rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Jun 26, 2020 3:55:39 GMT -5
So I want to be sure I understand....you think there are other sources as insightful as Jeff Green in a candid setting with regard to what Jeff Green was thinking the Spring he left the program? You wanna buy a bridge? I think that Jeff Green's quotes from 2007 are just as accurate, if not more accurate, than his recollection in 2020, thirteen years later, yes. Really, how?
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Jun 26, 2020 4:04:05 GMT -5
I think you would have had a huge minutes problem though especially if Chris doesn't get hurt. That's what really killed that team before the tourney. Chris was playing and he had just comeback and trying to get him reintergrated was going on. if Chris played that whole season, JT3 would have had a tough decision cause Chris clearly is better than Jessie and would have shown by BE play. Whats great about the episodes so far is that all four of them loved the Princeton offense. In the Chris Wright/Austin Freeman locker room talk episode (pre Dawg Talk) they mentioned multiple times that they didn’t like the Princeton Offense because it didn’t necessarily fit the personnel that they had. Ehh I’m not sure that’s exactly what they said, seems like a loose interpretation to me. They didn’t outright say they didn’t like it, just that JT3’s later hybrid offenses probably would’ve been better suited to their game, which is accurate. They were a deliberate departure into a new echelon of recruits who had the ability to step in day one and be expected to contribute. If anything, listening to the podcast you can reasonably infer that Austin and Chris were some of the individuals who didn’t completely buy in to the Princeton. With any offensive or defensive scheme, it’s often more important that everyone be on the same page for it to work.
|
|
jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,977
|
Post by jwp91 on Jun 26, 2020 13:49:56 GMT -5
Wow. Listening to Chris and Austin on Kente Corner. I’m really impressed with the leadership that they (especially Chris) are demonstrating to attempt to influence the trajectory of the program. I hope they can have an impact especially from their somewhat distant roles.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,440
|
Post by TC on Jun 26, 2020 14:07:39 GMT -5
It was interesting when Chris shared last night that the impetus for Dawg Talk was Mac’s comments about the family as it relates to the program. Agree. It's not surprising that those that buy into the family and don't put themselves ahead of the family feel more included and familial. The ironic part is that Mac could learn a lot from CW. Like the show, we don't need to use it as a way to take shots at Mac. I'm not sure what Mac and Omer went through this year being injured, watching the team lose, having fans take shots at them for being hurt and not playing, and having to balance their professional prospects with being pressured to play for an absolute disaster of a team that was going nowhere. Both Chris and Austin missed time with injuries and medical conditions. People were supportive of them. They were less so of Omer and Mac.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 26, 2020 14:28:47 GMT -5
This is a common refrain when discussing alumni. First, you can only keep so many people on staff. This isn't like a professional team where you have a bunch of scouts, coaches, etc. We have three assistants. Could Freeman or Wright be good in that role, or in the role Wallace once had? Maybe, but Wright has no coaching experience, and Freeman is relatively new to the area. Give it a few years, and maybe it would make sense. Right now, it probably does not. Hey, if there is room for them, that's fine. But, it's not just a matter of putting them on the payroll. As it is, Freeman and Wright clearly love Georgetown. I think through Dawg Talk they are increasing not only their exposure, but also exposure to the program, and that can only be a good thing. Clearly, we need better local recruiting. The problem, at this point, is that we have been so bad that Ewing has a really hard sell, no matter who the assistants are. It's abundantly clear from Ewing Jr.'s interview that Ewing Jr., Freeman, and Wright all considered Georgetown because of the upward trajectory of the program. That's the easiest way to sell to recruits, and it's not something we can offer at the moment, sadly.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 26, 2020 14:38:02 GMT -5
I think that Jeff Green's quotes from 2007 are just as accurate, if not more accurate, than his recollection in 2020, thirteen years later, yes. Really, how? Green's comments in the podcast that have formed the basis of this thread were what, 20-30 seconds? I didn't count and I am not going to waste the time to go back and see how long it was. Regardless, it was not extensive commentary, and the discussion quickly moved on to other topics. As I said, I think what Green said is consistent with what he said in the past (i.e., he wanted to return for a senior year and get a degree). As TC said, I take issue with those who say that Green did not have agency in making that decision. I mean, even as late as late February 2007, Green's mother seemed skeptical about him going to the NBA, and yet others imply that he allowed JT3 to force him to do something against his will. Frankly, I think that's insulting to Green, who is very clearly a smart and intelligent guy. On the macro issue, in my profession, I have dealt with a LOT of instances where people are required to reach back into their memory to remember documents or conversations that happened in the past, and extremely frequently individuals' recollection is either not entirely accurate, hazy, informed by things that have happened in the intervening years, or they simply don't remember it. With Green, we are talking about something that happened over 13 years ago. While it was surely a memorable time in Green's life, and he likely remembers much more about the Final Four/draft than other things that were happening, it would be totally unreasonable to expect him to have a perfect recall of 13 years ago. I think this discussion is silly anyway. Green's comments were less than a minute, but some people here chose to take the comments, and run with them to make conclusions that are likely untrue. Ultimately, it doesn't really matter.
