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Post by HoyaRejuveNation85 on Jun 24, 2020 16:34:46 GMT -5
I listened to the Dawg Talk episodes with Pat Jr. and Jeff Green. Great stuff. Lots of content. Nice job by Chris Wright and Austin Freeman. All impressive young men who are proud of their Hoya pedigrees and invested in rebuilding the brand for recruiting purposes particularly in the DMV. I like that Pat Jr. has been employed by the university as some kind of alumni relations manager for the basketball alumni population. That apparently has been in place for many months (maybe last year?). In any event, it seems to have prompted guys like Chris and Austin to create this podcast on their own (probably Gene's and Trey Dickerson's too). The guys mentioned how cool it was to have them all connected -- Chris called it a brotherhood -- and Pat Jr. reinforced with all of them how important it is for all the bball alumni to stay invested in the program and school. They do know lots of difference makers in the DMV and it can pay dividends for the program if we can continue to get positive messages like these out into the bball community.
Looking forward to listening to the podcast with Kevin Durant, referenced above, which does not appear to be available on Apple podcasts yet. I may have to check out Instagram Live.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jun 24, 2020 17:11:38 GMT -5
I listened to the Dawg Talk episodes with Pat Jr. and Jeff Green. Great stuff. Lots of content. Nice job by Chris Wright and Austin Freeman. All impressive young men who are proud of their Hoya pedigrees and invested in rebuilding the brand for recruiting purposes particularly in the DMV. I like that Pat Jr. has been employed by the university as some kind of alumni relations manager for the basketball alumni population. That apparently has been in place for many months (maybe last year?). In any event, it seems to have prompted guys like Chris and Austin to create this podcast on their own (probably Gene's and Trey Dickerson's too). The guys mentioned how cool it was to have them all connected -- Chris called it a brotherhood -- and Pat Jr. reinforced with all of them how important it is for all the bball alumni to stay invested in the program and school. They do know lots of difference makers in the DMV and it can pay dividends for the program if we can continue to get positive messages like these out into the bball community. Looking forward to listening to the podcast with Kevin Durant, referenced above, which does not appear to be available on Apple podcasts yet. I may have to check out Instagram Live. Yeah the Durant discussion is only Instagram Live. I spoke with Patrick Ewing Jr during the DePaul/Marquette road trip in 2019 and he said that the role started at the beginning of that school year (August 2018).
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Jun 24, 2020 19:45:48 GMT -5
Jeff was going to be a top 10 pick. For future recruiting sake, III had to tell Jeff to go I think about basketball history a lot, but still wonder how JT III's term will be measured in the long run. For all the excitement of the early days, he left the program in a hole the University was really slow to realize and the costs of that inaction (financial and reputational) are still being felt today. That Georgetown went from #8 on the country in 2013 to being picked for last in the Big East is diminished by a lot of people, and it's significant. Remember all that success enjoyed by Villanova these last six years, playing in the Big East finals five straight years before big alumni crowds and standing on the floor four times as champion, not to mention two NCAA titles in three years and a pipeline to the NBA? That absolutely could have been Georgetown, but JT III seemed to disconnect, and our collective expectation now is left with Georgetown teams as one night reservations at MSG in March and getting an up and coming three star recruit as the next big thing. There's a series of articles at a UConn site telling fans "what they missed" since the Huskies left in 2013. Georgetown is around the corner. What will they say about Georgetown these last seven years? The great coaches inspire fierce loyalty by former players. When an ailing Dean Smith or Bob Knight were honored by their schools, the players were there because they wanted to be there, and you could see the pride in what they accomplished together. If John Thompson got a similar halftime ceremony (which he wouldn't do, of course), you'd see it as well. Would JT III get the same show of respect 10 or 20 years from now? I'd like to see if the podcast would interview some of the mid-2010 players (Starks, Lubick, Trawick, Campbell) and contrast how they saw the staff and the team dynamics versus those players who were there under better times. It is kinda unfair to compare him to Dean, JT2, Bob Knight, and Jay Wright. Those guys are legends,iconic figures in the game and Wright is a future Hall of Fame coach. Looking back, III was a good but not great coach. All the stars aligned for him with the talent he inherited and players he added his first few years at Georgetown. It was the perfect fit at the time. Unfortunately, he could never get back to that level. You mentioned the iconic coaches, and you mentioned UCONN. It is tough replacing legends, legacies. Ask UCLA, Indiana, UCONN. Shoot, ask us as a program. Wonder how Duke will fare once Coach K retires? Iconic coaches don't grow on trees either. Good coaches are hard to find too. That isn't to say we could not find a future good coach or iconic coach. III had a solid run. He hit his ceiling as a coach and was just never the same. Doesn't negate the fun times we had with him in charge or the contributions from the players that played for him.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jun 24, 2020 22:53:50 GMT -5
I have listened to most of the Ewing Jr. interview, and not yet on the Green interview. That said, I am looking forward to hearing Green, as my sense is that those complaining about Green and JT3 aren't giving it proper context. A few thoughts, though: - It would have been insane for Jeff Green to stay after 2007. From a selfish fan perspective, it would have been fantastic (as would Otto Porter staying for a junior year), but it would have made zero sense. As I said, I haven't listened to the interview yet, but I would truly be shocked if Green had absolutely no intent on going into the draft until JT3 forced him to do so. 20 year old kids with millions being dangled in their face don't typically ignore Well, get ready to be shocked. The quote is: “I know we just lost, but you’re not coming back next year. You’re putting your name in the draft. You’ve done everything you can do as an individual player. You don’t need to come back next year.” So yeah, Jeff wanted to come back, but it surely sounds like JT3 was looking out for Jeff’s best interests.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 24, 2020 23:04:55 GMT -5
I still haven't listened to the Green episode but was curious to look at some old news sources. First, it's abundantly clear that Green was getting draft buzz in the fall of 2006, particularly in December. Also, the quote from Green's father indicates it's clearly something, at least he, was thinking about well before the Final Four.
