TC
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Post by TC on Sept 2, 2020 10:34:50 GMT -5
Why none of these colleges are trying to pair cheap exurb real estate and ubiquitous remote learning in order to stagger main campus residency and double or triple enrollment is beyond me.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 2, 2020 12:31:14 GMT -5
There is absolutely a case to be made for a three-year degree...and a two-year degree... and a one-year degree... and no college degree at all. The point isn't that traditional four-year degrees are necessary - that's not why people pursue them. They pursue them because they are fun. It's like high school, only with independence and freedom and the most fun kinds of drugs (dopamine and adrenaline very much included). Sure it's expensive as hell, but people are pretty bad at long-term costs as it is. It's "fun" on the coasts where income, like the stock market, grow in inverse proportion to reality. It's not so fun to a growing segment of the population to which college in general, and Georgetown in specific, is simply not a viable or reasonable selection without aid which, eventually, will be unsustainable for Georgetown to offer. A three year degree doesn't solve this problem but recognizes twoe things: 1. Highly competitive students are coming from secondary school programs where college-level courses are already offered and/or provided; and 2. Transfer credit is already accepted within the Georgetown degree program structure. Proposed: Transition the A.B. degree (i.e., NOT the sciences, not SFS, MSB, or NHS) to a three year program. 1. Applicants will be expected to provide a minimum of 18 credit hours in approved college level work (but not to exceed 30) prior to matriculation. This could be done either by junior college, dual credit or extraordinary AP placement (5). 2. Year 1 (sophomore): 5 classes each semester, 30 credit hours. 3. Summer: Two courses required in each session, 12 hours; can be waived if more than 18 hours approved above. 4. Year 2 (junior): 5 classes each semester, 30 credit hours. 5. Summer: No residency requirement, available for study abroad or internships. 6. Year 3: 5 classes each semester, 30 credit hours. 7. Students may apply for a fourth year to pursue graduate or additional study but their degree obligations will have been met in year 3. Pros: 1. Students save the effective cost of an entire year of tuition, room and board ($75K now, $100K by 2026) 2. Georgetown saves the financial aid of that first year, less any accommodation for summer work. 3. The "average size per class" statistic goes down because there are fewer entry level classes needed for large groups. 4. Liberal arts faculty can be realigned to more upper level class work. 5. Reduces pressure on on-campus housing. 6. Students still get the "Georgetown experience" but are now ready to get into the workforce and/or graduate school earlier. Cons: 1. Fewer need for adjuncts and non-tenured faculty that simply teach introductory courses. 2. Less room and board revenue. 3. Potentially fewer core courses available for BS, BSFS, BSBA, and BSN students. This doesn't solve all issues and certainly there are more provocative options out there, from virtual class years to creating satellite campuses around DC or perhaps in other cities, innovations which Georgetown would take decades to enact. But innovation beyond intra-departmental faculty initiatives is worth some healthy discussion.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Sept 5, 2020 17:46:39 GMT -5
There is absolutely a case to be made for a three-year degree...and a two-year degree... and a one-year degree... and no college degree at all. The point isn't that traditional four-year degrees are necessary - that's not why people pursue them. They pursue them because they are fun. It's like high school, only with independence and freedom and the most fun kinds of drugs (dopamine and adrenaline very much included). Sure it's expensive as hell, but people are pretty bad at long-term costs as it is. It's "fun" on the coasts where income, like the stock market, grow in inverse proportion to reality. It's not so fun to a growing segment of the population to which college in general, and Georgetown in specific, is simply not a viable or reasonable selection without aid which, eventually, will be unsustainable for Georgetown to offer. I mean, that is essentially the financial model/tradeoff of elite universities, yes: you get enough students (chiefly from the coasts) for whom money is no object to subsidize those who get lots of aid. Those in between the two poles get squeezed, but as long as subsidized loans are freely available and the promise of landing a career in one of those coastal money escalator professions exists, demand will continue to far exceed supply. There are many schools for whom this model doesn't work, and we will see more small, expensive LACs fall by the wayside. But Georgetown is not those places. A three year degree doesn't solve this problem but recognizes twoe things: 1. Highly competitive students are coming from secondary school programs where college-level courses are already offered and/or provided; and 2. Transfer credit is already accepted within the Georgetown degree program structure. Proposed: Transition the A.B. degree (i.e., NOT the sciences, not SFS, MSB, or NHS) to a three year program. 