|
|
jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,977
|
Post by jwp91 on Jun 26, 2020 14:39:13 GMT -5
Agree. It's not surprising that those that buy into the family and don't put themselves ahead of the family feel more included and familial. The ironic part is that Mac could learn a lot from CW. Like the show, we don't need to use it as a way to take shots at Mac. I'm not sure what Mac and Omer went through this year being injured, watching the team lose, having fans take shots at them for being hurt and not playing, and having to balance their professional prospects with being pressured to play for an absolute disaster of a team that was going nowhere. Both Chris and Austin missed time with injuries and medical conditions. People were supportive of them. They were less so of Omer and Mac. Mac walked away from this program. Fact.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,440
|
Post by TC on Jun 26, 2020 14:44:17 GMT -5
Like the show, we don't need to use it as a way to take shots at Mac. I'm not sure what Mac and Omer went through this year being injured, watching the team lose, having fans take shots at them for being hurt and not playing, and having to balance their professional prospects with being pressured to play for an absolute disaster of a team that was going nowhere. Both Chris and Austin missed time with injuries and medical conditions. People were supportive of them. They were less so of Omer and Mac. Mac walked away from this program. Fact. I don't blame him one bit for that. The program is a disaster.
|
|
LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
|
Post by LCPolo18 on Jun 26, 2020 15:29:00 GMT -5
This is a common refrain when discussing alumni. First, you can only keep so many people on staff. This isn't like a professional team where you have a bunch of scouts, coaches, etc. We have three assistants. Could Freeman or Wright be good in that role, or in the role Wallace once had? Maybe, but Wright has no coaching experience, and Freeman is relatively new to the area. Give it a few years, and maybe it would make sense. Right now, it probably does not. Hey, if there is room for them, that's fine. But, it's not just a matter of putting them on the payroll. As it is, Freeman and Wright clearly love Georgetown. I think through Dawg Talk they are increasing not only their exposure, but also exposure to the program, and that can only be a good thing. Clearly, we need better local recruiting. The problem, at this point, is that we have been so bad that Ewing has a really hard sell, no matter who the assistants are. It's abundantly clear from Ewing Jr.'s interview that Ewing Jr., Freeman, and Wright all considered Georgetown because of the upward trajectory of the program. That's the easiest way to sell to recruits, and it's not something we can offer at the moment, sadly. As I previously said in a post the other day, they don't have to be hired as one of the three recruiting assistants. There's currently no assistant director of basketball operations, which was Patrick Ewing Jr's first title with the program. And I'm sure they could have more than one special assistant (Clinton Crouch's current role and Jonathan Wallace's former role).
|
|
jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,977
|
Post by jwp91 on Jun 26, 2020 15:57:39 GMT -5
Mac walked away from this program. Fact. I don't blame him one bit for that. The program is a disaster. Well then , you know what to do You are either part of the solution or part of the problem.... It is pretty clear what you are.
|
|
LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
|
Post by LCPolo18 on Jun 26, 2020 16:35:14 GMT -5
In the Chris Wright/Austin Freeman locker room talk episode (pre Dawg Talk) they mentioned multiple times that they didn’t like the Princeton Offense because it didn’t necessarily fit the personnel that they had. Ehh I’m not sure that’s exactly what they said, seems like a loose interpretation to me. They didn’t outright say they didn’t like it, just that JT3’s later hybrid offenses probably would’ve been better suited to their game, which is accurate. They were a deliberate departure into a new echelon of recruits who had the ability to step in day one and be expected to contribute. If anything, listening to the podcast you can reasonably infer that Austin and Chris were some of the individuals who didn’t completely buy in to the Princeton. With any offensive or defensive scheme, it’s often more important that everyone be on the same page for it to work. Totally agree with you about their comments during the Dawg Talk episode with Patrick Ewing Jr. I was talking about their comments during the Locker Room talk Part 2 episode that I've linked below. At the 2:42 remaining mark, they make the following comments about their senior year: "Alright let's set the record straight, we were not exactly always happy with the Princeton... We thought we could be using our talents in different ways... Thought we could have been way more explosive." www.instagram.com/tv/CBJND4-BaE9/
|
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,314
|
Post by tashoya on Jun 26, 2020 16:46:45 GMT -5
Mac walked away from this program. Fact. I don't blame him one bit for that. The program is a disaster. Mac also made comments about not having a family feel. Austin and Chris talked exactly about that. I grant that it's a different time. But pointing out that Mac could have learned something from those guys isn't a "shot" at anyone.
