps happen all the time. Look at Seth Lundy. Lundy hadn't scored 20 points in a single game last year and he just had 30 against a very good defensive minded VCU team and then 23 against Seton Hall, who is another tough defensive minded team. He's taken a massive leap from one year to another. We have to be able to develop guys, and we have to let guys develop too. Dante has the tools. He can make a jump. The coaching staff has to show that they can improve players, or this part two rebuild will fail. One game where Dante gets hot and his confidence will be back. That's why I so badly want him to play more. Get out ahead of Coppin early and let the freshman play. This could help in so many cases. This next game is important. Nova the game after will probably be more like this game in the sense that the freshman will play less. Give them minutes against Coppin and let's give them confidence heading into Nova.
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hoyaroc
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Post by hoyaroc on Dec 7, 2020 19:16:04 GMT -5
I don’t think Dante has scored yet. In my opinion, he won’t be “ready” in this lifetime. I think it's wayyyy too early to make these types of statements. He's been in three games as a freshman PG. Confidence is clearly an issue. If he had scored on that iso possession he had in the first half (I thought it was a solid move, but he did not have his knees under him and clearly overthought the shot) I think that would've given him a ton of confidence. If you have played the sport, we've all been through confidence droughts and overthought our game. Not at this level, but if you've played basketball, you overthink things from time to time. It's completely normal. It's been three games. A lot can change. Our player development has to improve and Dante has shown potential and tools. Let's exercise that and let Dante improve. Freshman to sophomore jumps happen all the time. Look at Seth Lundy. Lundy hadn't scored 20 points in a single game last year and he just had 30 against a very good defensive minded VCU team and then 23 against Seton Hall, who is another tough defensive minded team. He's taken a massive leap from one year to another. We have to be able to develop guys, and we have to let guys develop too. Dante has the tools. He can make a jump. The coaching staff has to show that they can improve players, or this part two rebuild will fail. One game where Dante gets hot and his confidence will be back. That's why I so badly want him to play more. Get out ahead of Coppin early and let the freshman play. This could help in so many cases. This next game is important. Nova the game after will probably be more like this game in the sense that the freshman will play less. Give them minutes against Coppin and let's give them confidence heading into Nova. The coaching staff have shown they can develop players Mac and Blair are examples.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Dec 7, 2020 19:36:14 GMT -5
I think it's wayyyy too early to make these types of statements. He's been in three games as a freshman PG. Confidence is clearly an issue. If he had scored on that iso possession he had in the first half (I thought it was a solid move, but he did not have his knees under him and clearly overthought the shot) I think that would've given him a ton of confidence. If you have played the sport, we've all been through confidence droughts and overthought our game. Not at this level, but if you've played basketball, you overthink things from time to time. It's completely normal. It's been three games. A lot can change. Our player development has to improve and Dante has shown potential and tools. Let's exercise that and let Dante improve. Freshman to sophomore jumps happen all the time. Look at Seth Lundy. Lundy hadn't scored 20 points in a single game last year and he just had 30 against a very good defensive minded VCU team and then 23 against Seton Hall, who is another tough defensive minded team. He's taken a massive leap from one year to another. We have to be able to develop guys, and we have to let guys develop too. Dante has the tools. He can make a jump. The coaching staff has to show that they can improve players, or this part two rebuild will fail. One game where Dante gets hot and his confidence will be back. That's why I so badly want him to play more. Get out ahead of Coppin early and let the freshman play. This could help in so many cases. This next game is important. Nova the game after will probably be more like this game in the sense that the freshman will play less. Give them minutes against Coppin and let's give them confidence heading into Nova. The coaching staff have shown they can develop players Mac and Blair are examples. Pickett, Q, Mosely, Tim as well. Marcus and Govan after Ewing arrived.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Dec 7, 2020 21:39:35 GMT -5
i honestly thought we would lose this game by at least 30. yet we went toe to toe with a very good west virginia team for 33 minutes. i thought what killed us was the turnovers, many of the unforced variety, just caused by sloppy play. also, i certainly hope that tim i's basketball iq will improve. he's way too foul prone, and just does things sometimes that make no sense, like trying to save that ball going out of bounds that was clearly off wv. i know it's hustling, but sometimes you just have to know what you're doing out there. i hope he can get there. it's just that at the moment, he's clearly still a project.
ps: please excuse the ee cummings style typing. it appears that the shift key on my worthless poc keyboard, which i purchased 6 months ago, has stopped working.
