TC
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Post by TC on Jan 29, 2020 8:27:01 GMT -5
Omer Yurtseven put up a double double, only made 1 turnover, was double teamed constantly, and it seemed like he followed the gameplan. His shooting was off, but it's not like he let the guy he was guarding drain 7 threes. I don't see why he or Govan deserve this kind of thread.
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HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Jan 29, 2020 8:35:18 GMT -5
Omer Yurtseven put up a double double, only made 1 turnover, was double teamed constantly, and it seemed like he followed the gameplan. His shooting was off, but it's not like he let the guy he was guarding drain 7 threes. I don't see why he or Govan deserve this kind of thread. Because we always look to the next guy to be the perfect answer. Let's ignore Q getting pushed around on the rebounding last night where Butler got multiple second chances because he'll get better and stronger and we'll love him more than the last 2 (or 10 for that matter) starting centers that we've had. My crystal ball tells me that we will be praising Tim I around this time next year and bashing Q. It's Hoya Talk's backup QB syndrome?
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joey0403p
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Post by joey0403p on Jan 29, 2020 9:13:14 GMT -5
Omer Yurtseven put up a double double, only made 1 turnover, was double teamed constantly, and it seemed like he followed the gameplan. His shooting was off, but it's not like he let the guy he was guarding drain 7 threes. I don't see why he or Govan deserve this kind of thread. I don’t like the thread either - but yurts double double was a quiet one. A lot of his shots felt like they were tipped or blocked. He consistently fades away / doesn’t go up strong. He deserves his share of blame for yesterday - but whole team does I think. Not sure anyone played particularly well
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the_way
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The Illest
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Post by the_way on Jan 29, 2020 9:48:49 GMT -5
He is a Hoya and appreciate the efforts he gives to the team.
Critique is one thing, but there is no need to bash.
Yurt is the least of our problems right now. He is one of the major reasons we are competitive with this shorthanded roster.
Govan was a good player too.
It is one thing to bash players who left abruptly (this year). It is another thing to bash players who stuck it out, contributed significantly in dark times, and graduated from the program like Govan.
Yurt's "problem" is that he is not a young Ewing or young Mourning. This current roster needs that caliber of player to get wins instead of heartbreaking close losses. That is not Yurt's fault.
This team keeps hitting its ceiling and it is frustrating to watch in games such as last night. Frustrating, but understandable given the circumstances of this year.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 29, 2020 10:11:43 GMT -5
It's disappointing to see a thread like this, especially coming from someone who seemingly knows the players and coaches. While I think it's totally fair to criticize players (after all, we are here to do that, in large part), I think pitting two guys together like that is really just stirring the pot for no real benefit. The fact is, I think both Govan and Yurtseven were/are great members of our team. It's fashionable to bash both of them, because they may not live up to the expectations of some fans, but our team would have been way worse without Govan, and the same with Yurtseven this year.
One of the things we hear constantly, is what big man would not want to come to Georgetown to learn from Patrick Ewing? Lappas said something similar last night. People always complained that JT3 teams were soft. Well, where is the Ewing toughness? Isn't developing tough big men what Ewing is supposed to be about?
As an aside, I thought that Govan struggled last year when he was parked in the post. When he finally moved back out and took more threes he did better. I think confining Yurtseven to the baseline shots has hurt him. I am not saying he should be a high volume three point shooter, but basically entirely taking that out of his game has hurt him and the team.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jan 29, 2020 13:38:15 GMT -5
Jessie Govan was a good player for Gtown and a young man who represented himself well during his time @ Gtown... There's no need to continue bashing him in my view... True!! My bad.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jan 29, 2020 13:40:55 GMT -5
I should know better of posting minutes after a game we gave away. I changed the title of this thread. My bad.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Jan 29, 2020 14:26:59 GMT -5
It's understood that Yurt is who he is. He is not, and it seems will never be, a Ewing-type center. He does contribute in other ways, and strength/aggressiveness aside, he does have a fairly advanced offensive game.
What is frustrating--and I think legitimate to point out--is that Yurt chose to sit out a full season so that he would have access to Ewing's tutelage. Yet, the physical, aggressive playing style one would expect to have rubbed off on Yurt simply is not there. He is a 7 footer who is built fairly solidly, yet he seems at times allergic to contact. The question then is, what was the purpose of his transfer? Is the issue that Ewing did not properly guide him into becoming the more physical specimen that Yurt presumably hoped to become by the transfer? Or is trying to make Yurt play like 20 year old Pat the equivalent of fitting a square peg in a round hole?
