rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 12, 2021 22:36:07 GMT -5
He pretty much ran the point the last 2yrs. When Ish wasn't in the game Brad ran the point last year and the year before he was the point with John being hurt the majority of the year. This is the 1st year that he really hasn't had to run the point with Russ and Ish holding it down.... Shabbezz was the point guard when Ish and the year before it was Tomas Really? This is the hill you want to die on? That Beal isn’t a combo and can’t run the point? Boy do I wish I had that meme of that dude blinking to reconfirm what his eyes are seeing who looks like Dexter...
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Apr 13, 2021 4:30:24 GMT -5
He pretty much ran the point the last 2yrs. When Ish wasn't in the game Brad ran the point last year and the year before he was the point with John being hurt the majority of the year. This is the 1st year that he really hasn't had to run the point with Russ and Ish holding it down.... Shabbezz was the point guard when Ish and the year before it was Tomas If you are talking about Napier he was signed later in the season. Are you really trying to argue that Beal is incapable of running a team? He really didn't become a dominant 2 until last year. Even this year he from time to time runs the O....
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Post by bornhoya on Apr 13, 2021 4:59:43 GMT -5
Shabbezz was the point guard when Ish and the year before it was Tomas If you are talking about Napier he was signed later in the season. Are you really trying to argue that Beal is incapable of running a team? He really didn't become a dominant 2 until last year. Even this year he from time to time runs the O.... Yea cause if you have him run point your taking him away from he does best and that’s score, Spider Mitchell and Curry are better examples of combo guards who can create offense for their self or their teammates from either position but this a Beard discussion so I’m going to leave it alone.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 13, 2021 11:09:57 GMT -5
If you are talking about Napier he was signed later in the season. Are you really trying to argue that Beal is incapable of running a team? He really didn't become a dominant 2 until last year. Even this year he from time to time runs the O.... Yea cause if you have him run point your taking him away from he does best and that’s score, Spider Mitchell and Curry are better examples of combo guards who can create offense for their self or their teammates from either position but this a Beard discussion so I’m going to leave it alone. I mean, I’m not surprised in the least bit but you really can’t admit you were mistaken? This isn’t one of those “matter of perspective” situations.... But yeah better leave it alone or you’ll be backtracking till Christmas...
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 13, 2021 11:12:44 GMT -5
When does Beal ever run point The season John Wall first got injured and off/on ever since. He excelled in the PG role, both in keeping the bringing the ball up, keeping the ball and offense moving, and ran the pick and roll with great efficiency. I guess I was just paying attention... Just because he also plays SG doesn’t mean he can’t run the point full time. Don’t get it twisted, he’d still be a great NBA player if he never had to play a minute at SG. Which brings me back around to my point that a combo is about the tools and abilities a player has, and their ability to use them interchangeably, moreso than it is the actual position they play on any given day/sequence. Last 4 seasons Beal has had: 4.5 assists per game 5.5 assist 6.1 assists 4.8 assists If that’s not combo, then there is no such thing as a combo guard
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 13, 2021 11:27:40 GMT -5
The season John Wall first got injured and off/on ever since. He excelled in the PG role, both in keeping the bringing the ball up, keeping the ball and offense moving, and ran the pick and roll with great efficiency. I guess I was just paying attention... Just because he also plays SG doesn’t mean he can’t run the point full time. Don’t get it twisted, he’d still be a great NBA player if he never had to play a minute at SG. Which brings me back around to my point that a combo is about the tools and abilities a player has, and their ability to use them interchangeably, moreso than it is the actual position they play on any given day/sequence. Last 4 seasons Beal has had: 4.5 assists per game 5.5 assist 6.1 assists 4.8 assists If that’s not combo, then there is no such thing as a combo guard Exactly. And if you break down in season stats, you’ll see he’s had stretches where he averaged 8-9 assists for a month or two. He could average a double double at the point if he wanted...
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Apr 13, 2021 12:30:57 GMT -5
CG usually means, not a PG.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 13, 2021 12:54:25 GMT -5
CG usually means, not a PG. So called combo guards have been running teams with the ball mostly in their hands at all levels for an eternity. There is a history of this. They may not possess the mentality of a true point guard but so long as their handle is pg -worthy and they can make decent decisions in the halfcourt these guys won't hurt their teams.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 13, 2021 13:12:13 GMT -5
CG usually means, not a PG. Combo guard = combination guard = both PG and SG combined. Combo guards fall along the spectrum of balance with respect to their skills for each position. It’s by definition a tweener, and for some players that’s a good thing for their game and others not so much. No need to overcomplicate it. Combination guard means a guard who has both PG and SG attributes. Not all combo guards are created equal, as I alluded to in previous posts..