A February 25, 2007 article noted:
More from that article:
Immediately following the Final Four loss, in an April 1, 2007 article:
And more from immediately after the loss:
From an Associate Press article, April 11, 2007:
April 13, 2007:
Clearly, Green and Hibbert's consideration of the draft that year was not done haphazardly. And, even when they entered the draft, Green could have returned (as Hibbert did). He just did what was most beneficial for himself (and arguably Hibbert should have done the same).
From a pure fan selfish perspective, I wish Green did come back. But, he clearly needed to do what he did, and any coach who put him under pressure or who tried to convince him to come back would have been doing him a disservice.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jun 25, 2020 5:48:06 GMT -5
). From a pure fan selfish perspective, I wish Green did come back. But, he clearly needed to do what he did, and any coach who put him under pressure or who tried to convince him to come back would have been doing him a disservice. if you want to have a conversation about what was said on a podcast, maybe you could listen to the podcast.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 25, 2020 8:26:16 GMT -5
). From a pure fan selfish perspective, I wish Green did come back. But, he clearly needed to do what he did, and any coach who put him under pressure or who tried to convince him to come back would have been doing him a disservice. if you want to have a conversation about what was said on a podcast, maybe you could listen to the podcast. I had a few minutes, was curious what contemporaneous sources discussing the issue said back in 2007, and looked them up. Since I was looking at them anyway, I figured I'd provide them here in case others wanted that context, too. If you don't want it, feel free to ignore it.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 25, 2020 8:31:56 GMT -5
). From a pure fan selfish perspective, I wish Green did come back. But, he clearly needed to do what he did, and any coach who put him under pressure or who tried to convince him to come back would have been doing him a disservice. if you want to have a conversation about what was said on a podcast, maybe you could listen to the podcast. Well it’s not rocket science. It was in Jeff’s best interests, period. And still provided benefit to our program (recruiting).
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jun 25, 2020 8:47:25 GMT -5
if you want to have a conversation about what was said on a podcast, maybe you could listen to the podcast. I had a few minutes, was curious what contemporaneous sources discussing the issue said back in 2007, and looked them up. Since I was looking at them anyway, I figured I'd provide them here in case others wanted that context, too. If you don't want it, feel free to ignore it. So I want to be sure I understand....you think there are other sources as insightful as Jeff Green in a candid setting with regard to what Jeff Green was thinking the Spring he left the program? You wanna buy a bridge?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 25, 2020 8:59:08 GMT -5
I had a few minutes, was curious what contemporaneous sources discussing the issue said back in 2007, and looked them up. Since I was looking at them anyway, I figured I'd provide them here in case others wanted that context, too. If you don't want it, feel free to ignore it. So I want to be sure I understand....you think there are other sources as insightful as Jeff Green in a candid setting with regard to what Jeff Green was thinking the Spring he left the program? You wanna buy a bridge? I think that Jeff Green's quotes from 2007 are just as accurate, if not more accurate, than his recollection in 2020, thirteen years later, yes.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 25, 2020 9:54:22 GMT -5
To follow up, I listened to the Green interview and I think what he said in 2007 is consistent with what he said in the podcast - namely, he wanted to return for senior year. That's abundantly obvious. I am sure Green is telling the truth that JT3 pushed Green to go into the draft, as well, as any halfway decent coach would have done that. What the discussion did not cover was Green's opinion once he got into the process. The idea that Green was "forced" to do anything, though, seems like a stretch. As I said, Hibbert probably should have gone, and he came back. I am sure Green could have done the same if he really wanted to do so.
I am generally a fan of guys staying, but when you are a lotto pick, especially a top 10 pick like Green or Porter, I think there really is no choice but to go, as much as it is bad for the college team.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jun 25, 2020 10:10:02 GMT -5
I think it's great that Jeff Green wished he could have stayed for his senior year and that he loved Georgetown and would have enjoyed his senior year.
I question the idea that he had no agency in that decision.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jun 25, 2020 10:51:53 GMT -5
I think there is a monumental difference between having the basketball game and having the emotional and maturity readiness to be a player in the NBA. I don’t think coaches have as strong a perspective on that. If a player is not clear if he is ready, I think that has to be respected.
