Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jun 23, 2020 7:17:09 GMT -5
...and Noah went to GU’s basketball camp and wanted to be a Hoya. ☹️
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jun 23, 2020 9:27:47 GMT -5
I agree Green had to. He was a top 5 pick & earned his spot on the All Rookie Team. I more surprised looking back that Green went on to the association and Big Roy Hibbert didn't join him after clearly out playing the eventual number 1 pick in the draft Greg Oden in their Final 4 matchup. After Roy gave him what looked like an easy 19 & 10, I was certain Hibbert was gone as well and shocked when he opted to return. I remember reading early reports that he was a Top 5 pick lock. The next year he went 17th to Indiana. Hope Freeman & Wright get Roy Hibbert on soon. Would love to here what his conversation was with JT3 after that Final 4 Game? Hibbert did play well against Odgen, but that was part of the plan for OSU. Freeze Jeff out because they thought nobody could hurt them like Jeff and they were right. NBA scouts probably thought the same. Hibbert had room to improve, whereas Jeff maxed out. That was the difference between the two and why Hibbert returned. Hibbert would have been a late lottery pick had he left. He outplayed Oden, smoked Tyler hansborough, and ended up being a 2 time nba all-star.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jun 23, 2020 9:32:23 GMT -5
Whats more telling is Chris and Free talking about the year after, there were some players worried about their numbers more than the team winning. Chris said something to the effect " We were winning and no one was happy" and how that rolled over into the next year after they beat UConn. He didn't name names though. That was interesting. The difference being that the 2007 team was primarily comprised of 3 star guys who played as a unit whereas the next year you had several 4 and 5 star guys who only thought about what they needed to do make the jump to the nba...macklin, summers, freeman, wright, rivers, etc.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jun 23, 2020 11:18:32 GMT -5
Whats more telling is Chris and Free talking about the year after, there were some players worried about their numbers more than the team winning. Chris said something to the effect " We were winning and no one was happy" and how that rolled over into the next year after they beat UConn. He didn't name names though. That was interesting. The difference being that the 2007 team was primarily comprised of 3 star guys who played as a unit whereas the next year you had several 4 and 5 star guys who only thought about what they needed to do make the jump to the nba...macklin, summers, freeman, wright, rivers, etc. That is a bit why at this point I like this class. Sure, they all want to play in the NBA, but most have no business thinking they will need less than 4 years at GU. I’m hoping this helps with but-in and team orientation.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 23, 2020 13:39:29 GMT -5
I have listened to most of the Ewing Jr. interview, and not yet on the Green interview. That said, I am looking forward to hearing Green, as my sense is that those complaining about Green and JT3 aren't giving it proper context. A few thoughts, though:
- It would have been insane for Jeff Green to stay after 2007. From a selfish fan perspective, it would have been fantastic (as would Otto Porter staying for a junior year), but it would have made zero sense. As I said, I haven't listened to the interview yet, but I would truly be shocked if Green had absolutely no intent on going into the draft until JT3 forced him to do so. 20 year old kids with millions being dangled in their face don't typically ignore it.
- Purely from a basketball/money perspective, Roy Hibbert would have been better off leaving after junior year, as he likely would have gone higher in the draft than he ultimately did after the 2008 season. It was not known at the time, but Hibbert was drafted essentially in the last era where big men like him had a prominent role in the NBA. By not leaving after 2007, not only did he deprive himself of a higher draft pick, but also a full year of earnings that he ultimately lost as his skill declined and his type of big man became obsolete.
- The Ewing Jr. interview does an excellent job of showing that there is a lot more to players/decisions than is often assumed.
- Ewing Jr. said he was surprised Hibbert came back, and that while he appreciated that it would make the team better, he did see the downside of minutes disappearing, noting it clearly had a big impact on Macklin.
- Appreciation for the Princeton offense and JT3, as run by the 2007 team.
- Ewing Jr. did not feel that things clicked in 2008 as they had in 2007, which is interesting because that was still a really excellent team, and retained much of the roster. It also shows that balancing egos can be tough, but that winning masks a lot of that.
- I agree with Ewing Jr. that the 2009 team is probably the most disappointing team in the modern era. It had an enormous amount of talent.
- I thought Ewing Jr.'s discussion of being displaced by Freeman in the starting lineup was really insightful. He did a good job of describing the various emotions that he felt, etc. It's a testament to Ewing Jr. that he stuck with it and did not give up, but I can see where weaker-minded or more emotional players might have major problems with things like that.
- I thought it was interesting that Ewing Jr. said he thought that the Freeman/Wright group would have thrived with the latter-day JT3 offense, which was way more open and not really a true Princeton offense. I tend to agree, and wish we could have seen that.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Jun 23, 2020 14:35:41 GMT -5
I've been enjoying the podcast as well. CW could have a future in this.
