swhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,137
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Post by swhoya on Jun 4, 2020 16:07:10 GMT -5
Every player looks good in their highlights, that's the whole point of them. Not true. If I had highlights, either hair or video, I'd look terrible in both.
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s4hoyas
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,475
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Post by s4hoyas on Jun 4, 2020 16:17:52 GMT -5
Not to nitpick, but again he was introduced as 6'7 in his state championship game...same height as Wes Unseld (RIP) and an inch or two taller than Charles Barkley, two of the best rebounders ever...now, I realize its a different time/era, but supposedly this kid can rebound at 220/225 lbs...but I think his versatility (avg 3.8 assts/gm) and shooting range make him a pretty well-rounded player...hopefully, with work ethic he will continue to mature, develop and get better over time...who was the guy who was of similar size a while back who played for us, didn't show much, then transferred and blew up?
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Hoyas4Ever
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
Posts: 5,448
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jun 4, 2020 16:21:43 GMT -5
When this kid gets the baby fat off he is gonna be a problem. Reminds me of Antione Walker. Not as good but a similar all around high IQ game. Walker is 6’9 and Holloway 6’6. I would love to have a legitimate PF, but we just landed another SF/wing. Hard to bang at 6’6 in the BE. Hope he surprises. First...Antoine Walker is 6'7" not 6'9". The BIG EAST is getting smaller. Most PF across the league don't exist in the banger, rebounding type any more. There all SF types that are skilled stretch the floor guys. Also they are mostly 6'6"- 6'8". PF Marcus Derickson avg. a double-double at 6'7". LeBlanc is only 6'7" and was progressing to be a double-double guy. Only Paul Reed & Mamukelashvili, & Tyrese Samuels were PF over 6'8" in the conference. Size doesn't matter nearly half as much as it use to. Marcellus Earlington at 6'6" cooked 7'0" Yurt7 in the opening game of the BIG EAST Tournament. Teams use their style of play to overcome any size advantage. Creighton won the Conference Championship with two 6'5" PF's and only one player over 6'7" and he only played 10 mpg. Coach Ewing and his staff have obviously subscribed to the positionless basketball approach by looking at this class. Outside of the PG Offices of Harris & Harris, the staff brought in multi positional players. The staff had ample opportunities to search out an old school banger/rebounder true PF and choose the more skilled SF type approach who all have Playmaking skills instead of the one dimensional type players of yesteryear.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jun 4, 2020 16:31:51 GMT -5
I will say it again—and oh, by the way, the last couple of years has borne me out on this—it is not about the ranking. Mosley went four years. We all wished we had him for one more year. Moseley learned, he grew. Plus he had the winning attitude. You will develop a winning tradition more from attrition, patience, perseverance, and doing all of the little things that teams need to do to win. Love to see the approach that the coaching staff seems to be adopting. We can contribute by being welcoming, supportive, and patient as the team grow into the power house we all want. Patience. I can give two hoot about what a player is/was ranked. Let me see him knock down shots, play defense, and buy into the team at all cost concept.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jun 4, 2020 16:52:11 GMT -5
Welcome to the fold, Collin. Let’s go to work!
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Hoyas4Ever
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
Posts: 5,448
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jun 4, 2020 17:15:54 GMT -5
In terms of Collin Holloway and his fit, I love the addition. I have never cared about rankings or stars that someone who never played basketball at any level wants to put next to some prospects name. I care about skill set, fit, work ethic & attitude. I've gone through every shred of videos I can find on the young man and came away impressed. He's got a lot of work to do on his conditioning & body but he got the tools to project well with time & hard work. He's also got a great team first mentality. Seems to really put the shine on his teammates in every interview I saw.
What I like about him is he does a lot of the little things well on both sides of the ball:
He's got a strong confident handle, seems to not only like contact but searches is it out and absorbs it well.
Looks comfortable shooting the ball both off the catch or of the one dribble or two pull up.
Will attack of the bounce with either hand comfortably.
Has demonstrated explosive athleticism in very short spurts but not consistently.
A very good team & man-2-man defender. Has demonstrated great defensive instincts over and over again. Great coverage and rotation in pnr on the ball and away from it.
I suspect he's hard worker or has learned how to be a hard worker. The reason I say that is if you look at his videos from 2018, there is no way that young man ever plays D1 or D2 basketball. The videos from 2020 show a completely a completely different player. His overall growth in his game in those two years, really one year has been tremendous.
Biggest weakness IMO seemed to be his conditioning. He's not in bad shape by no means. You can tell when he's tired on flim as his effort level wanes. Plays hard on defense when the balls in front of him but if the ball gets ahead of him on the break he'll coast back on defense. A habit he will have to get rid of as Coach Ewing won't tolerate not getting back on defense.
I also suspect that his conditioning is the reason why he's not a more consistent explosive athlete. He also looks like he's what they call in the South "Country Strong" and not weight room strong. I wonder how much plyometrics & basketball specific weight & speed training he's done. I suspect it hasn't been a lot based on the way he moves and runs on the court. The S&C Coaches at Georgetown are going to have fun with him because Holloway has a great base\frame to work with at 210-215 lbs as a freshman.