In Jeff’s case, it worked out. I’m sure there are plenty of others in which it didn’t.
If Jeff had returned and won a national championship, would JT3 still be the coach? Quite possibly.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jun 25, 2020 11:10:45 GMT -5
I am happy for Jeff, as he made it in the NBA and is still playing. He has had a strong pro career, which is easier said than done.
But man, if he had come back in 2008, the Hoyas would have been nasty. We would have been a # 1 seed and no chance we play a future hall of famer in the second round.
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dense
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Post by dense on Jun 25, 2020 11:25:21 GMT -5
I am happy for Jeff, as he made it in the NBA and is still playing. He has had a strong pro career, which is easier said than done. But man, if he had come back in 2008, the Hoyas would have been nasty. We would have been a # 1 seed and no chance we play a future hall of famer in the second round. I think you would have had a huge minutes problem though especially if Chris doesn't get hurt. That's what really killed that team before the tourney. Chris was playing and he had just comeback and trying to get him reintergrated was going on. if Chris played that whole season, JT3 would have had a tough decision cause Chris clearly is better than Jessie and would have shown by BE play. Whats great about the episodes so far is that all four of them loved the Princeton offense.
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Jun 25, 2020 12:06:12 GMT -5
I think there is a monumental difference between having the basketball game and having the emotional and maturity readiness to be a player in the NBA. I don’t think coaches have as strong a perspective on that. If a player is not clear if he is ready, I think that has to be respected. In Jeff’s case, it worked out. I’m sure there are plenty of others in which it didn’t. If Jeff had returned and won a national championship, would JT3 still be the coach? Quite possibly. I think you're leaping here too. Also, if you can get millions and safety for multiple years while teams watch you and help you become that player, that means a lot, too. Who's to say Jeff gets the emotional maturity and instead gets hurt and his draft stock falls to the second round, where he is not guaranteed a deal. Also, I think that the 2008 draft class is better. Maybe Jeff just falls regardless and loses out on potential money for himself, and gets put into a bad situation. There are also negatives to this situation. Sure, from a selfish fan perspective it would be great to win, but other coaches do the same thing. It's best for the players which end up being the best for the program. Seeing your guys succeed adds so much as a coach. Putting your players before your selfish needs are exactly what you do as a coach and what you preach to your players. Coach, doing the best for his player, was the correct move. This is not just a Georgetown thing. Other programs do the same thing and I'm not talking just Kentucky and Duke. Usually, when a coach of a non Kentucky/Duke forces a player to go pro it means they believe in that guy and think he's done all he can do to prove his worth to the NBA. It happened with us, it happened with Jonathan Isaac and it's worked out.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jun 25, 2020 13:01:36 GMT -5
I am happy for Jeff, as he made it in the NBA and is still playing. He has had a strong pro career, which is easier said than done. But man, if he had come back in 2008, the Hoyas would have been nasty. We would have been a # 1 seed and no chance we play a future hall of famer in the second round. I think you would have had a huge minutes problem though especially if Chris doesn't get hurt. That's what really killed that team before the tourney. Chris was playing and he had just comeback and trying to get him reintergrated was going on. if Chris played that whole season, JT3 would have had a tough decision cause Chris clearly is better than Jessie and would have shown by BE play. Whats great about the episodes so far is that all four of them loved the Princeton offense. In the Chris Wright/Austin Freeman locker room talk episode (pre Dawg Talk) they mentioned multiple times that they didn’t like the Princeton Offense because it didn’t necessarily fit the personnel that they had.
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cas92
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Post by cas92 on Jun 25, 2020 14:11:08 GMT -5
I think you would have had a huge minutes problem though especially if Chris doesn't get hurt. That's what really killed that team before the tourney. Chris was playing and he had just comeback and trying to get him reintergrated was going on. if Chris played that whole season, JT3 would have had a tough decision cause Chris clearly is better than Jessie and would have shown by BE play. Whats great about the episodes so far is that all four of them loved the Princeton offense. In the Chris Wright/Austin Freeman locker room talk episode (pre Dawg Talk) they mentioned multiple times that they didn’t like the Princeton Offense because it didn’t necessarily fit the personnel that they had. They've also expressed their opinion that it wasn't necessarily congruent w/ individual talents and by a certain date, adjustments and modifications would've behooved the team instead of dogmatically (maybe inflexibly?) subscribing to the Princeton tenets absolutely. As a corollary, both of them have conceded that a lot of local DMV talent may have spurned the Hilltop owing to Wright and Freeman's NBA trajectory or lack thereof. Green leaving when he did benefitted himself and the program's brand (@ the time). He likely couldn't have surpassed what he accomplished personally during that junior year campaign.
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Post by harwoodhoya on Jun 25, 2020 22:03:13 GMT -5
Put them on staff....
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jun 25, 2020 22:42:49 GMT -5
It was interesting when Chris shared last night that the impetus for Dawg Talk was Mac’s comments about the family as it relates to the program. Agree. It's not surprising that those that buy into the family and don't put themselves ahead of the family feel more included and familial. The ironic part is that Mac could learn a lot from CW.
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