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Apr 14, 2021 12:01:12 GMT -5
CG usually means, not a PG. Combo guard = combination guard = both PG and SG combined. Combo guards fall along the spectrum of balance with respect to their skills for each position. It’s by definition a tweener, and for some players that’s a good thing for their game and others not so much. No need to overcomplicate it. Combination guard means a guard who has both PG and SG attributes. Not all combo guards are created equal, as I alluded to in previous posts.. Exactly. Size and shooting sometimes dictate if they get combo guard label. PG isn't a size position, but whether a player can see the floor, has high ball IQ, good handles to get / stay out of trouble, passes really well (assists, but often more importantly pass to assist). Often a PG that is taller than 6'3" that shoots well gets labelled a combo guard as they can also play shooting guard or wing roles where size helps. There is also the combo guard label used on smaller guards who don't have good point guard skills, but whose size limits their ability to guard and play (defend and guarded by) bigger players. The road for these thin skilled combo guards is much tougher. Beard is a really good PG who has size. Berger is tougher as he has PG skills, but his knock is quickness (defense and offensively creating his own shot or getting out of trouble). Great court vision and shooting, as well as size.
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Apr 14, 2021 13:16:53 GMT -5
Exactly. Size and shooting sometimes dictate if they get combo guard label. PG isn't a size position, but whether a player can see the floor, has high ball IQ, good handles to get / stay out of trouble, passes really well (assists, but often more importantly pass to assist). Often a PG that is taller than 6'3" that shoots well gets labelled a combo guard as they can also play shooting guard or wing roles where size helps. There is also the combo guard label used on smaller guards who don't have good point guard skills, but whose size limits their ability to guard and play (defend and guarded by) bigger players. The road for these thin skilled combo guards is much tougher. Beard is a really good PG who has size. Berger is tougher as he has PG skills, but his knock is quickness (defense and offensively creating his own shot or getting out of trouble). Great court vision and shooting, as well as size. I brought this up when Mac transferred to be a "PG"...I think the whole terminology of PG and SG isn't relevant in hoops at this point. You have a primary playmaker, who creates offense for themselves or others. Then you have secondary players who can either attack a close out or finish after the primary ballhandler makes a move (and in theory slide over when primary playmaker needs a breather), and then you have your finishers who are just rim runners or 3 point shooters. I'm sure there can be exceptions found to these roles but it feels largely right. John Hollinger coined the term "quarterback" and it feels right (link and excerpt from his article below). Debating whether Harden / Doncic are PG or SG is really irrelevant. For Gtown last year, the problem was we really didn't have one. Blair went through stretches where he was able to do this, and he was probably the closest. Dante would take over at times. But when we needed a bucket, we didn't always have a great answer or we'd try to force into Q which is difficult. Can Aminu/Dante/Carey be that type of player? Optimistic, we'll see next year. I wouldn't expect Beard to be able to do it day 1 but hopefully over time theathletic.com/1515619/2020/01/09/hollingers-nba-playmaker-tiers-ranking-the-leagues-top-quarterbacks/Quarterback.
It’s a not a real position in the NBA … yet. But perhaps we should start using the term and looking at the game this way. As our own Seth Partnow has noted, the league has become considerably more “heliocentric” in recent seasons, with a single player dominating a possession and then initiating offense for everyone else. This season 16 players have seen their Usage Rates soar into the 30s, including a few who aren’t exactly household names.
In the past we might have just called that person “point guard,” but it’s not an accurate term anymore. We’ve seen a lot more of the ballhandling and decision-making responsibility focused on players who are clearly forwards – whether it be the 6-7 Kawhi Leonard with the Clippers, the 6-7 Luka Doncic in Dallas, the 6-9 LeBron James for the the Lakers, or the 6-foot-a-gazillion Giannis Antetokounmpo for Milwaukee.
