prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,296
|
Post by prhoya on Dec 2, 2020 12:48:06 GMT -5
Stat wise the top 5 were actually pretty good. It's just that the bench actually gave "0" production this game. The main, recurring problem in the Coach Patrick Ewing era is on defense, not offense. We scored 70 pts last night. The problem was a Patriot League team scored 78 points on us.
|
|
HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
Posts: 4,991
|
Post by HoyaFanNY on Dec 2, 2020 12:55:56 GMT -5
Stat wise the top 5 were actually pretty good. It's just that the bench actually gave "0" production this game. The main, recurring problem in the Coach Patrick Ewing era is on defense, not offense. We scored 70 pts last night. The problem was a Patriot League team scored 78 points on us. the on ball defense and especially the pick and roll defense has been a disaster for years
|
|
the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,420
|
Post by the_way on Dec 2, 2020 12:56:33 GMT -5
Don't play your two best players. Don't play your more experienced, grad transfers who at this point, might be better than the young guys. So, instead of losing to Navy, we'd get destroyed. That makes a lot of sense. We don't have much in the tank to start, but you gotta put your best guys out there, even if it isn't much. maybe actually read what I wrote. i did.
|
|
rlo24
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 337
|
Post by rlo24 on Dec 2, 2020 12:59:59 GMT -5
Stat wise the top 5 were actually pretty good. It's just that the bench actually gave "0" production this game. The main, recurring problem in the Coach Patrick Ewing era is on defense, not offense. We scored 70 pts last night. The problem was a Patriot League team scored 78 points on us. One of my favorite quotes i've heard in the last few years is from now Wake Forest coach Steve Forbes on recruiting: "Recruit offense and coach defense". The coaching defense (at least coaching it well) is not happening under Ewing.
|
|
paranoia2
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 847
|
Post by paranoia2 on Dec 2, 2020 15:19:40 GMT -5
Chudier.....Pickett’s shot selection....that guard on Navy looked like the NBA longtime starter DAVID WESLEY. Sturdy, in control and just a strong compact shooting motion. Tim Igouefe’s offense......I believe Dante Harris is going to come around nicely...Kobe Clark should get more of Bile’s minutes...the amount of our players’ shots that hit high on the backboard not even close to the rim was disturbing because this isn’t the Louisiana SUPERDOME with poor lighting and depth perception ....this is a court they play on fairly frequently.
I am trying to hold back and I guess my plea is to let Dante loose, get Kobe Clark a lot of minutes and eliminate the playing time for HAM-N-EGGERS that will not be with the program next season.
|
|
bigskyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,094
|
Post by bigskyhoya on Dec 2, 2020 15:37:18 GMT -5
I would also like to see more of the young guys in lieu of some of the transfers but Ewing needs to worry about W's. Even if increased playing time benefits the freshmen next year, if we have a terrible season Pat may not be around to benefit from that development.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 2, 2020 18:14:43 GMT -5
I would also like to see more of the young guys in lieu of some of the transfers but Ewing needs to worry about W's. Even if increased playing time benefits the freshmen next year, if we have a terrible season Pat may not be around to benefit from that development. Everybody loves wins, and I hope we get some, but what I really want to see, and which has been absent even against UMBC, is a basketball team playing as a coherent team and unit. On the defensive end, this simply has not happened since Ewing began. Last night against Navy we gave up 1.13 points per possession to a Patriot League team. That is truly atrocious defense, and we have not seen any improvement over changing rosters, etc. Over the last few years, at times, we have had decent offense (like against Oklahoma State last year), but that has been a mess this year, too. No spacing. Guys are chucking threes because they cannot otherwise get open. Wahab is bigger than his opponents, so he can do pretty well (as Govan and Yurtseven did against smaller OOC teams), but that is likely to go away in the Big East. I know people hate a slow pace, and I am not wedded to a slow pace, but the advantage of a slower, more deliberate offense is that it's easier to carve up bad defenses, like ours. Does anybody seriously think our defense can put together consistent 30-second sequences without errors that leave somebody open? On that note, Navy...again, Navy...torched our press. Pressing on defense does not work unless you have the personnel to do it AND it's well coached. There's a reason why Pitino, and only a handful of other coaches still play that way (and why it's non-existent in the NBA). So, that isn't going to be the solution. The real problem is that any defense requires team-play, coordination, and coaching. Clearly, we do not have a high level of talent, so I do not think anybody expects a top notch defense (which Georgetown has not had since the 2013 season). But, I would at least like to get a sense that the guys are playing in a coordinated way, using some sort of defensive system that produces stops, or at least shows us flashes of what could be down the road. It is a bit mystifying to me that we haven't brought in a defensive guru. It's obviously the one thing that would significantly improve our team, and yet, nothing. Lastly, I would add that for all his weaknesses at Seton Hall, Louis Orr had three top 40 defenses and never one worse than 77th, and in the last three years we haven't even been top 100.