It's hard for me to compare Holloway to other players because he's got a well rounded skill set. I think he's more of a combo fwd at the next level right now. We'll get a idea after he goes through full conditioning program with S&C Coach(s). He could be a steal as a sophomore if he works on his body/conditioning and becomes the consistent explosive athlete that Darrel Owens believes him to be.
What's going to hurt the Hoyas 2020 class & grad transfers is if there is no in person summer session and workouts. Those are huge for freshman because they have no idea how hard they should be working. No baseline of what the staff needs from them to go by. The S&C Coaches have a harder time developing personal training plans for each player because they can't truly evaluate their limitations.
Like I said I like, no love the addition of Holloway and the entire 220 class. All are multi skilled versatile prospect with tremendous upside. Do they have weakness...of course, but I believe this class has the potential to be framework or foundation going forward. I think this team will share the ball. I think Coach Ewing will press a lot and play very fast with this 2020-2021 team. I suspect the team will play a very similar style to West Virginia who typically brings in recruiting classes similar to this Hoyas class and are annually a Top 25 program. System over "substance".
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,807
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Post by hoyazeke on Jun 4, 2020 19:35:27 GMT -5
Walker is 6’9 and Holloway 6’6. I would love to have a legitimate PF, but we just landed another SF/wing. Hard to bang at 6’6 in the BE. Hope he surprises. First...Antoine Walker is 6'7" not 6'9". The BIG EAST is getting smaller. Most PF across the league don't exist in the banger, rebounding type any more. There all SF types that are skilled stretch the floor guys. Also they are mostly 6'6"- 6'8". PF Marcus Derickson avg. a double-double at 6'7". LeBlanc is only 6'7" and was progressing to be a double-double guy. Only Paul Reed & Mamukelashvili, & Tyrese Samuels were PF over 6'8" in the conference. Size doesn't matter nearly half as much as it use to. Marcellus Earlington at 6'6" cooked 7'0" Yurt7 in the opening game of the BIG EAST Tournament. Teams use their style of play to overcome any size advantage. Creighton won the Conference Championship with two 6'5" PF's and only one player over 6'7" and he only played 10 mpg. Coach Ewing and his staff have obviously subscribed to the positionless basketball approach by looking at this class. Outside of the PG Offices of Harris & Harris, the staff brought in multi positional players. The staff had ample opportunities to search out an old school banger/rebounder true PF and choose the more skilled SF type approach who all have Playmaking skills instead of the one dimensional type players of yesteryear. Thanks H4E I didn't think Walker was 6'9" but I wasn't gonna Google it because it's doesn't help my point. I'm not saying he's Antoine Walker. My point is only I believe he can be really good on the Hilltop. But I knew once I made a comparison someone would lose their top...
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,641
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jun 4, 2020 19:51:35 GMT -5
Hoyas and URI listed Walker at 6’9, but if you measured him that’s cool. 😎
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dense
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,995
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Post by dense on Jun 4, 2020 19:55:06 GMT -5
Hoyas and URI listed Walker at 6’9, but if you measured him that’s cool. 😎 Different Walker, I think they are talking about Kentucky's Antione Walker, he was listed at 6'9 but he defintiely wasnt that tall. the Hoyas one is Antawn Walker
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,182
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Post by hoyarooter on Jun 4, 2020 20:16:56 GMT -5
In terms of Collin Holloway and his fit, I love the addition. I have never cared about rankings or stars that someone who never played basketball at any level wants to put next to some prospects name. I care about skill set, fit, work ethic & attitude. I've gone through every shred of videos I can find on the young man and came away impressed. He's got a lot of work to do on his conditioning & body but he got the tools to project well with time & hard work. He's also got a great team first mentality. Seems to really put the shine on his teammates in every interview I saw. What I like about him is he does a lot of the little things well on both sides of the ball: He's got a strong confident handle, seems to not only like contact but searches is it out and absorbs it well. Looks comfortable shooting the ball both off the catch or of the one dribble or two pull up. Will attack of the bounce with either hand comfortably. Has demonstrated explosive athleticism in very short spurts but not consistently. A very good team & man-2-man defender. Has demonstrated great defensive instincts over and over again. Great coverage and rotation in pnr on the ball and away from it. I suspect he's hard worker or has learned how to be a hard worker. The reason I say that is if you look at his videos from 2018, there is no way that young man ever plays D1 or D2 basketball. The videos from 2020 show a completely a completely different player. His overall growth in his game in those two years, really one year has been tremendous. Biggest weakness IMO seemed to be his conditioning. He's not in bad shape by no means. You can tell when he's tired on flim as his effort level wanes. Plays hard on defense when the balls in front of him but if the ball gets ahead of him on the break he'll coast back on defense. A habit he will have to get rid of as Coach Ewing won't tolerate not getting back on defense. I also suspect that his conditioning is the reason why he's not a more consistent explosive athlete. He also looks like he's what they call in the South "Country Strong" and not weight room strong. I wonder how much plyometrics & basketball specific weight & speed training he's done. I suspect it hasn't been a lot based on the way he moves and runs on the court. The S&C Coaches at Georgetown are going to have fun with him because Holloway has