Despite several awesome bigs in this league (yes, still), they are largely absent from this particular discussion – the “quarterback” is nearly always a perimeter player, since hardly anybody posts up anymore and it’s so much harder to dictate the game from the block.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 14, 2021 13:51:06 GMT -5
Exactly. Size and shooting sometimes dictate if they get combo guard label. PG isn't a size position, but whether a player can see the floor, has high ball IQ, good handles to get / stay out of trouble, passes really well (assists, but often more importantly pass to assist). Often a PG that is taller than 6'3" that shoots well gets labelled a combo guard as they can also play shooting guard or wing roles where size helps. There is also the combo guard label used on smaller guards who don't have good point guard skills, but whose size limits their ability to guard and play (defend and guarded by) bigger players. The road for these thin skilled combo guards is much tougher. Beard is a really good PG who has size. Berger is tougher as he has PG skills, but his knock is quickness (defense and offensively creating his own shot or getting out of trouble). Great court vision and shooting, as well as size. I brought this up when Mac transferred to be a "PG"...I think the whole terminology of PG and SG isn't relevant in hoops at this point. You have a primary playmaker, who creates offense for themselves or others. Then you have secondary players who can either attack a close out or finish after the primary ballhandler makes a move (and in theory slide over when primary playmaker needs a breather), and then you have your finishers who are just rim runners or 3 point shooters. I'm sure there can be exceptions found to these roles but it feels largely right. John Hollinger coined the term "quarterback" and it feels right (link and excerpt from his article below). Debating whether Harden / Doncic are PG or SG is really irrelevant. For Gtown last year, the problem was we really didn't have one. Blair went through stretches where he was able to do this, and he was probably the closest. Dante would take over at times. But when we needed a bucket, we didn't always have a great answer or we'd try to force into Q which is difficult. Can Aminu/Dante/Carey be that type of player? Optimistic, we'll see next year. I wouldn't expect Beard to be able to do it day 1 but hopefully over time theathletic.com/1515619/2020/01/09/hollingers-nba-playmaker-tiers-ranking-the-leagues-top-quarterbacks/Quarterback.
It’s a not a real position in the NBA … yet. But perhaps we should start using the term and looking at the game this way. As our own Seth Partnow has noted, the league has become considerably more “heliocentric” in recent seasons, with a single player dominating a possession and then initiating offense for everyone else. This season 16 players have seen their Usage Rates soar into the 30s, including a few who aren’t exactly household names.
In the past we might have just called that person “point guard,” but it’s not an accurate term anymore. We’ve seen a lot more of the ballhandling and decision-making responsibility focused on players who are clearly forwards – whether it be the 6-7 Kawhi Leonard with the Clippers, the 6-7 Luka Doncic in Dallas, the 6-9 LeBron James for the the Lakers, or the 6-foot-a-gazillion Giannis Antetokounmpo for Milwaukee.
Despite several awesome bigs in this league (yes, still), they are largely absent from this particular discussion – the “quarterback” is nearly always a perimeter player, since hardly anybody posts up anymore and it’s so much harder to dictate the game from the block.Agreed with everything you said, but I’ll point out that Dante kinda proved he could fill that role, that’s the only reason he brought back hardware. I think it was the SHU game? he hit a number of timely buckets when the offense slowed down and we needed them. Small small, but the most important sample (winning time).
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Apr 14, 2021 13:57:59 GMT -5
Agreed with everything you said, but I’ll point out that Dante kinda proved he could fill that role, that’s the only reason he brought back hardware. I think it was the SHU game? he hit a number of timely buckets when the offense slowed down and we needed them. Small small, but the most important sample (winning time). Yup, explicitly said Dante did it at times, same page. Agree he has a chance to be this type of player in future, or at a minimum do it for parts of the game
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Apr 14, 2021 14:11:09 GMT -5
Exactly. Size and shooting sometimes dictate if they get combo guard label. PG isn't a size position, but whether a player can see the floor, has high ball IQ, good handles to get / stay out of trouble, passes really well (assists, but often more importantly pass to assist). Often a PG that is taller than 6'3" that shoots well gets labelled a combo guard as they can also play shooting guard or wing roles where size helps. There is also the combo guard label used on smaller guards who don't have good point guard skills, but whose size limits their ability to guard and play (defend and guarded by) bigger players. The road for these thin skilled combo guards is much tougher. Beard is a really good PG who has size. Berger is tougher as he has PG skills, but his knock is quickness (defense and offensively creating his own shot or getting out of trouble). Great court vision and shooting, as well as size. I brought this up when Mac transferred to be a "PG"...I think the whole terminology of PG and SG isn't relevant in hoops at this point. You have a primary playmaker, who creates offense for themselves or others. Then you have secondary players who can either attack a close out or finish after the primary ballhandler makes a move (and in theory slide over when primary playmaker needs a breather), and then you have your finishers who are just rim runners or 3 point shooters. I'm sure there can be exceptions found to these roles but it feels largely right. John Hollinger coined the term "quarterback" and it feels right (link and excerpt from his article below). Debating whether Harden / Doncic are PG or SG is really irrelevant. For Gtown last year, the problem was we really didn't have one. Blair went through stretches where he was able to do this, and he was probably the closest. Dante would take over at times. But when we needed a bucket, we didn't always have a great answer or we'd try to force into Q which is difficult. Can Aminu/Dante/Carey be that type of player? Optimistic, we'll see next year. I wouldn't expect Beard to be able to do it day 1 but hopefully over time theathletic.com/1515619/2020/01/09/hollingers-nba-playmaker-tiers-ranking-the-leagues-top-quarterbacks/Quarterback.