|
|
kbones17
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,186
|
Post by kbones17 on Dec 2, 2020 20:18:29 GMT -5
I would also like to see more of the young guys in lieu of some of the transfers but Ewing needs to worry about W's. Even if increased playing time benefits the freshmen next year, if we have a terrible season Pat may not be around to benefit from that development. Everybody loves wins, and I hope we get some, but what I really want to see, and which has been absent even against UMBC, is a basketball team playing as a coherent team and unit. On the defensive end, this simply has not happened since Ewing began. Last night against Navy we gave up 1.13 points per possession to a Patriot League team. That is truly atrocious defense, and we have not seen any improvement over changing rosters, etc. Over the last few years, at times, we have had decent offense (like against Oklahoma State last year), but that has been a mess this year, too. No spacing. Guys are chucking threes because they cannot otherwise get open. Wahab is bigger than his opponents, so he can do pretty well (as Govan and Yurtseven did against smaller OOC teams), but that is likely to go away in the Big East. I know people hate a slow pace, and I am not wedded to a slow pace, but the advantage of a slower, more deliberate offense is that it's easier to carve up bad defenses, like ours. Does anybody seriously think our defense can put together consistent 30-second sequences without errors that leave somebody open? On that note, Navy...again, Navy...torched our press. Pressing on defense does not work unless you have the personnel to do it AND it's well coached. There's a reason why Pitino, and only a handful of other coaches still play that way (and why it's non-existent in the NBA). So, that isn't going to be the solution. The real problem is that any defense requires team-play, coordination, and coaching. Clearly, we do not have a high level of talent, so I do not think anybody expects a top notch defense (which Georgetown has not had since the 2013 season). But, I would at least like to get a sense that the guys are playing in a coordinated way, using some sort of defensive system that produces stops, or at least shows us flashes of what could be down the road. It is a bit mystifying to me that we haven't brought in a defensive guru. It's obviously the one thing that would significantly improve our team, and yet, nothing. Lastly, I would add that for all his weaknesses at Seton Hall, Louis Orr had three top 40 defenses and never one worse than 77th, and in the last three years we haven't even been top 100. Good post. I continue to think that our 3/4 court “soft press” is our best standard defense off of makes. Bleeds some clock and allows our defense to defend less time in the half court. Mix in some zone out of time outs. Trap a guard if a certain guard is killing us. Switch it up for God’s sakes ; don’t allow a team to walk up the court and run their stuff over and over again.
|
|
|
Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Dec 3, 2020 15:09:51 GMT -5
We are who we thought we were. It's as simple as that. Despite the hoya colored lens and the people saying we would surprise to the upside, we don't have the talent level nor do we have continuity. Those are the two biggest determining factors of success in college basketball. The system needs to be better, the development needs to be better, the recruiting needs to be better and then, and only then, will the W's follow. I'll bet Pat has a minimum of two more years to show improvement. I hope he does because this isn't going to be an easy parting of ways if not.
I for one think we need someone from outside the family but inside the DC scene to turn us into a contender. That is easier to do now but I don't think our administration has a lot of creativity when it comes to finding coaches. We just don't have experience in it and have lacked imagination since the JT Jr. hire. Esherick, JTIII and Patrick are not creative hires. That doesn't mean they weren't or aren't the right hire, but it's not in the administrations DNA to figure it out.