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,120
|
Post by RBHoya on Jun 26, 2020 16:59:00 GMT -5
Clearly, we need better local recruiting. The problem, at this point, is that we have been so bad that Ewing has a really hard sell, no matter who the assistants are. It's abundantly clear from Ewing Jr.'s interview that Ewing Jr., Freeman, and Wright all considered Georgetown because of the upward trajectory of the program. That's the easiest way to sell to recruits, and it's not something we can offer at the moment, sadly. Any coach who takes over for a coach who was fired faces the same thing, though. It's never an easy situation to be in because it's tough to win without the recruits and it's tough to recruit without winning. And yet, we know programs rise and fall all the time. Somehow, you have to create positive momentum--that's really the challenge. Usually coaches who lift programs up do it through some combination of winning with unheralded players (which helps boost your recruiting) or recruiting good players without a recent history of on-court success. You have to be able to find a way to do one or both. If you can't, you were the wrong hire. With regard to Free and Wright, IMHO they are probably in the right places at the moment. Having Austin as an ally at DeMatha, who churns out a couple high major players each year, might be good for us. If in a couple years he has established himself as a coaching personality in the area he would certainly warrant consideration at Georgetown. Wright is obviously still playing but has the right personality to be a recruiter eventually. In general you wouldn't hire someone without coaching experience to a recruiting assistant position at Georgetown--more likely you'd promote someone who had learned the ropes as a DoBO or Assistant DoBO, or who had been a successful assistant at a mid-major school, or perhaps who had a strong presence in the local AAU or high school scene (ie. Dave Cox before he went to Pitt). As others have mentioned, there's nothing that prevents us from bring in some youth and energy to the staff as a non-recruiting assistant. It's crystal clear to me that an infusion of youth is needed in some capacity. As Free and Wright have pointed out, kids today want to connect through social, nobody wants to talk on the phone anymore. And the social media presence of our coaching staff is terrible. I'd be thrilled to have a recruiting assistant who was born in the Mid-80s or later, well-connected in the area and social media savvy, but at this point I'd settle for any signs of life. It's astonishing that we're going to keep going with exactly the same crew after how the last few years have gone.
|
|
the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,419
|
Post by the_way on Jun 26, 2020 17:31:47 GMT -5
I don't blame him one bit for that. The program is a disaster. Mac also made comments about not having a family feel. Austin and Chris talked exactly about that. I grant that it's a different time. But pointing out that Mac could have learned something from those guys isn't a "shot" at anyone. Plus, others on the team felt the family feel while at G-town. Others stayed, while Mac decided to leave. Mac felt he had to do what was best for him. Others who stayed with the program have done the same.
|
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,314
|
Post by tashoya on Jun 26, 2020 20:27:39 GMT -5
Clearly, we need better local recruiting. The problem, at this point, is that we have been so bad that Ewing has a really hard sell, no matter who the assistants are. It's abundantly clear from Ewing Jr.'s interview that Ewing Jr., Freeman, and Wright all considered Georgetown because of the upward trajectory of the program. That's the easiest way to sell to recruits, and it's not something we can offer at the moment, sadly. Any coach who takes over for a coach who was fired faces the same thing, though. It's never an easy situation to be in because it's tough to win without the recruits and it's tough to recruit without winning. And yet, we know programs rise and fall all the time. Somehow, you have to create positive momentum--that's really the challenge. Usually coaches who lift programs up do it through some combination of winning with unheralded players (which helps boost your recruiting) or recruiting good players without a recent history of on-court success. You have to be able to find a way to do one or both. If you can't, you were the wrong hire. With regard to Free and Wright, IMHO they are probably in the right places at the moment. Having Austin as an ally at DeMatha, who churns out a couple high major players each year, might be good for us. If in a couple years he has established himself as a coaching personality in the area he would certainly warrant consideration at Georgetown. Wright is obviously still playing but has the right personality to be a recruiter eventually. In general you wouldn't hire someone without coaching experience to a recruiting assistant position at Georgetown--more likely you'd promote someone who had learned the ropes as a DoBO or Assistant DoBO, or who had been a successful assistant at a mid-major school, or perhaps who had a strong presence in the local AAU or high school scene (ie. Dave Cox before he went to Pitt). As others have mentioned, there's nothing that prevents us from bring in some youth and energy to the staff as a non-recruiting assistant. It's crystal clear to me that an infusion of youth is needed in some capacity. As Free and Wright have pointed out, kids today want to connect through social, nobody wants to talk on the phone anymore. And the social media presence of our coaching staff is terrible. I'd be thrilled to have a recruiting assistant who was born in the Mid-80s or later, well-connected in the area and social media savvy, but at this point I'd settle for any signs of life. It's astonishing that we're going to keep going with exactly the same crew after how the last few years have gone. To dovetail off of this, the "family" feel that Chris and Austin talked about isn't specific to Georgetown. However, there's a reason Chris and Austin can get KD on a podcast at the drop of a hat. It seems to me that the DMV basketball community is a bit of a family all on its own. These guys know each other, across generations, and keep up with/pull for one another. Even taking out the benefit it could afford the Georgetown basketball program, Georgetown as a university with a once-elite basketball program could benefit as an institution by extending its connections with the DMV as a whole. I would love to see more community outreach by Georgetown. Even small things like providing free tickets to games/events for local children. Anything that could serve to make Georgetown a place that local kids, not just ballplayers, feel connected to and want to be a part of. I think the basketball team does a great job with many of the things they actively do in the community each year. I would love to see the University follow that lead. I realize that the team doesn't do those things without the University. I'm only saying that I feel like there are more ways that Georgetown could reach out and try to make local kids feel like staying home for college might not be such a bad idea. In any event, kudos to Chris and Austin for doing this and starting conversations like these that start with the team and the game but certainly aren't only about basketball. Nice job, gentlemen!
