LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jun 27, 2020 15:23:18 GMT -5
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jun 27, 2020 15:23:42 GMT -5
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 27, 2020 16:19:40 GMT -5
Krzyzewski's first three years @ Duke: 17-13 10-17 11-17 It's in the fourth season that he enjoyed a buoyantly successful year @ 24-10 (after having procured recruiting classes that would be the core of his first winning squad: Amaker, Alarie, Bilas, Dawkins). This isn't to suggest that Ewing will realize a similar narrative, but public accolades that have been showered on Krzyzewski over decades have skewed the perception of him as a coaching savant from the get. It's a little unfair to make the comparison. But there is a BIG difference. Kryzyewski's first season was with Bill Foster's recruits (Gene Banks, Kenny Denard, Vince Taylor, all very good players). A NIT quarterfinal run wasn't a bad finish for a first year coach. For 1981-82 he tried to recruit against the best in the ACC and lost every battle. This was "peak ACC"--Dean's first title team, the rise of Jim Valvano, Lefty Driesell, a top 20 team in Wake. He sputtered. For 1982-83 he made the decision to go all-freshman, with players that weren't highly known but who were really good: Johnny Dawkins, Mark Alarie, Jay Bilas, David Henderson, and Weldon Williams. They struggled against the likes of Jordan, Sampson, Bias, and the 1982 NC State title team. By seniors, they were in the NCAA final. Every accolade Krzyzewski has been bestowed with starts with the Class of 1986. Without it, he probably gets fired and ends up a coach in the MAAC somewhere. Which brings us to Ewing. We don't know if the Class of 2022 would bring that kind of historical result, but James Akinjo, Grayson Carter, Josh LeBlanc, and Mac McClung was his "Class of 1986" , and they're all gone. It's the fan in me for saying this, but a 2021-22 lineup with these players plus Wahab would have been a major NCAA contender and have the fans and media proclaiming that Georgetown is back for good. Ewing didn't manage the egos, didn't get them to play as a team, and it was noticeable. Just because players are on a team doesn't make them friends-- Mark Alarie was not the most beloved member of those teams, for example, because he considered himself the star. Bilas could have been the star but took a complementary role as Dawkins grew into the role. They all worked it out because Krzyzewski made it happen. Now, without a single post-season win (Big East tournament, NCAA, or NIT) out of that class, Ewing is left with what appears to be an open-call for recruits anywhere and everywhere. He has 81 offers open in the next two classes alone, and that number will grow. Krzyzewski followed up the Class of '86 with three parade-All-Americans: Tommy Amaker in 1983, Danny Ferry and Quin Snyder a year later. Ewing isn't getting that level. Instead of building on a foundational class that should now be competing in the Top 20, he's left with a constant scramble, and that not a good prospect for him long-term. "We would never have won in '91 without building on what the '86 team did," said Krzyzewski. "They defined the program. They became the example we've held up to every team since then, not just in how they played the game but in how they interacted with fans, how they handled class work. They laid the foundation." alumni.duke.edu/magazine/articles/86ers
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 27, 2020 16:45:42 GMT -5
hoya73 said: We'll see.Another comparison is that we're right where Nova was after Wright's first 3 years. No tournament and one sub-500 season among the first 3. I hope there's a signing of someone even better than Whitehead in our near future. Wright was a winning head coach with two NCAA T appearances when he was hired by Villanova. First three seasons at Nova? 3 NITs with two Quarterfinals and 3 BET wins. Fourth season? NCAA Sweet Sixteen. Pat had no college basketball coaching experience when he was hired by GU. First three seasons at GU? 1 NIT for a loss and 3 BET losses with 0 wins. Fourth season? Starting over with no changes to the coaching staff.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jun 27, 2020 17:33:18 GMT -5
Gene Banks, a blast from the past. Kid was a good player for Duke.