|
|
mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,567
|
Post by mdtd on Dec 3, 2020 17:34:34 GMT -5
Believe me I want to share your optimism. Not at all interested in starting over yet again with a new staff and another change in direction. But from under the rock in which I live I believe that there is a difference between execution and effort. Execution improves with practice as you correctly point out. I hope that after 10 games we see that improve. But effort should not require practice. Coming out flat and being outhustled is not something that is explained away by lack of practice. Tactics that involve forcing a ball inside and never kicking the ball out is not a practice issue, that is a coaching strategy and should have been addressed when it was clear it was not working. Players abandoning ball movement and going iso is not a practice issue but a composure issue. Knowing how to extend the game is not something that these kids needed to practice. It may be a new team but the starting lineup consisted of 2 seniors, two senior transfers and a sophomore. As for Pickett and Blair, you cannot find someone who appreciates and roots for these kids harder than me. I think both deserve tremendous credit, even while acknowledging their flaws. Using timeouts to stop another team's momentum is a coaches decision, not dependent upon practice. You are clearly a passionate supporter of the team and someone whose defense of the current regime often counters the negativism that many of us feel when watching the product on the floor. We both want this team and this coach to succeed. He is an all-time great Hoya and you can tell he wants to win. But the problems after two games are not new for the most part. The faces are new, the lack of defense is not. Let's both hope for the evolution you expect to occur. Let's hope for Ewing to have a long career as the coach. But that does not change the fact that he needs to earn the job and we need to see the style of play we saw last year when he was up against incredible odds. My point is in what world can you expect any team with this level of turnover to pick up where they left off last season? Particularly when you graduated your 3 most important players from a roster that lost 5 to transfer that season? I’m not trying to be optimistic I’m just being realistic. To expect Ewing to duplicate the exact same results/play style that took 2/3 of a season of a season for us to build while barely practicing a month and having no workouts? The game isn’t played on paper, these are humans. Just stop and honk about it for a second, really think about it. Ewing showed the ability to rally his team, if you didn’t see fight from the team and a valiant effort that allowed us to play greater than the sum of our parts last year after the transfers I’m not sure what team you were watching. If you did notice, like you alluded to in your first post, then you have to realize it takes more than 2 games and 20 practices to get the team to gel on that level right? This knee-jerk fandom is exhausting... The point is more that we got to this low point and haven't seen any coaching improvements to warrant confidence in the future of the program. Our shooters shot the ball well from deep and Navy still beat us relatively comfortably. It was a coaching loss. The coach of Navy said we played right into their hands offensively and defensively I don't think anyone can argue it has been good. We over rotated and just looked bad. A few errors are one thing, but our pick and roll coverage sucking is another. This season is more about seeing coaching improvements and player development over anything else. Early on, I see neither. I don't see much hope for either, since our young guys aren't playing and our defense still sucks, and the offense wasn't nearly as well functioning as it looked at times last season. There was limited player movement, especially off the ball. That's on coaching. There also was limited defensive communication. Having guys not on the same page in certain instances is one thing. Not talking is another. If you have played on a basketball team with guys for a month, you still talk on defense. You can disagree, but you talk on defense. If the defense looked better, but with a few team chemistry mistakes every so often, that's fine. But, it was just consistently poor against Navy. That's completely different, imo. There is no chance that Coach is fired during the season, nor do I think there should be. Give him this season to see of we show those improvements, or if recruiting gets us another quality player. But, I'm saying now that I am incredibly skeptical of expecting any improvements in these areas and don't see an upside. I'd much rather be wrong than right, of course, but I just don't see it happening.
|
|
rhw485
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 742
|
Post by rhw485 on Dec 4, 2020 9:30:18 GMT -5
So I'm a glutton for punishment and re-watched the game w fast forwarding.
I can't believe i'm saying this...but I actually think our defense was worse in the 1st half than 2nd half. We were very fortunate to be in the game at halftime. I'll absolutely concede that down the stretch Navy hit some shots that you simply have to live with but we let them hang around and that's what happens.
There was no discernable defensive scheme changes throughout the game to try and force someone else to beat us in the half court. Tim I more aggressively hedged out on the pick and roll twice, but it resulted in two layups so no idea if that was a legitimate coaching change or just a miscommunication because the rest of the defenders didn't dig down to help.
But this is the most galling thing...we lost the effort plays. The most back-breaking play for me was when Navy got two offensive rebounds to get an and-1. First, we doubled the post for no reason to give an open 3. I hate that we dig down from the entry passer side, it leaves the most visible pass for a post man to execute. If Wahab can't guard a 6'8 guy in the post without help then we're toast. Then Wahab gets outmuscled for the rebound. Then the Navy player who took the three worked his way all the way inside around Pickett and then muscled through contact for the finish. We were up 5 at that point and that play signified they wanted it more.
