EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 9, 2020 13:18:32 GMT -5
I was worried about the assistant coaches until we started landing players. So long as the recruiting classes are good I don’t particularly care who is recruiting where and who of the three are landing players so long as Coach Pat is satisfied with their respective work. The 2021 class looks like it will be our best yet so this isn’t really a convo we should be worried about unless kids start to decommit or 2022 is a mess. I'd much rather have coaches that can develop players and are strong X&O's folks over recruiting prowess... Recruiting comes & goes but the other two rarely if ever let you down...
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Post by trillesthoya on Aug 9, 2020 13:40:18 GMT -5
I was worried about the assistant coaches until we started landing players. So long as the recruiting classes are good I don’t particularly care who is recruiting where and who of the three are landing players so long as Coach Pat is satisfied with their respective work. The 2021 class looks like it will be our best yet so this isn’t really a convo we should be worried about unless kids start to decommit or 2022 is a mess. I'd much rather have coaches that can develop players and are strong X&O's folks over recruiting prowess... Recruiting comes & goes but the other two rarely if ever let you down... Exactly. None of us are privy to the assistant coaches respective obligations. If we had no players coming in 2021 then I'd say we need new blood to enter the picture to change that, but since we appear to be on the right track why fix it if its not broken?
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Aug 9, 2020 14:18:13 GMT -5
I was worried about the assistant coaches until we started landing players. So long as the recruiting classes are good I don’t particularly care who is recruiting where and who of the three are landing players so long as Coach Pat is satisfied with their respective work. The 2021 class looks like it will be our best yet so this isn’t really a convo we should be worried about unless kids start to decommit or 2022 is a mess. If you swap landing players with winning games, I'd agree 100%. I don't think landing these guys will fix our defense, and if that's still a problem in the future I think something needs to be changed.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Aug 9, 2020 15:01:58 GMT -5
There has been a fair bit of recent criticism of Orr. Imagine if he was transitioned before the Riley and Billingsley commitment. I think we have no choice but to trust Patrick who best knows who is assigned to what and the status.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 9, 2020 17:27:45 GMT -5
It may be distasteful but it's only disrespectful, IMO, if people are asserting, based on assumptions, that someone isn't getting it done. To ask the question, I feel, is valid. How would you know? We don't know what each staff members responsibility is? How would I know what? That's sort of my point. I don't know. Maybe someone else does. Asking questions doesn't seem disrespectful.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Aug 9, 2020 18:16:00 GMT -5
Just interesting to me how people get all uptight and prickly if someone questions staff performance and yet it’s entirely okay to question a 17 year olds upside, background and suggest that he and/or his handlers are taking cash if ever they choose another school over gtown. If people are going to get on their high horse, they need to stay on it and not jump on and off as suits them.
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dense
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Post by dense on Aug 9, 2020 19:55:52 GMT -5
How would you know? We don't know what each staff members responsibility is? How would I know what? That's sort of my point. I don't know. Maybe someone else does. Asking questions doesn't seem disrespectful. No one would know any of that unless they were on staff. I dont get why anyone would ask the question or make assumptions whether its distasteful or disrespectful. It's all random speculation.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 9, 2020 21:34:32 GMT -5
How would I know what? That's sort of my point. I don't know. Maybe someone else does. Asking questions doesn't seem disrespectful. No one would know any of that unless they were on staff. I dont get why anyone would ask the question or make assumptions whether its distasteful or disrespectful. It's all random speculation. You're probably right. But, on the off chance that someone does know something (admittedly, unlikely), I don't see an issue with asking questions. Making assertions based on conjecture, however, is over the line. These are people's livelihoods we're talking about. We shouldn't be cavalier or careless in doing so.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 9, 2020 21:36:16 GMT -5
Just interesting to me how people get all uptight and prickly if someone questions staff performance and yet it’s entirely okay to question a 17 year olds upside, background and suggest that he and/or his handlers are taking cash if ever they choose another school over gtown. If people are going to get on their high horse, they need to stay on it and not jump on and off as suits them. This is an excellent point. In both cases, within bounds, I think questions are okay. To make snap judgments based on either assumptions or conjecture, however, is a really bad look at best and, certainly, irresponsible.