In any event, I agree with those who have pointed out that Yurt is not what ails the team right now. The main issue is lack of depth, and recently it seems that as teams have adjusted to nullifying our strengths, a number of bad habits have resurfaced all around. But while Yurt is not the problem, he clearly is neither the savior.
One concern I do have with Yurt's apparent lack of development under Ewing's tutelage is the effect it may have on recruiting. On the other hand, if Q continues in his upward trajectory, that could balance out.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 29, 2020 16:25:03 GMT -5
It's understood that Yurt is who he is. He is not, and it seems will never be, a Ewing-type center. He does contribute in other ways, and strength/aggressiveness aside, he does have a fairly advanced offensive game. What is frustrating--and I think legitimate to point out--is that Yurt chose to sit out a full season so that he would have access to Ewing's tutelage. Yet, the physical, aggressive playing style one would expect to have rubbed off on Yurt simply is not there. He is a 7 footer who is built fairly solidly, yet he seems at times allergic to contact. The question then is, what was the purpose of his transfer? Is the issue that Ewing did not properly guide him into becoming the more physical specimen that Yurt presumably hoped to become by the transfer? Or is trying to make Yurt play like 20 year old Pat the equivalent of fitting a square peg in a round hole? In any event, I agree with those who have pointed out that Yurt is not what ails the team right now. The main issue is lack of depth, and recently it seems that as teams have adjusted to nullifying our strengths, a number of bad habits have resurfaced all around. But while Yurt is not the problem, he clearly is neither the savior. One concern I do have with Yurt's apparent lack of development under Ewing's tutelage is the effect it may have on recruiting. On the other hand, if Q continues in his upward trajectory, that could balance out. I believe what is looked at as a lack of aggression and physicality is him trying to avoid fouls and fouling out. Govan was doing the same thing last year when there was nobody behind him. We quickly forget how quickly Yurt7 was picking up fouls and fouling out in the first games this season when it was the Akinshow.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Jan 29, 2020 16:37:49 GMT -5
It's understood that Yurt is who he is. He is not, and it seems will never be, a Ewing-type center. He does contribute in other ways, and strength/aggressiveness aside, he does have a fairly advanced offensive game. What is frustrating--and I think legitimate to point out--is that Yurt chose to sit out a full season so that he would have access to Ewing's tutelage. Yet, the physical, aggressive playing style one would expect to have rubbed off on Yurt simply is not there. He is a 7 footer who is built fairly solidly, yet he seems at times allergic to contact. The question then is, what was the purpose of his transfer? Is the issue that Ewing did not properly guide him into becoming the more physical specimen that Yurt presumably hoped to become by the transfer? Or is trying to make Yurt play like 20 year old Pat the equivalent of fitting a square peg in a round hole? In any event, I agree with those who have pointed out that Yurt is not what ails the team right now. The main issue is lack of depth, and recently it seems that as teams have adjusted to nullifying our strengths, a number of bad habits have resurfaced all around. But while Yurt is not the problem, he clearly is neither the savior. One concern I do have with Yurt's apparent lack of development under Ewing's tutelage is the effect it may have on recruiting. On the other hand, if Q continues in his upward trajectory, that could balance out. I believe what is looked at as a lack of aggression and physicality is him trying to avoid fouls and fouling out. Govan was doing the same thing last year when there was nobody behind him. We quickly forget how quickly Yurt7 was picking up fouls and fouling out in the first games this season when it was the Akinshow. That might partly explain his reticence on defense. But how does that explain his consistently settling for fall away jump shots instead of finishing through contact?
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 29, 2020 20:15:22 GMT -5
I believe what is looked at as a lack of aggression and physicality is him trying to avoid fouls and fouling out. Govan was doing the same thing last year when there was nobody behind him. We quickly forget how quickly Yurt7 was picking up fouls and fouling out in the first games this season when it was the Akinshow. That might partly explain his reticence on defense. But how does that explain his consistently settling for fall away jump shots instead of finishing through contact? Fade Away, Turn Around, Fall Away aren't those Ewing's move?