1. Applicants will be expected to provide a minimum of 18 credit hours in approved college level work (but not to exceed 30) prior to matriculation. This could be done either by junior college, dual credit or extraordinary AP placement (5). 2. Year 1 (sophomore): 5 classes each semester, 30 credit hours. 3. Summer: Two courses required in each session, 12 hours; can be waived if more than 18 hours approved above. 4. Year 2 (junior): 5 classes each semester, 30 credit hours. 5. Summer: No residency requirement, available for study abroad or internships. 6. Year 3: 5 classes each semester, 30 credit hours. 7. Students may apply for a fourth year to pursue graduate or additional study but their degree obligations will have been met in year 3. Pros: 1. Students save the effective cost of an entire year of tuition, room and board ($75K now, $100K by 2026) 2. Georgetown saves the financial aid of that first year, less any accommodation for summer work. 3. The "average size per class" statistic goes down because there are fewer entry level classes needed for large groups. 4. Liberal arts faculty can be realigned to more upper level class work. 5. Reduces pressure on on-campus housing. 6. Students still get the "Georgetown experience" but are now ready to get into the workforce and/or graduate school earlier. Cons: 1. Fewer need for adjuncts and non-tenured faculty that simply teach introductory courses. 2. Less room and board revenue. 3. Potentially fewer core courses available for BS, BSFS, BSBA, and BSN students. This doesn't solve all issues and certainly there are more provocative options out there, from virtual class years to creating satellite campuses around DC or perhaps in other cities, innovations which Georgetown would take decades to enact. But innovation beyond intra-departmental faculty initiatives is worth some healthy discussion. Again, students don't want to "get into the workforce and/or graduate school earlier" - they want to continue enjoying the college experience that schools have so thoroughly invested in and marketed. That goes doubly true for a place like Georgetown, which proclaims Cura Personalis and insists that its philosophy toward students is one of formation, not transaction. But even outside the US News Top X, most college students like being in college and are willing to pay top dollar/take out beaucoup loans for the experience.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Sept 6, 2020 21:08:37 GMT -5
Also relevant to this immediate discussion:
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Sept 7, 2020 16:48:48 GMT -5
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Sept 7, 2020 17:05:54 GMT -5
Schools can’t do without revenues from football. A drug they are addicted to and now dependent on. The tail wags the dog. Educating kids is an afterthought.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Sept 9, 2020 20:04:08 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Sept 12, 2020 8:04:26 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Sept 12, 2020 8:39:21 GMT -5
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Sept 13, 2020 13:51:23 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Sept 13, 2020 16:42:45 GMT -5
I believe the 103 number runs since March including the summer and the vast majority are staff cases.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Sept 15, 2020 5:14:24 GMT -5
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Sept 15, 2020 17:03:59 GMT -5
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RusskyHoya
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In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Sept 15, 2020 20:08:04 GMT -5
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Sept 15, 2020 21:40:19 GMT -5
The 8 current cases on campus is concerning, especially given the low numbers of students actually on campus.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Sept 16, 2020 0:03:23 GMT -5
The 8 current cases on campus is concerning, especially given the low numbers of students actually on campus. Unfortunately, I have to echo Topher's comments below. My running & walking routes generally take me through Georgetown and Burleigh and while it's not Big State School bad, it's... not great.
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tgo
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Post by tgo on Sept 16, 2020 15:44:54 GMT -5
I saw a chart posted somewhere else a couple days ago (cant find it now but if anyone else knows where that was let me know) that showed large infection numbers at several schools including Illinois and they all had zero hospitalizations. If no one is getting very sick then why so much hand wringing?
