the_way
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The Illest
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Post by the_way on Dec 2, 2020 7:52:24 GMT -5
Why has this taken 4 years? If he cannot figure out how to coach defense after 3 full seasons, and makes no effort to bring in a different assistant who can help in that regard, what are we doing? Others have said a lot on the game, so I don't have much to add specifically. Though, I did think at times Dante Harris played good on-ball defense despite his other weaknesses. This is about as hopeless as I have been ever in my Georgetown fandom. We have a low talent, poorly coached team. We have a coaching staff that has been progressing in the wrong direction since taking over. We have seen no discernible improvement through two games on a defense that has been absolutely putrid during the entire Ewing era. And, I see no desire/thirst for change, even though the situation we are in now, and likely will be in at the end of the season is far worse than the situation that brought about change in 2017. But, this is what happens when you try to make a change in leadership, and pick somebody who is unproven and needs on-the-job training. I will still hope for improvement, because I desperately want to see our program turn around, but I am not optimistic that will happen. The departures/transfers and recruiting have been issues up to this point. We have a thin roster in terms of depth this year. Putting those issues aside (yikes!): Whether we had better talent or not, the constant thing has been issues defensively during the Ewing era. There appears to be a systemic problem.
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Dec 2, 2020 7:55:29 GMT -5
I had very low expectations for this season, and we're still gonna find a way to disappoint.
Before the game I posted our defensive shot distribution for the UMBC game. Well avert your eyes....
Navy game Rim:39% Mid Range: 19% 3 pt: 42% (slightly worse than rate that was 303rd in country last year)
That's a shot distribution that would make Daryl Morey blush. Just a complete defensive breakdown across the board.
There are two benefits to not hard hedging: 1) your perimeter help defenders don't have to pinch in as much and leave shooters and 2) your big doesn't have to jump out too far to get beat off the dribble. We failed miserably on both counts. What's the point of playing drop coverage if your weakside defender is still gonna get sucked in and leave his shooter open? I was really disappointed in Wahab defensively, maybe foul trouble was on his mind but Navy guards weren't remotely concerned with him. They drove right through him and finished over him. His job is to wall off the rim and force the guard to settle for a jumper. Not even close.
Tim continues to look lost. His +/- jumps out although I think some of that is lineup construction w the bench. Either way there's no offensive development, mental errors on defense persist.
What does it say when the other coach is happy that you're throwing it into the post, and our coach says we need to do more of that?
That game was about the best case scenario for Pickett (ignoring how far off his misses were), Wahab set a career high, you even had Jalen Harris hitting step back 3s....and it still wasn't enough.
What a terrible debut for Bile. Comes into the game and immediately jacks an off-the-dribble long 2. Forced it on offense trying to be a hero. The thought of him carrying our bench units offensively.....yikes.
Rough Dante Harris game. I'm hopeful the shooting translates but his drive getting volleyball-spiked is the reality. He's quick enough to get by his man but finishing at the hoop in D1 game is different. His defense at least looked more competitive than J. Harris.
The broadcast said this is a young team....that's not even true. NEXT YEAR we'll be a young team. Here was the minutes distribution by class
Seniors: 112 min Juniors: 29 min (I know Carey is Grad transfer but considering him Junior given it's his 3rd year playing hoops) Sophomore: 40 min Freshmen: 19 min
We're reaching apathy. Only the diehards are left. We're not a standard bearer for the big east, we're an outright burden. We'll be a "bad loss" for any BE team trying to make tourney. But I blame myself, I choose to watch, the only question left to ask is why?
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Post by aleutianhoya on Dec 2, 2020 8:23:40 GMT -5
You need talent to win. Period. "Jimmy and Joes Beat Xs and Os," as the old saying goes.
The individual talent cupboard is bare, all. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the only RSCI Top 100 on the entire roster is Pickett -- and he was in the 80s. Let's be honest: To this point, he's underperformed his ranking. On your borderline/bubble NCAA team, he's probably a borderline starter. Akinjo and Yurt both were Top 100 guys on last year's roster....but both are gone.