|
|
dense
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,995
|
Post by dense on Jun 27, 2020 6:50:35 GMT -5
Dawg Talk got a shout out from CBS Sports radio national using clips of their Durant interview.
|
|
LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
|
Post by LCPolo18 on Jun 27, 2020 13:09:46 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 27, 2020 14:30:55 GMT -5
Any coach who takes over for a coach who was fired faces the same thing, though. It's never an easy situation to be in because it's tough to win without the recruits and it's tough to recruit without winning. And yet, we know programs rise and fall all the time. Somehow, you have to create positive momentum--that's really the challenge. Usually coaches who lift programs up do it through some combination of winning with unheralded players (which helps boost your recruiting) or recruiting good players without a recent history of on-court success. You have to be able to find a way to do one or both. If you can't, you were the wrong hire. I agree with this. The only thing I would add is that when a new coach is hired, there is often a honeymoon period in which a coach can use their freshness as a coach to recruit better and build something. I think Ewing definitely benefited from this in getting Pickett as a top 100 recruit, along with the Akinjo/LeBlanc class. This often allows a new coach to punch above their weight in recruiting. If you can parlay that into success on the court, it builds on itself, and can lead to good things. The problem now is that the honeymoon period is done. Ewing is not going to benefit from being "new" since he's not new anymore, and has actual results for people to see. You're right, programs do rise and fall all the time. But, they rarely rise 3 years after a coach has poor results. Willard actually did it at Seton Hall, but he's a major exception (he actually was pretty bad for 5 years or so before turning it around with the Whitehead class). That's why I am concerned about the future of the program. I really hope Ewing has it in him to do this.
|
|
hoya73
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,222
|
Post by hoya73 on Jun 27, 2020 14:37:51 GMT -5
We'll see.Another comparison is that we're right where Nova was after Wright's first 3 years. No tournament and one sub-500 season among the first 3. I hope there's a signing of someone even better than Whitehead in our near future.
|
|
cas92
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 290
|
Post by cas92 on Jun 27, 2020 14:44:21 GMT -5
Any coach who takes over for a coach who was fired faces the same thing, though. It's never an easy situation to be in because it's tough to win without the recruits and it's tough to recruit without winning. And yet, we know programs rise and fall all the time. Somehow, you have to create positive momentum--that's really the challenge. Usually coaches who lift programs up do it through some combination of winning with unheralded players (which helps boost your recruiting) or recruiting good players without a recent history of on-court success. You have to be able to find a way to do one or both. If you can't, you were the wrong hire. I agree with this. The only thing I would add is that when a new coach is hired, there is often a honeymoon period in which a coach can use their freshness as a coach to recruit better and build something. I think Ewing definitely benefited from this in getting Pickett as a top 100 recruit, along with the Akinjo/LeBlanc class. This often allows a new coach to punch above their weight in recruiting. If you can parlay that into success on the court, it builds on itself, and can lead to good things. The problem now is that the honeymoon period is done. Ewing is not going to benefit from being "new" since he's not new anymore, and has actual results for people to see. You're right, programs do rise and fall all the time. But, they rarely rise 3 years after a coach has poor results. Willard actually did it at Seton Hall, but he's a major exception (he actually was pretty bad for 5 years or so before turning it around with the Whitehead class). That's why I am concerned about the future of the program. I really hope Ewing has it in him to do this. Krzyzewski's first three years @ Duke: 17-13 10-17 11-17 It's in the fourth season that he enjoyed a buoyantly successful year @ 24-10 (after having procured recruiting classes that would be the core of his first winning squad: Amaker, Alarie, Bilas, Dawkins). This isn't to suggest that Ewing will realize a similar narrative, but public accolades that have been showered on Krzyzewski over decades have skewed the perception of him as a coaching savant from the get.
|
|