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mapei
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Post by mapei on Aug 10, 2020 9:20:59 GMT -5
The way I see it, Patrick has this year and next to get things in order: recruit well, retain players, win games, contend, represent the university well both on and off the court. As far as I'm concerned he can have anyone he wants on his staff. But, if the progress isn't there in two more years, it's time to make a big change and start a new tradition, not cling to old ones.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Aug 10, 2020 9:49:18 GMT -5
There has been a fair bit of recent criticism of Orr. Imagine if he was transitioned before the Riley and Billingsley commitment. I think we have no choice but to trust Patrick who best knows who is assigned to what and the status. Couple thoughts on assistants. Orr got a fair bit of criticism, and completely deserved, prior to the recent commitments. Orr got a fair bit of praise, and completely deserved, following the recent commitments. That all being said, I don't think he or anyone else on the staff is absolved of any future blame (not that the above quoted post is suggesting that, but I've seen them posted elsewhere) or that we've finally righted the ship and should blindly trust that things will be OK from here on out. Getting a couple of solid 3*s with some upside is great, but we've got a long way to go before we can declare this the turning point. I agree with other posters that it's not fair to assign percentages of responsibilities for recruiting, X's and O's, player development, etc. to each assistant. But these are shortcomings that have plagued us consistently the last several years, so we do know that there are shortcomings that no one on the staff is addressing. Kirby seems to be getting more of a pass than others because he seems to be landing more players on average than the other assistants. But we've got to be better across the board at the assistant positions to turn this around. It should be fine to debate whether the current assistants should be the ones to get that chance to make those improvements. 3 years gives us a pretty good track record to base opinions on at this point. My stance is that if we're going to stick it out with the ones that we've got, we have to see considerably better results on all fronts pretty soon. Watching conference foes accumulate 4*s and impact transfers and trying to convince ourselves that we're going to make up the gap by relying on player development and a system that hasn't proven to be successful yet isn't entirely encouraging. One development that has been a bright spot is the uptick in Crouch's involvement on the recruiting front. Players seem to like him and enjoy working with him. Would like to see this keep up and if he continues to develop as a coach / ambassador to the program, the program shouldn't hesitate if there's an opportunity to give him additional responsibilities.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Aug 10, 2020 13:51:19 GMT -5
Kevin Braswell is better qualified experience wise but doesn't have the academic qualifications yet. According to his interview on Dawg Talk, Kevin Braswell got his degree from Georgetown this past school year.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Aug 10, 2020 14:38:46 GMT -5
Fix the defense.
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Aug 10, 2020 14:45:11 GMT -5
Kevin Braswell is better qualified experience wise but doesn't have the academic qualifications yet. According to his interview on Dawg Talk, Kevin Braswell got his degree from Georgetown this past school year. I knew Braswell was working on it over the last year, didn't know if he completed his degree yet. Thanks for the update.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 10, 2020 14:50:25 GMT -5
As someone said, there are a lot of things we do not know. So what do we know?
1. Ewing is the head coach.
2. The assistant coaches have been the same since Ewing was hired. Orr, Waheed, Kirby.
3. The success of our recruiting is arguable. You can make arguments that yes, recruiting has gone pretty well. Or that it hasn't. I see the arguments on both sides. For 2020, I would say it was below average. 2021 seems better. This is colored by the fact that many of the better guys we recruited are no longer with the team.
4. We have not recruited the local area well. This is really pretty clear. That said, I agree that guys like Braswell essentially opening campaigning for a job at Georgetown is a bad look. We do not necessarily need someone who wore the blue and gray (though that's fine if the person is qualified), but we need someone who can land players. On his Dawg Tawk interview, Braswell made some pretty extraordinary claims about ability to land top players. I am skeptical but if he could actually do that, then I'd be all for hiring him.
5. The defense is atrocious. Now, we have no idea who coaches the defense. Some coaches do it themselves. Others hire defensive gurus to do it (Texas Tech, Texas last year, Michigan in the past). What do we know for CERTAIN? The team under Ewing, Orr, Waheed, and Kirby cannot get it done on defense. The roster has turned over almost entirely. Ewing has often blamed individual defenders. I dismiss this because the scheme stinks. I see it with my eyes. It shows up in the stats. It is not all that debatable.
Hiring a defense oriented assistant would be well worth the hire. I do not know who is out there, but the current group isn't getting it done. We know, at least for this year, Ewing is going nowhere. So how do we expect defense to improve? In my mind, Ewing either needs to let one of the assistants do an overhaul, hire someone new, or change his own approach radically. This is a major reason we have not gotten better, it is something you can control via coaching, and yet, we have the same group? I admire the quality of loyalty very much, but I also think it needs to be well placed. After the FGCU debacle, JT3 cleaned out his assistants, hired new ones, and got a nice recruiting class (it did not pan out as we would have liked, but nonetheless, it was a great class). What in our performance the last three years merits not making a change on defense?
This year (assuming it happens despite the pandemic) is truly crucial for Ewing and company. On paper, we probably have the worst roster we have had since Ewing took over except maybe his first season (no, Ewing did not start from scratch; he had two top 100 recruits, an almost top 100 recruit in Kaleb Johnson, Mosely, and others). This is a time where the coaching really matters. We do not have 5 stars walking through the door, and thus far, the staff hasn't been able to coach up the team on defense. I do not know enough to say whether individual guys should be hired or fired, but something needs to happen.