JTIII was totally right to tell Jeff to go. He was BE POY and took his team to the Final 4. While he and all of us might dream of championships as a senior, the odds are high he wouldn't have been able to dramtically outplay that as a senior. Plus, there's a stigma around seniors in the draft. And he was the 5th overall pick. Some aspects of his rookie year may have been tough, but it was definitely the best move for his career.
The discussions about what Georgetown needs to do to get back on top have been interesting. Jeff talking about how he looked up to Carmelo and wanted to go to Cuse, or that Maryland passed on him for James Gist was interesting. Georgtown was not looked at as the place to be back then, but when that class started turning things around it didn't take long for the recruits to come. Everyone has emphasized a) recruiting locally and b) recruiting guys who will work and who aren't out for themselves. I hope this year's group starts to turn things back around too, it really feels like just one or two surprisingly good players could make a world of difference.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jun 23, 2020 20:10:54 GMT -5
I've been enjoying the podcast as well. CW could have a future in this. JTIII was totally right to tell Jeff to go. He was BE POY and took his team to the Final 4. While he and all of us might dream of championships as a senior, the odds are high he wouldn't have been able to dramtically outplay that as a senior. Plus, there's a stigma around seniors in the draft. And he was the 5th overall pick. Some aspects of his rookie year may have been tough, but it was definitely the best move for his career. The discussions about what Georgetown needs to do to get back on top have been interesting. Jeff talking about how he looked up to Carmelo and wanted to go to Cuse, or that Maryland passed on him for James Gist was interesting. Georgtown was not looked at as the place to be back then, but when that class started turning things around it didn't take long for the recruits to come. Everyone has emphasized a) recruiting locally and b) recruiting guys who will work and who aren't out for themselves. I hope this year's group starts to turn things back around too, it really feels like just one or two surprisingly good players could make a world of difference. Jeff Green's mom would never have let Jeff Green go to Syracuse.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Jun 23, 2020 21:05:49 GMT -5
Spoiler....... I can’t believe JT3 forced Jeff to leave after his junior year. I understand it but that is tough to take as a fan. Jeff was going to be a top 10 pick. For future recruiting sake, III had to tell Jeff to go
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 23, 2020 22:24:43 GMT -5
Jeff was going to be a top 10 pick. For future recruiting sake, III had to tell Jeff to go I think about basketball history a lot, but still wonder how JT III's term will be measured in the long run. For all the excitement of the early days, he left the program in a hole the University was really slow to realize and the costs of that inaction (financial and reputational) are still being felt today. That Georgetown went from #8 on the country in 2013 to being picked for last in the Big East is diminished by a lot of people, and it's significant. Remember all that success enjoyed by Villanova these last six years, playing in the Big East finals five straight years before big alumni crowds and standing on the floor four times as champion, not to mention two NCAA titles in three years and a pipeline to the NBA? That absolutely could have been Georgetown, but JT III seemed to disconnect, and our collective expectation now is left with Georgetown teams as one night reservations at MSG in March and getting an up and coming three star recruit as the next big thing. There's a series of articles at a UConn site telling fans "what they missed" since the Huskies left in 2013. Georgetown is around the corner. What will they say about Georgetown these last seven years? The great coaches inspire fierce loyalty by former players. When an ailing Dean Smith or Bob Knight were honored by their schools, the players were there because they wanted to be there, and you could see the pride in what they accomplished together. If John Thompson got a similar halftime ceremony (which he wouldn't do, of course), you'd see it as well. Would JT III get the same show of respect 10 or 20 years from now? I'd like to see if the podcast would interview some of the mid-2010 players (Starks, Lubick, Trawick, Campbell) and contrast how they saw the staff and the team dynamics versus those players who were there under better times.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jun 23, 2020 22:29:59 GMT -5
Wright and Freeman had a special Instagram Live episode of Dawg Talk tonight and their mystery guest was Kevin Durant. The below Tweet is part of a brief summary thread, and I’m also linking to the archived video on Instagram. www.instagram.com/tv/CBzOuaTglAO/?igshid=dfgn45j82f8i
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jun 23, 2020 23:34:15 GMT -5
Wright and Freeman had a special Instagram Live episode of Dawg Talk tonight and their mystery guest was Kevin Durant. The below Tweet is part of a brief summary thread, and I’m also linking to the archived video on Instagram. www.instagram.com/tv/CBzOuaTglAO/?igshid=dfgn45j82f8iPretty good reminder of the importance of building better relationships in the DMV. These guys all know each other. A lot of them stay in touch. Being able to be in that conversation for local kids makes for a sustainable pipeline and is GREAT for the larger community.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jun 23, 2020 23:59:01 GMT -5
Wright and Freeman had a special Instagram Live episode of Dawg Talk tonight and their mystery guest was Kevin Durant. The below Tweet is part of a brief summary thread, and I’m also linking to the archived video on Instagram. www.instagram.com/tv/CBzOuaTglAO/?igshid=dfgn45j82f8iPretty good reminder of the importance of building better relationships in the DMV. These guys all know each other. A lot of them stay in touch. Being able to be in that conversation for local kids makes for a sustainable pipeline and is GREAT for the larger community. On that note, they also spoke with Nolan Smith tonight, who is he current DOBO at Duke. www.instagram.com/tv/CBzJ2c9A7lQ/?igshid=xipwgq1xx0eaWhich also highlights that hiring recent alumni doesn’t require them to be recruiting assistants. Patrick Ewing Jr started as the assistant DOBO before elevating to DOBO, and Jon Wallace was a special assistant.