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 27, 2020 23:13:50 GMT -5
hoya73 said: We'll see.Another comparison is that we're right where Nova was after Wright's first 3 years. No tournament and one sub-500 season among the first 3. I hope there's a signing of someone even better than Whitehead in our near future. Wright was a winning head coach with two NCAA T appearances when he was hired by Villanova. First three seasons at Nova? 3 NITs with two Quarterfinals and 3 BET wins. Fourth season? NCAA Sweet Sixteen. Pat had no college basketball coaching experience when he was hired by GU. First three seasons at GU? 1 NIT for a loss and 3 BET losses with 0 wins. Fourth season? Starting over with no changes to the coaching staff. Not only that, but Wright's first three teams were ranked 52, 57, and 53. Georgetown's ranking the last three years: 94, 100, 67. Villanova in Wright's 4th year was 7th overall and made the Sweet 16. I know there are many posters way more optimistic than me, but can anybody say with a straight face that we will be a top 10, Sweet 16 team this coming year? Willard is a way better comparison because he truly was bad, and then suddenly got better with the Whitehead class on board. His first five Seton Hall teams were ranked 59, 55, 117, 94, 83. Then, a jump to 29, 51, 26, 60, 20, with four NCAA appearances (and another he would have had if COVID never happened this past year). That's virtually unheard of, in part because guys like Willard usually get fired (and rightfully so), after 5 bad seasons. Willard was on the hot seat and managed to turn it around, but that almost never happens after 5 bad years.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 28, 2020 7:33:56 GMT -5
Wright was a winning head coach with two NCAA T appearances when he was hired by Villanova. First three seasons at Nova? 3 NITs with two Quarterfinals and 3 BET wins. Fourth season? NCAA Sweet Sixteen. Pat had no college basketball coaching experience when he was hired by GU. First three seasons at GU? 1 NIT for a loss and 3 BET losses with 0 wins. Fourth season? Starting over with no changes to the coaching staff. Not only that, but Wright's first three teams were ranked 52, 57, and 53. Georgetown's ranking the last three years: 94, 100, 67. Villanova in Wright's 4th year was 7th overall and made the Sweet 16. I know there are many posters way more optimistic than me, but can anybody say with a straight face that we will be a top 10, Sweet 16 team this coming year? Willard is a way better comparison because he truly was bad, and then suddenly got better with the Whitehead class on board. His first five Seton Hall teams were ranked 59, 55, 117, 94, 83. Then, a jump to 29, 51, 26, 60, 20, with four NCAA appearances (and another he would have had if COVID never happened this past year). That's virtually unheard of, in part because guys like Willard usually get fired (and rightfully so), after 5 bad seasons. Willard was on the hot seat and managed to turn it around, but that almost never happens after 5 bad years. You misunderstand the spirit of comparisons apparently.
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hoya73
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Post by hoya73 on Jun 28, 2020 8:56:38 GMT -5
Hoyasaxa, as the poster who brought up Wright in this thread, I take your point and thank you for your response. I think you're probably right that we're hoping at best for either of 2 improbable outcomes, a miraculous next season run or a Willard-like turnaround, maybe after 4 rather than 5 bad years? I'll continue to hope, but appreciate the dose of realism.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jun 28, 2020 10:02:15 GMT -5
Mark Tillmon and Mark Thompson on today’s episode of Locker Room Talk
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 28, 2020 10:51:37 GMT -5
Not only that, but Wright's first three teams were ranked 52, 57, and 53. Georgetown's ranking the last three years: 94, 100, 67. Villanova in Wright's 4th year was 7th overall and made the Sweet 16. I know there are many posters way more optimistic than me, but can anybody say with a straight face that we will be a top 10, Sweet 16 team this coming year? Willard is a way better comparison because he truly was bad, and then suddenly got better with the Whitehead class on board. His first five Seton Hall teams were ranked 59, 55, 117, 94, 83. Then, a jump to 29, 51, 26, 60, 20, with four NCAA appearances (and another he would have had if COVID never happened this past year). That's virtually unheard of, in part because guys like Willard usually get fired (and rightfully so), after 5 bad seasons. Willard was on the hot seat and managed to turn it around, but that almost never happens after 5 bad years. You misunderstand the spirit of comparisons apparently. No, 2003 nailed it, and the original Wright poster agreed.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jun 28, 2020 12:46:12 GMT -5
On a separate Instagram Live Dawg Talk session today, Austin Freeman was asked why Georgetown isn’t getting local recruits. His response was that local kids right now see Georgetown as a mid major. He said that in terms of local schools, there’s Maryland...and then there’s the Georgetown’s, GWs, and George Masons.
They think it’s something that can be fixed with winning and better recruiting, and that it wasn’t like that when they were in school. But they said it’ll take some time and some work to restore that image locally.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jun 28, 2020 12:51:14 GMT -5
Today’s podcast with Kevin Braswell and Mike Sweeney was really interesting. It sounds like Braswell to my ear is closer to having an opportunity to join the staff; it looks like he understands that the players he brings are as important as what he can teach them. In fact, he might be a long-term replacement candidate for PE after having been a professional coach already.
In any case all this public conversation about the make up of the coaching staff puts a bit of pressure on PE. While the concept of having Austin Freeman or Chris Wright on the staff is nice, it doesn’t sound like they have current relationships with players of note. They might know the coaches. They might know people in the infrastructure. Braswell sounded more specific about player relationships Both down under and In Baltimore. What a prospective employee can do now is always more compelling than what he is planning to do.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jun 28, 2020 15:16:41 GMT -5
Big congratulations to Kevin Braswell on earning his Georgetown degree! Patrick Ewing and Patrick Ewing Jr helped him come back to campus last Fall to complete his degree after he was fired from his previous coaching job last summer.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 28, 2020 15:50:15 GMT -5
You misunderstand the spirit of comparisons apparently. No, 2003 nailed it, and the original Wright poster agreed. No, and you misunderstood the point I was trying to drive home. Kindly excuse yourself.