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Sept 16, 2020 17:21:59 GMT -5
I saw a chart posted somewhere else a couple days ago (cant find it now but if anyone else knows where that was let me know) that showed large infection numbers at several schools including Illinois and they all had zero hospitalizations. If no one is getting very sick then why so much hand wringing? It was never about the college students getting sick. It's all about the community spread. They are spreading it to the more vulnerable members of their communities and putting many others at risk. Think about all of the staff at all these universities, some who are working long hours for minimum wage. Does their health not matter? Does the health of their families not matter? And, these kids don't stay on campus. They go to restaurants, shop at grocery stores, and so on and so forth. They are spreading it into the community and the community -- not the college kids -- will suffer as a result. THATS why this matters.
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tgo
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Post by tgo on Sept 16, 2020 20:45:13 GMT -5
I saw a chart posted somewhere else a couple days ago (cant find it now but if anyone else knows where that was let me know) that showed large infection numbers at several schools including Illinois and they all had zero hospitalizations. If no one is getting very sick then why so much hand wringing? It was never about the college students getting sick. It's all about the community spread. They are spreading it to the more vulnerable members of their communities and putting many others at risk. Think about all of the staff at all these universities, some who are working long hours for minimum wage. Does their health not matter? Does the health of their families not matter? And, these kids don't stay on campus. They go to restaurants, shop at grocery stores, and so on and so forth. They are spreading it into the community and the community -- not the college kids -- will suffer as a result. THATS why this matters. It is obvious to those who are at risk and/or elderly that they should stay away from many settings at this time, universities and places where youth are likely to be would be chief among them. College students don't interact with people twice their age or more and those at greater risk due to their health concerns can avoid the college and its students. That is a- infinitely easier for them to accomplish through their own actions than expecting others to change everything about how they live their life and b- a responsibility and burden that should be shouldered by that portion of the population. I agree that everyone, students included, should wear their masks, quarantine themselves when they test positive or feel sick and limit indoor gatherings as much as possible to limit the spread. maybe that is the point of this article and it is lost on me since the focus of it seemed to be how many students were infected. Regardless, if they all get each other sick and none of them get hospitalized then I am not concerned about it.
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Sept 16, 2020 21:39:48 GMT -5
It was never about the college students getting sick. It's all about the community spread. They are spreading it to the more vulnerable members of their communities and putting many others at risk. Think about all of the staff at all these universities, some who are working long hours for minimum wage. Does their health not matter? Does the health of their families not matter? And, these kids don't stay on campus. They go to restaurants, shop at grocery stores, and so on and so forth. They are spreading it into the community and the community -- not the college kids -- will suffer as a result. THATS why this matters. It is obvious to those who are at risk and/or elderly that they should stay away from many settings at this time, universities and places where youth are likely to be would be chief among them. College students don't interact with people twice their age or more and those at greater risk due to their health concerns can avoid the college and its students. That is a- infinitely easier for them to accomplish through their own actions than expecting others to change everything about how they live their life and b- a responsibility and burden that should be shouldered by that portion of the population. I agree that everyone, students included, should wear their masks, quarantine themselves when they test positive or feel sick and limit indoor gatherings as much as possible to limit the spread. maybe that is the point of this article and it is lost on me since the focus of it seemed to be how many students were infected. Regardless, if they all get each other sick and none of them get hospitalized then I am not concerned about it. I think this is a very narrow view of the world that assumes people have choices. Do the university janitors have a real choice to go to work when - if they don't - they will be homeless and their children will go hungry? What about dining center employees that serve the students food? And the countless other university staff employees that keep the universities up and running? The NYT has counted 60 deaths of college staff members THUS FAR: www.nytimes.com/2020/09/11/world/covid-19-coronavirus.html#link-734306aaAnd then what about the restaurant workers? Grocery store employees? I can go on and on, and the examples are endless. College students don't live in a bubble just filled with college students. They live in communities. And, college students have proven to everyone that they do not wear masks, they party, they socialize, and then they catch covid as a result. And then they spread it to their college communities, and the broader communities. And people die.
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