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aggypryd
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Post by aggypryd on Jun 24, 2020 4:23:08 GMT -5
Spoiler....... I can’t believe JT3 forced Jeff to leave after his junior year. I understand it but that is tough to take as a fan. He had to, just like Otto had to. Probably the same reason Dean Smith made Jordan and Worthy leave.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jun 24, 2020 5:38:48 GMT -5
I have listened to most of the Ewing Jr. interview, and not yet on the Green interview. That said, I am looking forward to hearing Green, as my sense is that those complaining about Green and JT3 aren't giving it proper context. A few thoughts, though: - It would have been insane for Jeff Green to stay after 2007. From a selfish fan perspective, it would have been fantastic (as would Otto Porter staying for a junior year), but it would have made zero sense. As I said, I haven't listened to the interview yet, but I would truly be shocked if Green had absolutely no intent on going into the draft until JT3 forced him to do so. 20 year old kids with millions being dangled in their face don't typically ignore Well, get ready to be shocked.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jun 24, 2020 9:17:59 GMT -5
It was interesting when Chris shared last night that the impetus for Dawg Talk was Mac’s comments about the family as it relates to the program.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jun 24, 2020 9:33:42 GMT -5
He had to, just like Otto had to. Probably the same reason Dean Smith made Jordan and Worthy leave. If I am not mistaken, worthy was a senior and graduated when he left. With this reasoning....Ewing should have been pushed out to. All of you citing that Jt3 had to push him out for recruiting purposes, a 2nd final four run the next year would have accomplished the same recruiting impact or more. Florida lotto picks Hartford, Noah, Brewer all stayed and it worked out for them. Jeff was dead set on staying with Roy....why not him as well? Nothing wrong with him staying and playing for a championship. I think people here may be underestimating the influence David Falk has on this program.
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Post by wponds on Jun 24, 2020 10:40:29 GMT -5
Need to keep these guys involved with the program as much as possible.
Austin is coaching with DeMatha now and would love if he spent another year there to get to know the players/making connections and then join our staff as DOBO or something along those lines. Our young alums like Austin, CW, and PE Jr can really play a big role in getting talented (and local) kids into the program even if they aren't officially assistant coaches right away
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TC
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Post by TC on Jun 24, 2020 10:50:02 GMT -5
All of you citing that Jt3 had to push him out for recruiting purposes, a 2nd final four run the next year would have accomplished the same recruiting impact or more. Florida lotto picks Hartford, Noah, Brewer all stayed and it worked out for them. Jeff was dead set on staying with Roy....why not him as wel 2007 Patrick Ewing on Jeff Green staying in the draft : "He keeps talking about he might go back [to college] and that is only going to drop his stock." You can sort the basketball-reference draft by WS and VORP : www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2007.htmlJeff was drafted 5th, was 15th in VORP, was 8th in WS, and 21st in WS/48. He made the right choice by leaving - if he had been drafted on how he actually performed he probably falls out of the lottery. The people around him had his best interest in mind and seem to have helped him against their own interests, rather than being colossal homers.
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Post by hibernatinghoyafan on Jun 24, 2020 12:31:44 GMT -5
We really need to get these guys involved in some sort of capacity. We have the budget to do so. Have them do scouting or something and just leverage their network in the DMV for recruiting purposes. Ewing can't be naive enough to not understand that things need to change in regards to the DMV recruiting approach. I'd love to see Orr moved into a special assistant role, get rid of Waheed, then snag a young and connected DMV guy, a defensive XOs guy, and add a couple young alums on staff in various positions.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jun 24, 2020 13:22:47 GMT -5
Our program has gotten stale. We need new blood.
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