If we had lost to Navy because we couldn't hit the broad sign of a barn but we gave effort, worked hard, and played defense, that would be one thing. Losses last year were tolerated and even applauded when the team was short handed because you knew they left everything on the court. If the team watches the game tape they can't say that with a straight face this time.
No expectations they keep it close w W Va, but I'll be looking for the effort plays as a sign on whether this team learned anything from the loss.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Dec 4, 2020 9:51:04 GMT -5
So I'm a glutton for punishment and re-watched the game w fast forwarding. I can't believe i'm saying this...but I actually think our defense was worse in the 1st half than 2nd half. We were very fortunate to be in the game at halftime. I'll absolutely concede that down the stretch Navy hit some shots that you simply have to live with but we let them hang around and that's what happens. There was no discernable defensive scheme changes throughout the game to try and force someone else to beat us in the half court. Tim I more aggressively hedged out on the pick and roll twice, but it resulted in two layups so no idea if that was a legitimate coaching change or just a miscommunication because the rest of the defenders didn't dig down to help. But this is the most galling thing...we lost the effort plays. The most back-breaking play for me was when Navy got two offensive rebounds to get an and-1. First, we doubled the post for no reason to give an open 3. I hate that we dig down from the entry passer side, it leaves the most visible pass for a post man to execute. If Wahab can't guard a 6'8 guy in the post without help then we're toast. Then Wahab gets outmuscled for the rebound. Then the Navy player who took the three worked his way all the way inside around Pickett and then muscled through contact for the finish. We were up 5 at that point and that play signified they wanted it more. If we had lost to Navy because we couldn't hit the broad sign of a barn but we gave effort, worked hard, and played defense, that would be one thing. Losses last year were tolerated and even applauded when the team was short handed because you knew they left everything on the court. If the team watches the game tape they can't say that with a straight face this time. No expectations they keep it close w W Va, but I'll be looking for the effort plays as a sign on whether this team learned anything from the loss. Did you just conveniently forget the effort play where Big Tim went to the ground and then 2 other Hoyas also dove to the ground to get the ball?
|
|
rhw485
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 742
|
Post by rhw485 on Dec 4, 2020 10:16:23 GMT -5
Did you just conveniently forget the effort play where Big Tim went to the ground and then 2 other Hoyas also dove to the ground to get the ball? The sequence that ended w Navy sacrificing their body for a charge? Saw it as more of a draw as opposed to the one that cost us 3 points directly in the 2nd half but that's fair. I will gladly amend my prior statement from "we lost the effort plays" to "we did not consistently win the effort plays". Broad point stands
|
|
HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
Posts: 4,991
|
Post by HoyaFanNY on Dec 5, 2020 11:44:08 GMT -5
maybe actually read what I wrote. Lol you’re writing in first grade level English and other people are at fault in this equation? coming from someone using lol ..l..
|
|
BigmanU
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 915
|
Post by BigmanU on Dec 5, 2020 18:39:57 GMT -5
I had to wait till the dust to settle:
I knew this would be a rough year waiting for the cavalry next year. This year's biggest problem is PG play and defense. PG is major issue needed to control tempo. The future is now and Dante should start. This year's rotation should be tightened up early.
PG D. Harris-stays in front of his man and tries to get others involved. He was a scorer in HS, but is making a conscience effort to be a facilitator first. G Blair G Carey-Very efficient but needs to shoot more when open F Pickett-not as down on Pickett as others, he is a solid forward. Others expect him to be more because of potential, but is is a solid player. C Wahab
Clark-Earned minutes and should see the floor more. Tim I.-need a back up big J. Harris- defensive liability
Wilson should eat some of Tim I's minutes if he does not lock in soon Bile should see spot duty if he's just an inconsistent chucker who can't figure out the flow of the offense.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,296
|
Post by prhoya on Dec 6, 2020 13:00:58 GMT -5
Good/Bad Jamorko?
Whenever he gets 3 of 8 3FGs, 7 of 12 FGs for 17 pts and “just” 2 TOs in 34 minutes, it’s a good line for... Good Jamorko.
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,547
|
Post by DanMcQ on Dec 7, 2020 19:11:53 GMT -5
|
|