hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Jun 18, 2020 7:17:24 GMT -5
Option #2 seems the most likely and the one where the costs wouldn't absolutely skyrocket. It's also a proof of concept for reducing the number of undergraduates living on campus long term. Doesn't address the one-offs (off campus living) or the wild cards (hundreds simply decide to take the year off w/o a tuition check and GU goes into panic mode) but it's the most prudent. To that end, and not encouraging it, but...what's the downside in taking a so-called gap year? Nobody even thought of this in the 1980's. If you weren't in college, you had to get a job. People did take gap years in the 80s (and earlier). They were just jokingly referred to as "finishing school" and entailed taking a post-grad year at Choate, Emma Willard, or Avon Old Farms. PG Year - for the 18 year old in your life who you're afraid is too immature to be on their own and would get themselves killed or expelled by Thanksgiving. Not exactly commonplace among most demographics, but certainly more commonly represented among the social stratum to which Georgetown students tended to belong by that point. The same is true of gap years - it's not everyone who can afford a year's worth of unemployment as an adult, and certainly not under a Covid economy. As for panic setting in if hundreds of undergrads take a year off... keep in mind that undergrads are by far the most expensive cohort to service and also the one that is most heavily subsidized with school-provided financial aid. If all or most of those hypothetical students taking a year off was going to be paying full freight, that would be one thing. But it's just as likely that those most likely to step away would be those facing the steepest economic hurdles, while those for who money has rarely been an obstacle can just as soon rent a studio in Rosslyn and continue enjoying outdoor parties on rooftops and in Burleith alleys (given that outdoor transmission appears quite limited). When I was a kid, I was under the impression that it was common for people to take a year between high school and college to do something “grown up” - get a job or travel the world. I have no idea why I thought this since I’m pretty sure nobody in my extended family did this. There must have been something in the popular culture that gave me that idea but, by the time I was getting ready for school in the early ‘90s, the idea was gone. Looking back, I don’t think it would be a bad move at all. I think I would have done better in school if I had a year to get my together and learn to be more organized and take it more seriously. I know for sure that I did a lot better in grad school because the added maturity that came with age.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jun 18, 2020 7:40:56 GMT -5
Who can afford this? My family was solidly middle class but to spend a year doing xxx before college was not heard of in my social circle. Either you are off to college (and I lived at home for two years to save money and Georgetown lacked residential housing for DC area students), trade school, or the military. What socioeconomic class are we talking about??? Only the socioeconomic class referenced by RusskyHoya??
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jun 18, 2020 8:00:10 GMT -5
Gap years are an upper middle class luxury.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Jun 18, 2020 9:43:35 GMT -5
Having a son who will be attending Georgetown this Fall and for whom we seriously considered a gap year, I can speak to some of this.
Yes, taking a gap year is obviously something that is tied to financial position to a large degree. But, like anything else, there are multiple scenarios and not all involve being extremely well off. For example, you can have a kid who is simply not ready and needs to grow up, and can do service work for a year (e.g. work for Habitat for Humanity). On the other end of the spectrum are the kids who will travel internationally or do a PG year / attend the "finishing schools" that were mentioned above.
With a good chance that these kids' freshman year will be a boondoggle (i.e virtual learning and who knows what else), a gap year seems like a pretty good option. On the other hand, with so much uncertainty out there, the gap year options may be limited (programs cancelled, international travel not allowed, PG schools may even be doing virtual learning).
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jun 18, 2020 10:50:16 GMT -5
Having a son who will be attending Georgetown this Fall and for whom we seriously considered a gap year, I can speak to some of this. Yes, taking a gap year is obviously something that is tied to financial position to a large degree. But, like anything else, there are multiple scenarios and not all involve being extremely well off. For example, you can have a kid who is simply not ready and needs to grow up, and can do service work for a year (e.g. work for Habitat for Humanity). On the other end of the spectrum are the kids who will travel internationally or do a PG year / attend the "finishing schools" that were mentioned above. With a good chance that these kids' freshman year will be a boondoggle (i.e virtual learning and who knows what else), a gap year seems like a pretty good option. On the other hand, with so much uncertainty out there, the gap year options may be limited (programs cancelled, international travel not allowed, PG schools may even be doing virtual learning). Good point about the service programs - AmeriCorps and its various flavors like CityYear, which you see a lot in DC, come immediately to mind: www.nationalservice.gov/programs/americorps/americorps-faqsMy sense, from my interaction with a handful of FEMACorps 'kids' over the years, is that they are paid subsistence wages and live in housing situations that are of a par with off-campus college students - lots of people crammed together. But for some - for many, I hope - it's a valuable learning experience. I actually interviewed one FEMACorps member via Skype because he was deployed to Puerto Rico and working like 70 hour weeks. Super impressive, got a job at HQ after he completed the program, and I'm very happy for him. Not everyone is going to be up for that...intensive of an experience, though.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jun 19, 2020 18:04:13 GMT -5
Some odd hair-splitting on terminology here...