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Dec 7, 2020 23:27:45 GMT -5
I think it's wayyyy too early to make these types of statements. He's been in three games as a freshman PG. Confidence is clearly an issue. If he had scored on that iso possession he had in the first half (I thought it was a solid move, but he did not have his knees under him and clearly overthought the shot) I think that would've given him a ton of confidence. If you have played the sport, we've all been through confidence droughts and overthought our game. Not at this level, but if you've played basketball, you overthink things from time to time. It's completely normal. It's been three games. A lot can change. Our player development has to improve and Dante has shown potential and tools. Let's exercise that and let Dante improve. Freshman to sophomore jumps happen all the time. Look at Seth Lundy. Lundy hadn't scored 20 points in a single game last year and he just had 30 against a very good defensive minded VCU team and then 23 against Seton Hall, who is another tough defensive minded team. He's taken a massive leap from one year to another. We have to be able to develop guys, and we have to let guys develop too. Dante has the tools. He can make a jump. The coaching staff has to show that they can improve players, or this part two rebuild will fail. One game where Dante gets hot and his confidence will be back. That's why I so badly want him to play more. Get out ahead of Coppin early and let the freshman play. This could help in so many cases. This next game is important. Nova the game after will probably be more like this game in the sense that the freshman will play less. Give them minutes against Coppin and let's give them confidence heading into Nova. The coaching staff have shown they can develop players Mac and Blair are examples. Ohh I'm not sure I agree at all with that. I think Blair has improved shooting off the dribble a bit, but overall he's the same player. He looks a lot like he did at the end of last year, minus how tired his legs seemed to be. And for Mac I completely disagree, as Mac was the exact same player in high school as he was in his freshman year. Then in his sophomore year, he was the exact same guy and was even worse until the defections, where he was able to play free and open in his role, and be the leading, volume scoring combo guard that he's always been. That and he went to a shooting coach in the offseason, which probably helped more than our staff did for his shooting. I definitely disagree with Mac and I think Blair has improved, but not at a good enough rate to call it good player development, imo. I think that's more just natural progression than player development (probably the best way to phrase what I mean, but I hope you understand) Same topic, so I'll continue here instead of posting twice. I would say Pickett again has been more natural progression over player development. Doing the same thing for four years almost daily will do that. Pickett hasn't improved into the guy we need him to be. Again, I'll bring up the old Ty-Shon Alexander comparison. One is on an NBA roster because he averaged 17PPG about two years in a row while turning into a top 5 defender in our conference, while the other is still in college averaging 12.7PPG on a team which is widely expected to be the worst in the conference. Derrickson was a completely different dude after that offseason. He was so much better. I can't argue against it being due to Ewing and his staff, so I'll agree completely with that one. Jagan is one I'm not sure I agree completely with. His jump shot was much improved, but he still wasn't able to put the ball on the floor consistently and score at a super high clip. He was one tough dude who I have nothing but immense respect for, but he went from averaging 7-3-3 (rounded) in 2017-18 to 8-5-4 (rounded again) in his senior year. I just think that doesn't show player development. Now, he was improved on the defensive end and his role wasn't to score last year (though we really could've used it), but I don't think his development is one to hone in on as successful. Tim is a work in progress, but he looks a lot like the dude we saw last year. He's a work in progress, so I'd call it an incomplete, but I would say that he hasn't really developed yet. Q looks very good so far. He's been better in his starts than he was last year. I'd love to see him develop a fifteen footer, but he's been much better. The defense and moving his feet still needs work (and his usage is probably a ton higher), so I don't think it's a ton, but this is development. I think he's going to be much better at the end of this season, too and I can't wait to see what he looks like then. Govan I'll give you also. I don't have much else to say here, he was better with his back to the basket, though again defensively he could've used a boost. Still, he developed, but how much of his numbers improving was just to his role dramatically increasing? I can't say I'm as certain here as I am on Derrickson. So, the conclusion I came to is that the staff has not been very good at developing guards or wings, but has been very good for bigs. And that's the point I was hitting on. Our guards need to develop. Now, basketball is a more guard driven game and our guards need to progress. Dante has shown the tools, so calling him off now is crazy, but our staff needs to get better at developing talent if this team wants to compete in the Big East. Get guys who can run your sets and who you can improve, and you will be successful. Julian Champagnie looks like a beast for St. John's. Jeremiah Robinson-Earl is a different guy now. He's unstoppable in the high post. Justin Moore looks better and if someone told me that Collin Gillespie would be who he is now when he was a freshman, I'd think you were crazy. James Bouknight has taken a leap, Mamu looks like a man on a mission (he needs a PG though), David Duke and Nate Watson look ready to be lead options on that Providence team (though their offense didn't look good in Maui), and I could go on. We need to be having guys consistently improving and taking leaps to compete at this level with some stability. We aren't Duke or Kentucky or one of these teams who can consistently reel in 2+ five star recruits, so we have to develop our guys at a much better rate.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Dec 8, 2020 0:58:17 GMT -5
J. Harris has all of the qualities Mulmore brought to the Hoyas minus his speed.
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Post by HometownHoya on Dec 8, 2020 11:34:38 GMT -5
I had to watch this game on replay but I'm proud of the guys. Wish we went deeper then 8, especially with foul trouble. Can't believe Marko make it the last 8 minutes of the game with 4 fouls.
Lots of other thoughts but at this point, it's another game day so lets focus on that one.
I did just want to comment that I love the home blues. They look sharp and have a throwback feel to them.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 8, 2020 18:23:33 GMT -5
Likewise, I had to watch the game late because of some real-life craziness. I don't have much to say that hasn't been said before, but I am glad the team put forth more effort, and less of a disorganized mess. They should breeze past Coppin State with any type of performance, but hopefully they can build on the last game to get ready for Big East play (assuming COVID allows for such).
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