a great base\frame to work with at 210-215 lbs as a freshman. It's hard for me to compare Holloway to other players because he's got a well rounded skill set. I think he's more of a combo fwd at the next level right now. We'll get a idea after he goes through full conditioning program with S&C Coach(s). He could be a steal as a sophomore if he works on his body/conditioning and becomes the consistent athlete that Darrel Owens believes him to be. What's going to hurt the Hoyas 2020 class & grad transfers is if there is no in person summer session and workouts. Those are huge for freshman because they have no idea how hard they should be working. No baseline of what the staff needs from them to go by. The S&C Coaches have a harder time developing personal training plans for each player because they can't truly evaluate their limitations. Like I said I like, no love the addition of Holloway and the entire 220 class. All are multi skilled versatile prospect with tremendous upside. Do they have weakness...of course, but I believe this class has the potential to be framework or foundation going forward. I think this team will share the ball. I think Coach Ewing will press a lot and play very fast with this 2020-2021 team. I suspect the team will play a very similar style to West Virginia who typically brings in recruiting classes similar to this Hoyas class and are annually a Top 25 program. System over "substance". Thanks for this well reasoned post. I just hope you prove to be correct.
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Hoyas4Ever
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
Posts: 5,448
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jun 4, 2020 20:31:12 GMT -5
Hoyas and URI listed Walker at 6’9, but if you measured him that’s cool. 😎 Ridiculous.... Antwan Walker URi Roster
Please continue....don't let the facts get in the way of your argument.
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mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,567
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Post by mdtd on Jun 4, 2020 20:40:39 GMT -5
Hoyas and URI listed Walker at 6’9, but if you measured him that’s cool. 😎 Ridiculous.... Antwan Walker URi Roster
Please continue....don't let the facts get in the way of your argument. Alright, I'm going to clear this one up, as an attempt to limit confusion. Antwan Walker, former Hoya and current URI Ram, is listed at 6'7" as mentioned here. Former NBA player and the man who was referenced earlier, Antoine Walker, is listed at 6'9" according to Google/Wikipedia and his NBA Celtics History Page but, Basketball Reference, amongst other sources, lists him at 6'8".
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,641
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jun 4, 2020 21:07:51 GMT -5
Weird, I looked at both GU and URI school rosters that had him at 6’9. 🤔
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Hoyas4Ever
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
Posts: 5,448
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jun 4, 2020 21:12:00 GMT -5
Doesn't really matter what Walker is listed as anymore. He's no longer a Hoya. Hope he has a great season except vs BIG EAST teams. The focus should be fully on Collin Holloway...
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Post by phniousgren on Jun 4, 2020 22:40:38 GMT -5
Hoyas and URI listed Walker at 6’9, but if you measured him that’s cool. 😎 Ridiculous.... Antwan Walker URi Roster
Please continue....don't let the facts get in the way of your argument.
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Omega
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 556
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Post by Omega on Jun 4, 2020 22:51:27 GMT -5
I don't know why we are beating this thing to death. We know the staff has been grinding. If there was a better player who wanted to be a Hoya, the staff would have given them the scholarship.
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blazers32
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 194
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Post by blazers32 on Jun 4, 2020 22:55:32 GMT -5
Imo we didn't need a another guard we just took berger, which puzzled everybody. Could have used a forward. Someone who can bang in the post. Rebound and defend. Holloway is basically what Clark is.
Too many freshmen in this class. Step learning curve this year. No way we make the tournament.
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blazers32
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 194
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Post by blazers32 on Jun 4, 2020 23:00:15 GMT -5
I'll all the question again, I get that holloway may not be 3/4 star player. Buy didn't area state schools like LSU, Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi and Miss St offer him?
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Hoyas4Ever
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
Posts: 5,448
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jun 5, 2020 0:16:51 GMT -5
Imo we didn't need a another guard we just took berger, which puzzled everybody. Could have used a forward. Someone who can bang in the post. Rebound and defend. Holloway is basically what Clark is. Too many freshmen in this class. Step learning curve this year. No way we make the tournament. Holloway & Clark are two very different players physically. Holloway right now is a 3/4 and Clark is a 2/3. They could easily play together and complement each other well. Hoyas have at least two players who can bang in the post. Wahab & Ighoefe. I believe the staff purposefully designed it to be that way so they can space the floor. Bile will also be able to throw his body around inside. He's quietly a very good athlete and physical.
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jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,977
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Post by jwp91 on Jun 5, 2020 5:42:21 GMT -5
I'll all the question again, I get that holloway may not be 3/4 star player. Buy didn't area state schools like LSU, Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi and Miss St offer him? Posting negativity on every thread tonight?
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