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Post by gambo on Aug 10, 2020 17:21:04 GMT -5
#5 is spot on!!! It was painful watching them play defense the last 3 years. It seems apparent that none of the 3 assistants has a clue about it. If they do, I havent seen it yet. Not sure why it will be any different going forward.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Aug 10, 2020 18:27:47 GMT -5
As someone said, there are a lot of things we do not know. So what do we know? 1. Ewing is the head coach. 2. The assistant coaches have been the same since Ewing was hired. Orr, Waheed, Kirby. 3. The success of our recruiting is arguable. You can make arguments that yes, recruiting has gone pretty well. Or that it hasn't. I see the arguments on both sides. For 2020, I would say it was below average. 2021 seems better. This is colored by the fact that many of the better guys we recruited are no longer with the team. 4. We have not recruited the local area well. This is really pretty clear. That said, I agree that guys like Braswell essentially opening campaigning for a job at Georgetown is a bad look. We do not necessarily need someone who wore the blue and gray (though that's fine if the person is qualified), but we need someone who can land players. On his Dawg Tawk interview, Braswell made some pretty extraordinary claims about ability to land top players. I am skeptical but if he could actually do that, then I'd be all for hiring him. 5. The defense is atrocious. Now, we have no idea who coaches the defense. Some coaches do it themselves. Others hire defensive gurus to do it (Texas Tech, Texas last year, Michigan in the past). What do we know for CERTAIN? The team under Ewing, Orr, Waheed, and Kirby cannot get it done on defense. The roster has turned over almost entirely. Ewing has often blamed individual defenders. I dismiss this because the scheme stinks. I see it with my eyes. It shows up in the stats. It is not all that debatable. Hiring a defense oriented assistant would be well worth the hire. I do not know who is out there, but the current group isn't getting it done. We know, at least for this year, Ewing is going nowhere. So how do we expect defense to improve? In my mind, Ewing either needs to let one of the assistants do an overhaul, hire someone new, or change his own approach radically. This is a major reason we have not gotten better, it is something you can control via coaching, and yet, we have the same group? I admire the quality of loyalty very much, but I also think it needs to be well placed. After the FGCU debacle, JT3 cleaned out his assistants, hired new ones, and got a nice recruiting class (it did not pan out as we would have liked, but nonetheless, it was a great class). What in our performance the last three years merits not making a change on defense? This year (assuming it happens despite the pandemic) is truly crucial for Ewing and company. On paper, we probably have the worst roster we have had since Ewing took over except maybe his first season (no, Ewing did not start from scratch; he had two top 100 recruits, an almost top 100 recruit in Kaleb Johnson, Mosely, and others). This is a time where the coaching really matters. We do not have 5 stars walking through the door, and thus far, the staff hasn't been able to coach up the team on defense. I do not know enough to say whether individual guys should be hired or fired, but something needs to happen. This is an objective deep dive into some concerns that may or may not need not be addressed. Great post!!
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Aug 10, 2020 19:36:09 GMT -5
What are we doing wrong defensively that good defenses get right?
Is it just better athletes? Better scheme? Better discipline?
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Aug 11, 2020 6:27:57 GMT -5
What are we doing wrong defensively that good defenses get right? Is it just better athletes? Better scheme? Better discipline? I wrote my defensive missive in the other thread: hoyatalk2.proboards.com/post/880904But the short answer to your question imo is yes.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Aug 11, 2020 7:39:58 GMT -5
The way I see it, Patrick has this year and next to get things in order: recruit well, retain players, win games, contend, represent the university well both on and off the court. As far as I'm concerned he can have anyone he wants on his staff. But, if the progress isn't there in two more years, it's time to make a big change and start a new tradition, not cling to old ones. Agree with this comment with the addition that while he may realistically have two years to prove he is right for this job (or longer given his ties to the past), it is wrong not to expect significant signs of progress this coming year. Representing the university well on and off the court is not going to be an issue with Ewing. He has checked that box. Recruiting effort is also not a problem. Recruiting philosophy and results are still a work in progress. Even with some seriously talented kids that he has brought in the past couple of years, the issue has been "fit" within what he seems to want to do with his team. He gave them too much freedom and it hurt the development of the team. It will be interesting to see if any of them are given the spotlight they apparently crave on their new teams. I think that this year's unheralded (and hopefully underrated) class will show us alot about the coach. Are they a collection of leftovers or does the coach have a new vision for what he wants and the ability to develop this group of kids into a team that can perform as a cohesive unit. I still cling to the hope that what we saw after the departures of Akinjo, LeBlanc and the others was a reflection of what Ewing can do with a group of kids focused on "we" and not "me." But if there are no signs of progress this year, I am not certain why it will be any different in another year.
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