You can make up for a lack of top-notch individual talent coming into your program by developing talent once it gets here or finding unheralded talent. Blair has developed nicely, and he'd be a nice piece on a good team, but he's certainly not a true standout. Mac and LeBlanc seemed to me to be good finds of relatively unheralded talent. That is, they seemed to be much better than their rankings. But....they're gone.
If you don't have any of the above, it's possible (albeit hard) to win by having a bunch of good (though not great) veteran and committed guys whose roles are well-defined and who fit together very well as a team. Needless to say....we have kind of the opposite of that given the turnover. Maybe if this whole roster were freshmen, you could theoretically have an NCAA team with it in two years, but it isn't. This is a veteran team. That may be hard to believe, but it's true. These guys have mainly finished developing.
Last but not least, it's possible to add at least a few points per game by dint of excellent in-game or game-prep coaching. Probably not more than that but a few points per game is significant. Again, I think it's fair to say that we haven't seen evidence of that to date.
We simply don't have the horses right now to compete. I would surmise that virtually any team in the top two or three of their conference (ANY CONFERENCE) would at least compete with us. We would be an underdog against 90% of major conference opponents.
To address an earlier question: This is rock bottom.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by calhoya on Dec 2, 2020 8:27:21 GMT -5
I know that I did not dream the style of play that briefly appeared for the last half of last season with a very limited team and no bench. That gave me hope that Ewing was the right guy after all. But nothing I have seen two games resembles the improvement I believed had occurred in year 3. He assembled these players--was it just to fill out a roster when he missed on preferred options or did he believe that these are hidden gems?
Start of the Game. The team was flat from the start. Yet despite being outhustled to every loose ball or rebound there was no substitution to bring in someone who might generate the energy needed until well after the first timeout. Do we not have that player on this team? The team's strategy was apparently to force the ball in to a center who was double and triple teamed, and yet not willing or able to make the kick out pass to an open shooter. As a sophomore who has now played for several years that should just be automatic. Coach complained about after the game, but that should have been addressed immediately and if the player cannot do it, then find someone who can or change the strategy.
Defense. This is a recurring problem for the past 3+ years. Lot's of different players, lot's of athletic players. Same inability to stop the opponent's 3 point shooting.
Post Play. Neither of the two posts who play has shown any improvement on offense from last year so far in terms of developing a shot more than 3 feet from the basket. Wahab ends up with nice stat line against a short team, but this strategy makes it easier for a shorter team to defend and yet at no point did the Hoyas try going small against Navy and come up with a quicker, more versatile lineup. Is it a matter of not having the players who can do that?
Where's the discipline? The team reverted to playing undisciplined, out-of-control ball on offense, reminiscent of watching the start of last year and the year before when guards would selfishly just chuck up shot after shot without running an offense and looking for the open man. It's still early, but newcomers, like Bile, should have been coached to play within a system instead of going into isolation mode on offense. Same for Carey trying to force a drive into the lane and charging. Does this team have more than 1-2 players who can drive and dish?
Ball movement. There are three kids on this team--Pickett, Blair and Carey (as well as the mysterious Berger, who may or may not ever play this year)--who can hit the outside shot and yet on offense the ball movement to get to the open man that we saw when the Hoyas had only 5-6 players last year has still not reappeared in the first two games this year. Small sample size but have to assume that this is something the coach wants to do. Are the players just going mind numb out there?
What the hell happened at the end of the game? Down in the last minute of the game but still within 5, why did so much time run off before stopping the clock? Even announcers wondered if they conceded. Did the players give up? Did their coach? It's not a young team and these kids should know how to lengthen the game by now. Why would you not fight until the end particularly with a new team that is trying to develop an identity.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Dec 2, 2020 8:32:01 GMT -5
RHW and Calhoya's posts point out the problem: It's, uh, everything. There's nothing that screams "well, at least that was good."