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jun 28, 2020 17:28:13 GMT -5
We've got the makings of a real hard-and-a-hard-place situation here, where any decisions is guaranteed to anger a significant proportion of stakeholders. A couple of perspectives that are in tension: 1. Students are mad about the lack of clarity and generally want to be back on campus. If their experience is partially or wholly virtual, they want a discount on tuition. 2. Faculty, many of whom are in or closer to the at-risk demographic, are much more hesitant about in-person instruction in the fall. At the same time, not only do many of them find remote instruction as it currently exists to be less effective, but it is also more work on their part, not less. They do not find the argument that tuition should be lower (which raises the possibility of their compensation going down or their workload going even further up due to administrative staffing cuts) to be persuasive. 3. Administrators are looking at revenue shortfalls, the potential for legal liability due to exposure, and a hundred other risks. All of these are compounded by the great uncertainty around what conditions will be like at any future point in time, given the erratic nature of both government (at all levels) and public responses. Patience is likely to be in short supply just when it is needed the most. I'm excerpting the following article at length because of its importance, and I can't tell if it's behind the paywall or not. Coronavirus limbo: College students are angry and anxious as they await news about the fall
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 28, 2020 18:54:52 GMT -5
No easy path.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jun 28, 2020 18:59:25 GMT -5
As the parent of a rising junior, I can say that I've heard opinions from my daughter that run the range of all of the students quoted. The process would be completely opaque if it were not for one of her friends who is involved in GUSA and has been privy to deliberations about what to do. The only thing Georgetown has indicated to students so far is that one of their 4 options (all undergrads back on campus) seems the least likely to happen. As an Infectious Disease physician, the option that has 1 student per dorm room seems naive. How do they propose to police that? You KNOW there will be 4+ students in a single dorm room multiple times weekly. That defeats the physical distancing goal right there.
I appreciate that they are trying to be deliberate and considered. However, here we sit on June 28 and we have no clarity. My daughter as a rising junior has a higher chance of being shut out of campus housing this year. Have any of the administration tried to find acceptable affordable housing proximate to campus with 6 weeks notice? I'd wager not in the last 2 decades.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 28, 2020 19:16:23 GMT -5
As the parent of a rising junior, I can say that I've heard opinions from my daughter that run the range of all of the students quoted. The process would be completely opaque if it were not for one of her friends who is involved in GUSA and has been privy to deliberations about what to do. The only thing Georgetown has indicated to students so far is that one of their 4 options (all undergrads back on campus) seems the least likely to happen. As an Infectious Disease physician, the option that has 1 student per dorm room seems naive. How do they propose to police that? You KNOW there will be 4+ students in a single dorm room multiple times weekly. That defeats the physical distancing goal right there. I appreciate that they are trying to be deliberate and considered. However, here we sit on June 28 and we have no clarity. My daughter as a rising junior has a higher chance of being shut out of campus housing this year. Have any of the administration tried to find acceptable affordable housing proximate to campus with 6 weeks notice? I'd wager not in the last 2 decades. No easy answers. Frosh dorms with shared bathrooms and showers? Harbin elevator rides? Etc... Until a vaccine is created, I don’t see how GU undergrad opens up and Fall sports are played like last year. As a parent, how do you feel about tuition if GU goes to a virtual-learning semester?
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jun 28, 2020 19:23:14 GMT -5
We already essentially had one. Our discount for that was a pro-rated refund of room and board.
Personally, I feel that a virtual-learning semester fails to deliver the full value charged by the school (and it's not just the in person teaching, it is all the other aspects of living on campus that go along with it). One can say that the Georgetown degree at the end is still worth the same amount. But is it really? If not, how much less should be charged? I have no off the cuff answer except to say the college tuition nowadays has hit a stratosphere where it is seriously overpriced.