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 29, 2020 20:43:31 GMT -5
Ewing didn’t fade away like Yurtseven and wasn’t soft.
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Jan 29, 2020 20:49:47 GMT -5
Kevin Willard has done a great job developing Romaro Gil.
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Eurostar
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Post by Eurostar on Jan 29, 2020 22:30:52 GMT -5
I think Yurtseven is talented, he just needs to keep working and listening to advice regarding things he needs to improve upon.
When he goes to the same move over and over again, he gets shut down. The Len Elmore analysis of him is good - he needs to mix and match. Face up, back to the basket, post then repost.
Squeeze the orange and hold on to the ball.
Have a killer mentality that when you are within 5 feet of the basket you are dunking on people at all cost.
Don't take any plays off on defense or on the boards. Need constant focus for greatness.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jan 30, 2020 0:53:45 GMT -5
What killed me is when Butler made their run, we repeatedly got the ball in deep post position to yurt and he got nothing. That was the game right there.
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Post by cgallstar02 on Jan 30, 2020 1:43:52 GMT -5
What killed me is when Butler made their run, we repeatedly got the ball in deep post position to yurt and he got nothing. That was the game right there. I agree. Not only that, when Ewing finally benched Yurt, it was almost like Mac said "Okay, my turn" and started going one on one every play forcing some really bad shots. It's almost like thats our offensive game plan. Force feed Yurt down low, if he struggles, give the ball to Mac and let him go one on one. Where is the ball movement? Where are the screens to free up guys on the perimeter for open 3's? We are rarely getting open looks from 3 anymore, Mac especially. And Yurt's shot to pass ratio from the post is probably 10 to 1.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 30, 2020 4:16:22 GMT -5
Agree, but we are not going to win when both Mac and Omer are off. Would have been a good night for Pickett to step up. I wish we got Blair more open looks in the game as it looked like he was feeling it. The game was there for the taking and it was a pivotal loss.
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kettlehill
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Post by kettlehill on Jan 30, 2020 8:48:32 GMT -5
What killed me is when Butler made their run, we repeatedly got the ball in deep post position to yurt and he got nothing. That was the game right there. I agree. Not only that, when Ewing finally benched Yurt, it was almost like Mac said "Okay, my turn" and started going one on one every play forcing some really bad shots. It's almost like thats our offensive game plan. Force feed Yurt down low, if he struggles, give the ball to Mac and let him go one on one. Where is the ball movement? Where are the screens to free up guys on the perimeter for open 3's? We are rarely getting open looks from 3 anymore, Mac especially. And Yurt's shot to pass ratio from the post is probably 10 to 1. Totally agree with both of you, and I blame PE for that. It was right after the half and it was clear that PE wanted to pound the ball down low. Every damn time.Yurt got pushed off of his sweet spots and started missing, yet they kept doing it. This team has only one route to success half court: ball movement. When they go away from that whether it is Yurt or Mac dominating the ball, no chance.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Jan 30, 2020 8:52:18 GMT -5
I think Yurtseven is talented, he just needs to keep working and listening to advice regarding things he needs to improve upon. When he goes to the same move over and over again, he gets shut down. The Len Elmore analysis of him is good - he needs to mix and match. Face up, back to the basket, post then repost. Squeeze the orange and hold on to the ball. Have a killer mentality that when you are within 5 feet of the basket you are dunking on people at all cost. Don't take any plays off on defense or on the boards. Need constant focus for greatness. Yurt is a very talented offensive player, and will likely play professionally somewhere next year. I think his biggest issue right now is that he is not used to/comfortable being the main focus of the offense for the Hoyas. There are times when they feed him the ball in the post 3 -4 possessions in a row and if he misses a shot or two, he seems to lose some confidence and play a little tentatively. I understand trying to take advantage of mismatches and getting him the ball when he has an advantage, but he does not seem to embrace the moment when it keeps coming to him every possession.
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Post by Lethal_Interjection on Jan 30, 2020 9:54:07 GMT -5
Agree, but we are not going to win when both Mac and Omer are off. Would have been a good night for Pickett to step up. I wish we got Blair more open looks in the game as it looked like he was feeling it. The game was there for the taking and it was a pivotal loss. This seems like the constant theme about JP. He has to be that 3rd option to relieve Yurt & Mac, when if one or both are struggling.
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