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 2, 2020 8:38:47 GMT -5
I had very low expectations for this season, and we're still gonna find a way to disappoint. Before the game I posted our defensive shot distribution for the UMBC game. Well avert your eyes.... Navy game Rim:39% Mid Range: 19% 3 pt: 42% (slightly worse than rate that was 303rd in country last year) That's a shot distribution that would make Daryl Morey blush. Just a complete defensive breakdown across the board. There are two benefits to not hard hedging: 1) your perimeter help defenders don't have to pinch in as much and leave shooters and 2) your big doesn't have to jump out too far to get beat off the dribble. We failed miserably on both counts. What's the point of playing drop coverage if your weakside defender is still gonna get sucked in and leave his shooter open? I was really disappointed in Wahab defensively, maybe foul trouble was on his mind but Navy guards weren't remotely concerned with him. They drove right through him and finished over him. His job is to wall off the rim and force the guard to settle for a jumper. Not even close. Tim continues to look lost. His +/- jumps out although I think some of that is lineup construction w the bench. Either way there's no offensive development, mental errors on defense persist. What does it say when the other coach is happy that you're throwing it into the post, and our coach says we need to do more of that? That game was about the best case scenario for Pickett (ignoring how far off his misses were), Wahab set a career high, you even had Jalen Harris hitting step back 3s....and it still wasn't enough. What a terrible debut for Bile. Comes into the game and immediately jacks an off-the-dribble long 2. Forced it on offense trying to be a hero. The thought of him carrying our bench units offensively.....yikes. Rough Dante Harris game. I'm hopeful the shooting translates but his drive getting volleyball-spiked is the reality. He's quick enough to get by his man but finishing at the hoop in D1 game is different. His defense at least looked more competitive than J. Harris. The broadcast said this is a young team....that's not even true. NEXT YEAR we'll be a young team. Here was the minutes distribution by class Seniors: 112 min Juniors: 29 min (I know Carey is Grad transfer but considering him Junior given it's his 3rd year playing hoops) Sophomore: 40 min Freshmen: 19 min We're reaching apathy. Only the diehards are left. We're not a standard bearer for the big east, we're an outright burden. We'll be a "bad loss" for any BE team trying to make tourney. But I blame myself, I choose to watch, the only question left to ask is why? Stat wise the top 5 were actually pretty good. It's just that the bench actually gave "0" production this game.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 2, 2020 9:04:52 GMT -5
Blair shot 2-11 from three. The bench shot 0-5 from three.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Dec 2, 2020 9:05:42 GMT -5
I had very low expectations for this season, and we're still gonna find a way to disappoint. Before the game I posted our defensive shot distribution for the UMBC game. Well avert your eyes.... Navy game Rim:39% Mid Range: 19% 3 pt: 42% (slightly worse than rate that was 303rd in country last year) That's a shot distribution that would make Daryl Morey blush. Just a complete defensive breakdown across the board. There are two benefits to not hard hedging: 1) your perimeter help defenders don't have to pinch in as much and leave shooters and 2) your big doesn't have to jump out too far to get beat off the dribble. We failed miserably on both counts. What's the point of playing drop coverage if your weakside defender is still gonna get sucked in and leave his shooter open? I was really disappointed in Wahab defensively, maybe foul trouble was on his mind but Navy guards weren't remotely concerned with him. They drove right through him and finished over him. His job is to wall off the rim and force the guard to settle for a jumper. Not even close. Tim continues to look lost. His +/- jumps out although I think some of that is lineup construction w the bench. Either way there's no offensive development, mental errors on defense persist. What does it say when the other coach is happy that you're throwing it into the post, and our coach says we need to do more of that? That game was about the best case scenario for Pickett (ignoring how far off his misses were), Wahab set a career high, you even had Jalen Harris hitting step back 3s....and it still wasn't enough. What a terrible debut for Bile. Comes into the game and immediately jacks an off-the-dribble long 2. Forced it on offense trying to be a hero. The thought of him carrying our bench units offensively.....yikes. Rough Dante Harris game. I'm hopeful the shooting translates but his drive getting volleyball-spiked is the reality. He's quick enough to get by his man but finishing