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Post by Admin on Jun 28, 2020 19:31:28 GMT -5
We've got some smart people here, so... what would some of you do?
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jun 28, 2020 20:02:17 GMT -5
Make a decision soon. They have plenty of data with which to decide what they think is the best course. The longer this drags out, the more frustration, ill will and potential defections (students, faculty and staff) there will be.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jun 29, 2020 23:26:59 GMT -5
We've got some smart people here, so... what would some of you do? I feel like the one key thing I would need to know, but don't, to have any confidence in making a call is what the University's ability to generate liquidity looks like. Because my first preference would be to just pack it in for the Fall and probably the full academic year and go full virtual. The financial hit would be enormous, but given how the situation is evolving and the politicization of basic, commonsense public health measures, it appears to me to be the most prudent and ethical option. Edit to add: here are three Georgetown professors making this case:
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jun 30, 2020 5:53:36 GMT -5
I can’t even get around how students would eat their meals. The whole system of kids eating together in the dining halls wouldn’t work.
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Jun 30, 2020 9:40:08 GMT -5
I don't see how any university that is attempting to bring together students from around the country and around the world together is going to be able to make this work right now, no matter what the precautions.
If Georgetown does try to reopen, they are going to have to be wildly creative. Testing upon arrival, and random temperature checks. Classes every day of the week (even Sunday) to spread everything out. I would kick all grad students off the main campus and have all in person grad classes at our downtown spaces. Try to keep the undergrad students on campus as much as possible; maybe develop a system where students let the university know whenever they step outside of campus/their home. Prohibit students from taking internships or jobs off campus if they want to attend classes on campus (and offer LOAN FREE financial assistance to students to help them compensate for the lack of income). Work with alums to offer students virtual internships. Lock down all University buildings and require an ID to enter any door. Limit visitors to campus.
Surely this sounds crazy and not the Georgetown experience we all had, but if students want to study on campus they have to be willing to accept a lot of restrictions.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 30, 2020 15:18:36 GMT -5
Even a school with a $5.7 billion endowment can't resist (over)charging students for Zoom. From Dartmouth: Will tuition be reduced for students who decide not to be on campus?The provost has announced that there will be no reduction in tuition for remote learning. Full tuition will be charged for all enrolled students whether they are enrolled and residing on campus or taking courses remotely. news.dartmouth.edu/covid-19/academic-year-2020-21-return-campus-plan/frequently-asked-questions
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C86
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Post by C86 on Jun 30, 2020 17:13:54 GMT -5
Today would have been an excellent day for Georgetown to announce its plans. The new fiscal year starts tomorrow. There is a benefit to being able to say that the plans were announced in June rather than in July, the month before the fall semester starts. Plus, with the 4th coming up, Georgetown is losing valuable time that could be spent communicating with faculty, staff, students and families.
I have to believe the Administration has actually formulated its plan. I wonder if the holdup is getting it approved by higher powers like the board or the District government.
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Post by HoyaRejuveNation85 on Jul 1, 2020 18:40:06 GMT -5
We already essentially had one. Our discount for that was a pro-rated refund of room and board. Personally, I feel that a virtual-learning semester fails to deliver the full value charged by the school (and it's not just the in person teaching, it is all the other aspects of living on campus that go along with it). One can say that the Georgetown degree at the end is still worth the same amount. But is it really? If not, how much less should be charged? I have no off the cuff answer except to say the college tuition nowadays has hit a stratosphere where it is seriously overpriced. I agree with all you've said, Dan, and as a parent of a rising junior and sophomore, I too am very concerned about the loss of their expected college experience and the ability of the University to enforce a social distancing plan. I do believe, however, that I received the referenced plan with 4 options from some university account directly and before my kids told me. Seems like the plans need to be approved by DC government and that creates its own difficulties. That said, zooming or not, my kids want to get back to DC for the Fall semester. Tough situation for everyone, but I believe Jack DeGioia and his lieutenants understand the frustration and are working hard to find something that works. No solution will satisfy everyone.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jul 1, 2020 19:33:36 GMT -5
We are just a little more than a couple months away from the from the semester. I don’t see how you have kids on campus. What do you do if there’s a bad outcome, send kids home? You have kids coming from all the spiking states.
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