It’s a not a real position in the NBA … yet. But perhaps we should start using the term and looking at the game this way. As our own Seth Partnow has noted, the league has become considerably more “heliocentric” in recent seasons, with a single player dominating a possession and then initiating offense for everyone else. This season 16 players have seen their Usage Rates soar into the 30s, including a few who aren’t exactly household names.
In the past we might have just called that person “point guard,” but it’s not an accurate term anymore. We’ve seen a lot more of the ballhandling and decision-making responsibility focused on players who are clearly forwards – whether it be the 6-7 Kawhi Leonard with the Clippers, the 6-7 Luka Doncic in Dallas, the 6-9 LeBron James for the the Lakers, or the 6-foot-a-gazillion Giannis Antetokounmpo for Milwaukee.
Despite several awesome bigs in this league (yes, still), they are largely absent from this particular discussion – the “quarterback” is nearly always a perimeter player, since hardly anybody posts up anymore and it’s so much harder to dictate the game from the block.I personally don't agree with this, at least not in the college game. Hollingers label makes perfect sense in the pros, where the need to break a press is almost non existent, and very often 1 thru 5 has a credible enough handle to bring the ball up the court. In the college game, you NEED a point guard or at worst a wing/forward who has a ++ handle and as a decision maker to go far (very few of the latter exist). In the pros it's all about being able to initiate a set and make good decisions on the PnR or in isolation. And while certainly a good bit of that has come to the college game, there is still a much bigger need and usage of a press breaker and a motion offense. Take the Hoyas last season. Dante didn't play 35+ minutes a game because he was so spectacular during the conference season. He did so because Berger doesn't have the handle or quickness on either side of the ball to matchup with opposing PGs. And Blair, who GREATLY improved his handle over the years, was a shaky option because he was much better off the ball. Do you think a team like Seton Hall played Shavar Reynolds or Butler played Aaron Thompson because they enjoy having a player on the court that doesn't have to be guarded beyond 20 feet? Of course not, it's because they would be a turnover machine without them at PG. The NBA game is far different. There isn't a point guard in the league who you can leave unguarded at the 3 point line. Well, theres Lonzo and that's why he will likely be on his 3rd team by next season. Or MCW who never stuck anywhere for long. Simmons is the outlier, but he is a freak in every other aspect of the game. I think you would struggle to find many elite college teams without a true point guard or 2. Look at Nova from this past season. How different was that team without Gillespie? Even though JRE could easily be a point forward, and others could initiate offense and "quarterback" to use Hollingers term, they weren't nearly as effective. Teams sped them up effectively and their turnovers were up. To bring this full circle to the thread subject - Tyler reminds me a lot of Jason Clark. Long wingspan, defense ahead of his offense (even though he can score at the high school level), but he doesn't have a go to offensive shot or move, and his handle isn't at its ceiling yet. But is he ready to be a regular big east backup PG immediately? I have my doubts. And thus, why you're seeing us recruit transfer POINT GUARDS. Because right now...hes a combo guard. 😜
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dchoya72
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Post by dchoya72 on Apr 14, 2021 14:59:18 GMT -5
Was Fred Brown a point guard or combo guard?
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Apr 14, 2021 15:13:27 GMT -5
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Apr 14, 2021 15:51:35 GMT -5
Can the player help you win? If so, you can call them a combo or dorito or cheeto guard or whatever else floats your boat.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2021 16:24:19 GMT -5
Can the player help you win? If so, you can call them a combo or dorito or cheeto guard or whatever else floats your boat. LOL! I know that's right!
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justsaying
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Post by justsaying on Apr 14, 2021 17:41:16 GMT -5
Can the player help you win? If so, you can call them a combo or dorito or cheeto guard or whatever else floats your boat. LOL! I know that's right! Yes!
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Apr 14, 2021 22:52:07 GMT -5
Ashanti Cook was a classic combo if you ask me.
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