at the hoop in D1 game is different. His defense at least looked more competitive than J. Harris. The broadcast said this is a young team....that's not even true. NEXT YEAR we'll be a young team. Here was the minutes distribution by class Seniors: 112 min Juniors: 29 min (I know Carey is Grad transfer but considering him Junior given it's his 3rd year playing hoops) Sophomore: 40 min Freshmen: 19 min We're reaching apathy. Only the diehards are left. We're not a standard bearer for the big east, we're an outright burden. We'll be a "bad loss" for any BE team trying to make tourney. But I blame myself, I choose to watch, the only question left to ask is why? Stat wise the top 5 were actually pretty good. It's just that the bench actually gave "0" production this game. Isn’t that the problem? That for our starting five, this was considered a “decent” game and yet we still lost by 7? Any other major conference team that gets an average performance from their starters would mop the floor with Navy (see Maryland) and an upset would only be possible if the better team was way off their game or the other team was perfect. The fact neither of those happened and we lost by 7 is the indictment on the talent / coaching of the program right now. This didn’t even feel like an upset.
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bigskyhoya
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Post by bigskyhoya on Dec 2, 2020 9:07:08 GMT -5
Defending the three pointer has long been a weakness with the Hoyas. But it's more than that now. Navy got to the rim with ease, sometimes without being hit at all. On the other side of the ball, we rarely get an easy layup in the half court offense. And when we have the advantage on the break, there are way too many turnovers (including silly offensive fouls). After all these years watching top teams succeed with a three point assault, how can we field a team with so many poor outside shooters?
It appears we have a fatal combination of lack of talent and bad decision making.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 2, 2020 9:15:14 GMT -5
We still design our offense around feeding the big man for two, eighties style. Opposing coaches must relish this flawed strategy. Navy coach indicated as such.
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Dec 2, 2020 9:37:01 GMT -5
We still design our offense around feeding the big man for two, eighties style. Opposing coaches must relish this flawed strategy. Navy coach indicated as such. I agree and it is a problem. The bigger problem, though, is what is the alternative? Blair is a low-30% spot-up or one dribble three point shooter. Mix in an occasional floater in the lane (juice that is probably not worth the squeeze). Pickett is a streaky spot-up 3pt shooter. He can't dribble and certainly can't dribble and shoot. Its been 3+ years...it is who they are. And we are lucky to have them. None of the newcomers have shown the ability to drive and finish or kick-out effectively. Nor does there appear to be a knockdown shooter in the bunch (Carey probably the closest, with is background and how he has looked so far). Its early for them obviously, but I don't think there is a newcomer that we can lean on for offense (like a Rodney Pryor). So that leaves us with eighties style, sans defense. Not great. hm
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 2, 2020 9:55:19 GMT -5
Stat wise the top 5 were actually pretty good. It's just that the bench actually gave "0" production this game. Isn’t that the problem? That for our starting five, this was considered a “decent” game and yet we still lost by 7? Any other major conference team that gets an average performance from their starters would mop the floor with Navy (see Maryland) and an upset would only be possible if the better team was way off their game or the other team was perfect. The fact neither of those happened and we lost by 7 is the indictment on the talent / coaching of the program right now. This didn’t even feel like an upset. Well yeah but the beach actually gave 0 The whole bench was useless. Usually even in a bad game from the bench at least one player has some production
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Post by RockawayHoya on Dec 2, 2020 9:55:25 GMT -5
What does it say when the other coach is happy that you're throwing it into the post, and our coach says we need to do more of that? That DeChellis post-game interview was eye-opening. For an opposing coach to come out and explicitly say that their gameplan was to allow us to do what we wanted to do in order for them to win... that's tough. He isn't wrong though. And without those 40+% 3-point shooters, we aren't necessarily either. We just don't have any reliable offensive options right now. And certainly nobody who warrants a double team to open up space for others. I thought it was noteworthy that for the first 4 possessions of the 2nd half when we turned that 3 point deficit into a 6 point lead, Q got 0 touches. We had our perimeter shooters let it fly in rhythm without forcing a post touch (like they expected us to) and we scored 11 quick points. I'm not saying we should never go into Q, but at some point you have to understand how the other team is playing you and what they want you to do in order to stay one step ahead.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 2, 2020 10:00:59 GMT -5