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 28, 2020 15:53:42 GMT -5
On a separate Instagram Live Dawg Talk session today, Austin Freeman was asked why Georgetown isn’t getting local recruits. His response was that local kids right now see Georgetown as a mid major. He said that in terms of local schools, there’s Maryland...and then there’s the Georgetown’s, GWs, and George Masons. They think it’s something that can be fixed with winning and better recruiting, and that it wasn’t like that when they were in school. But they said it’ll take some time and some work to restore that image locally. This makes sense. Mid major might be a little harsh, but the reality is that kids want to win. We are not winning, and haven't won in some time (not singling out Ewing here - the latter JT3 years also contributed), so we simply are not going to be an attractive landing spot. I truly think, at this point, winning is probably the only thing that will solve this problem. Before last season, I was really hopeful that if we could get into the NCAA tournament this past season, it would really help show an upward trajectory (no tournament, NIT, NCAA) and give us a recruiting jolt. While there was no tournament anyway, the seeming lack of progress, combined with the departures, and significant roster turnover make Georgetown a tough sell. I do think there's a bias that causes us, as fans, sometimes to overestimate the benefit of the past. Georgetown has a storied history, Ewing is a Georgetown (and NBA) great, and it was a mammoth program in the 1980s/1990s, and even had a nice run in the mid-2000s. But, that might as well be ancient history to these guys that are being recruited now. They mostly do not care about that stuff. Which is why, one way or another, we need to figure out a way to win even if we cannot recruit better. This is partly why I emphasize the defense so much. Putting a better defensive product out there should be possible regardless of our roster, and it'll allow us to win games. We aren't going to get top 50 recruits regularly, and even maybe top 100, until we turn things around and show progress. If we end up not getting Ryan Mutombo next year, this is going to be why.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 28, 2020 16:05:20 GMT -5
No, 2003 nailed it, and the original Wright poster agreed. No, and you misunderstood the point I was trying to drive home. Kindly excuse yourself. No, and the original poster agreed with us re: Wright and disagreed with your point. But you do you.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 28, 2020 16:12:51 GMT -5
No, and you misunderstood the point I was trying to drive home. Kindly excuse yourself. No, and the original poster agreed with us re: Wright and disagreed with your point. But you do you. “Kindly excuse yourself” = stop responding to me. Is it that hard? Hahahah not to mention I JuST read the response and if you think that poster agrees with your retort as constructed I have a few bridges to sell you. They said they appreciated your position, but you’re still missing some pretty elementary points. You still haven’t exhibited any understanding of the whole impetus for a Wright/K/whoever prediction. I’ve already wasted enough time or I’d spell it out for you
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Jun 28, 2020 17:45:41 GMT -5
No, and the original poster agreed with us re: Wright and disagreed with your point. But you do you. “Kindly excuse yourself” = stop responding to me. Is it that hard? Hahahah not to mention I JuST read the response and if you think that poster agrees with your retort as constructed I have a few bridges to sell you. They said they appreciated your position, but you’re still missing some pretty elementary points. You still haven’t exhibited any understanding of the whole impetus for a Wright/K/whoever prediction. I’ve already wasted enough time or I’d spell it out for you Are you this arrogant in real life?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 28, 2020 18:06:23 GMT -5
No, and the original poster agreed with us re: Wright and disagreed with your point. But you do you. “Kindly excuse yourself” = stop responding to me. Is it that hard? Hahahah not to mention I JuST read the response and if you think that poster agrees with your retort as constructed I have a few bridges to sell you. They said they appreciated your position, but you’re still missing some pretty elementary points. You still haven’t exhibited any understanding of the whole impetus for a Wright/K/whoever prediction. I’ve already wasted enough time or I’d spell it out for you The more you write trying to make your point, the more desperate you look. The poster appreciated the, in his words, the dose of realism.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jun 28, 2020 21:21:23 GMT -5
No, and the original poster agreed with us re: Wright and disagreed with your point. But you do you. “Kindly excuse yourself” = stop responding to me. Is it that hard? Hahahah not to mention I JuST read the response and if you think that poster agrees with your retort as constructed I have a few bridges to sell you. They said they appreciated your position, but you’re still missing some pretty elementary points. You still haven’t exhibited any understanding of the whole impetus for a Wright/K/whoever prediction. I’ve already wasted enough time or I’d spell it out for you Rock...how many Editeding contests can you participate in at one time? Let it go man...life is good!!
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