Defending the three pointer has long been a weakness with the Hoyas. But it's more than that now. Navy got to the rim with ease, sometimes without being hit at all. On the other side of the ball, we rarely get an easy layup in the half court offense. And when we have the advantage on the break, there are way too many turnovers (including silly offensive fouls). After all these years watching top teams succeed with a three point assault, how can we field a team with so many poor outside shooters? It appears we have a fatal combination of lack of talent and bad decision making. I think because Q was in so much foul trouble in the first game he is starting to behave like Govan did his final season, where he felt he was too important to get into foul trouble and so started playing matador defense. This needs to be corrected. He has to still play defense and be physical.
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guru
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Post by guru on Dec 2, 2020 10:25:25 GMT -5
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 2, 2020 10:27:23 GMT -5
No offense have you been under a rock all of 2020 or did you really buy into AIs practice tirade? What do you expect 2 games in with 9 new players with virtually 1/4 of a regular offseason. Things take time to gel....yes you did see correctly. Ewing coaches them up. It takes time....for example Bile looked very shaky last night but you can tell he was rusty and moving too fast and too excited. The potential is there for some players, it’s time to dig in. I’d be willing to bet Blair and Pickett don’t go out without a fight... We lost to Navy. Going into last night on KenPom they were ranked 199 (thanks to beating us they are now 178). Since the KenPom era began in 2002 (i.e., the last 18 years), Georgetown has only lost to worse teams in the OOC twice: Northeastern in 2013 (ranked 203) and Radford in 2015 (OT loss, ranked 222). It's a pretty bad loss. As far as "Ewing coaches them up," I think that's a highly debatable proposition at this point. Of the guys that are still on the team from last year, I really see no discernible improvement so far. And, the defense (which often is more coach dependent than offense) has been consistently bad for 4 years. There is very little basis for saying that anybody is being "coached up," whether you use the eye test, stats, or any measure.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Dec 2, 2020 10:40:09 GMT -5
I know that I did not dream the style of play that briefly appeared for the last half of last season with a very limited team and no bench. That gave me hope that Ewing was the right guy after all. But nothing I have seen two games resembles the improvement I believed had occurred in year 3. He assembled these players--was it just to fill out a roster when he missed on preferred options or did he believe that these are hidden gems? Start of the Game. The team was flat from the start. Yet despite being outhustled to every loose ball or rebound there was no substitution to bring in someone who might generate the energy needed until well after the first timeout. Do we not have that player on this team? The team's strategy was apparently to force the ball in to a center who was double and triple teamed, and yet not willing or able to make the kick out pass to an open shooter. As a sophomore who has now played for several years that should just be automatic. Coach complained about after the game, but that should have been addressed immediately and if the player cannot do it, then find someone who can or change the strategy. Defense. This is a recurring problem for the past 3+ years. Lot's of different players, lot's of athletic players. Same inability to stop the opponent's 3 point shooting. Post Play. Neither of the two posts who play has shown any improvement on offense from last year so far in terms of developing a shot more than 3 feet from the basket. Wahab ends up with nice stat line against a short team, but this strategy makes it easier for a shorter team to defend and yet at no point did the Hoyas try going small against Navy and come up with a quicker, more versatile lineup. Is it a matter of not having the players who can do that? Where's the discipline? The team reverted to playing undisciplined, out-of-control ball on offense, reminiscent of watching the start of last year and the year before when guards would selfishly just chuck up shot after shot without running an offense and looking for the open man. It's still early, but newcomers, like Bile, should have been coached to play within a system instead of going into isolation mode on offense. Same for Carey trying to force a drive into the lane and charging. Does this team have more than 1-2 players who can drive and dish? Ball movement. There are three kids on this team--Pickett, Blair and Carey (as well as the mysterious Berger, who may or may not ever play this year)--who can hit the outside shot and yet on offense the ball movement to get to the open man that we saw when the Hoyas had only 5-6 players last year has still not reappeared in the first two games this year. Small sample size but have to assume that this is something the coach wants to do. Are the players just going mind numb out there? What the hell happened at the end of the game? Down in the last minute of the game but still within 5, why did so much time run off before stopping the clock? Even announcers wondered if they conceded. Did the players give up? Did their coach? It's not a young team and these kids should know how to lengthen the game by now. Why would you not fight until the end particularly with a new team that is trying to develop an identity. No offense have you been under a rock all of 2020 or did you really buy into AIs practice tirade? What do you expect 2 games in with 9 new players with virtually 1/4 of a regular offseason. Things take time to gel....yes you did see correctly. Ewing coaches them up. It takes time....for example Bile looked very shaky last night but you can tell he was rusty and moving too fast and too excited. The potential is there for some players, it’s time to dig in. I’d be willing to bet Blair and Pickett don’t go out without a fight... Believe me I want to share your optimism. Not at all interested in starting over yet again with a new staff and another change in direction. But from under the rock in which I live I believe that there is a difference between execution and effort. Execution improves with practice as you correctly point out. I hope that after 10 games we see that improve. But effort should not require practice. Coming out flat and being outhustled is not something that is explained away by lack of practice. Tactics that involve forcing a ball inside and never kicking the ball out is not a practice issue, that is a coaching strategy and should have been addressed when it was clear it was not working. Players abandoning ball movement and going iso is not a practice issue but a composure issue. Knowing how to extend the game is not something that these kids needed to practice. It may be a new team but the starting lineup consisted of 2 seniors, two senior transfers and a sophomore. As for Pickett and Blair, you cannot find someone who appreciates and roots for these kids harder than me. I think both deserve tremendous credit, even while acknowledging their flaws. Using timeouts to stop another team's momentum is a coaches decision, not dependent upon practice. You are clearly a passionate supporter of the team and someone whose defense of the current regime often counters the negativism that many of us feel when watching the product on the floor. We both want this team and this coach to succeed. He is an all-time great Hoya and you can tell he wants to win. But the problems after two games are not new for the most part. The faces are new, the lack of defense is not. Let's both hope for the evolution you expect to occur. Let's hope for Ewing to have a long career as the coach. But that does not change the fact that he needs to earn the job and we need to see the style of play we saw last year when he was up against incredible odds.
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Dec 2, 2020 10:50:27 GMT -5
play the frigging young guys other than Pickett and Blair. playing grad transfers in a lost season makes zero sense.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Dec 2, 2020 10:57:28 GMT -5
play the frigging young guys other than Pickett and Blair. playing grad transfers in a lost season makes zero sense. Don't play your two best players. Don't play your more experienced, grad transfers who at this point, might be better than the young guys. So, instead of losing to Navy, we'd get destroyed. That makes a lot of sense. We don't have much in the tank to start, but you gotta put your best guys out there, even if it isn't much.
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Dec 2, 2020 12:44:49 GMT -5
play the frigging young guys other than Pickett and Blair. playing grad transfers in a lost season makes zero sense. Don't play your two best players. Don't play your more experienced, grad transfers who at this point, might be better than the young guys. So, instead of losing to Navy, we'd get destroyed. That makes a lot of sense. We don't have much in the tank to start, but you gotta put your best guys out there, even if it isn't much. maybe actually read what I wrote.
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