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Post by BeantownHoya on Jan 29, 2020 0:19:44 GMT -5
The guy just brought in 3 centers in the same recruiting class knowing that Yurt would be here and knowing that 2 of the 3 are complete projects.
At this point nothing surprises me with his in capability to build a roster correctly...
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Jan 29, 2020 10:34:53 GMT -5
The guy just brought in 3 centers in the same recruiting class knowing that Yurt would be here and knowing that 2 of the 3 are complete projects. At this point nothing surprises me with his in capability to build a roster correctly... There's a lot to be disgruntled about at the moment and I can understand general frustration with the program, but this particular criticism seems a bit overblown to me. The roster going into this season was fairly well balanced: 5 guards, 4 switchable forwards and 4 traditional bigs. I think everyone would agree that 3 centers in the same class isn't ideal, but you have to look at the sequence. It's pretty clear to me that they thought Wahab had potential to be an impact player and someone who was a clear notch above Iggy and Wilson, who were more "tools" guys who may or may not evolve into productive players over a longer time frame. From the early returns it looks like they were right on Wahab, IMHO. Passing on him just because we already had the other 2 in the fold wouldn't have been wise. You can argue that they shouldn't have taken Wilson if they thought Iggy was better, or that they should have held off on Iggy's offer/commitment if they were in good shape with Wilson, since those commitments came pretty close to one another. But with Yurt scheduled to graduate and no other centers on the roster, and neither prospect being anywhere near a sure thing, I think taking both was defensible. It's only when they added Wahab that it became very lopsided, but if he's going to be really good, so what? The way kids transfer these days, most "log jams" resolve themselves within a year or two. We've also lessened the impact a bit by redshirting Wilson, so it's now effectively 3 centers over 2 classes instead of one. Given that we needed to hit on 2 centers (a starter and a backup for when Yurt leaves), I don't object to taking 3 bites at the apple. I'd guess something similar applies for Beard/Harris. Post Akinjo, we know we need a point guard of the future. Hopefully we get a grad transfer to ease the transition, but given how inexact a science this stuff is, taking 2 cracks at it with 2 freshmen doesn't seem crazy. If we just brought in Harris and his game didn't translate to this level, we'd be in bad shape. When you bring in 2 prospects, the odds that at least one can get the job done is much higher. And if you think Beard has potential to be the better player, it'd be silly to turn him down just because we already have a PG commit. There are plenty of other scholarships available for other positions anyway.
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Jan 29, 2020 11:16:54 GMT -5
The guy just brought in 3 centers in the same recruiting class knowing that Yurt would be here and knowing that 2 of the 3 are complete projects. At this point nothing surprises me with his in capability to build a roster correctly... There's a lot to be disgruntled about at the moment and I can understand general frustration with the program, but this particular criticism seems a bit overblown to me. The roster going into this season was fairly well balanced: 5 guards, 4 switchable forwards and 4 traditional bigs. I think everyone would agree that 3 centers in the same class isn't ideal, but you have to look at the sequence. It's pretty clear to me that they thought Wahab had potential to be an impact player and someone who was a clear notch above Iggy and Wilson, who were more "tools" guys who may or may not evolve into productive players over a longer time frame. From the early returns it looks like they were right on Wahab, IMHO. Passing on him just because we already had the other 2 in the fold wouldn't have been wise. You can argue that they shouldn't have taken Wilson if they thought Iggy was better , or that they should have held off on Iggy's offer/commitment if they were in good shape with Wilson, since those commitments came pretty close to one another. But with Yurt scheduled to graduate and no other centers on the roster, and neither prospect being anywhere near a sure thing, I think taking both was defensible. It's only when they added Wahab that it became very lopsided, but if he's going to be really good, so what? The way kids transfer these days, most "log jams" resolve themselves within a year or two. We've also lessened the impact a bit by redshirting Wilson, so it's now effectively 3 centers over 2 classes instead of one. Given that we needed to hit on 2 centers (a starter and a backup for when Yurt leaves), I don't object to taking 3 bites at the apple. I'd guess something similar applies for Beard/Harris. Post Akinjo, we know we need a point guard of the future. Hopefully we get a grad transfer to ease the transition, but given how inexact a science this stuff is, taking 2 cracks at it with 2 freshmen doesn't seem crazy. If we just brought in Harris and his game didn't translate to this level, we'd be in bad shape. When you bring in 2 prospects, the odds that at least one can get the job done is much higher. And if you think Beard has potential to be the better player, it'd be silly to turn him down just because we already have a PG commit. There are plenty of other scholarships available for other positions anyway. This was actually my first thought when I heard the Beard news. I was expecting this thought to emerge yesterday but I didn't want to rain on the parade. I genuinely like Beard and I think he's an underrated prospect but I'm not sure I agree with having Beard and Harris. It just doesn't feel like there's a real cohesive recruiting plan. Offering Harris and taking him was almost a direct response to missing on Davis as opposed to being patient and seeing if something develops. I understand log jams work themselves out, but we're unlikely to get top 50 / immediate impact recruits, starting over with a new freshman is more development time and the best way to sync that development is balanced classes (like the Akinjo / Mac / LeBlanc class was planned to do) Ewing essentially tried to take a shortcut w Yurt7 / Allen / Alexander and using the transfer market. Sometimes it will work, I don't think it's consistent and something you can depend on year in year out. Unexpected player movement happens and the equation for leaving school has shifted vastly. I have no preconceived notions that Mac will be here four years. I don't think he's an NBA player. But athletes have a finite period to monetize their athleticism, he has a social media following and after three years he might to want to see if he can improve his game elsewhere (whether that's G League / Overseas etc). I have no inside info, you just need to try and prepare for any situation. So when Blair and if Mac leave in 2021 we'll have no shooting guards and we'll be chasing a grad transfer or hope a freshman can come in right away. Now there's still a bunch of spots so if you're arguing we should use one of those on a SG that's fine. But given most of us would also like to see a grad transfer PG come in to bridge, and we only have 2 wings on the roster, (for 2 starting spots) the spots start to disappear quickly.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 29, 2020 11:42:32 GMT -5
TAKE THE BEST PLAYERS YOU CAN GET!!! The positions will work themselves out.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Jan 29, 2020 11:53:15 GMT -5
Having two freshman PGs is not ideal, but Beard seems to be a real solid prospect. If we had limited spots or Harris signed on second I would have a very different point of view. I also do not like relying so heavily on the transfer market. For every Allen, you may end up with a Trey Dickerson (no offense to Trey who was a solid back-up and has become a vocal supporter of the program). I would rather have these 2 freshman for 4 years. From the little I have read, I like that Harris is considered a good shooter and Beard is more of a playmaker. They can compliment each other; it is not like we have a loaded backcourt where one of these young men cannot play off the ball.
Anyway, all focus now should be on wings, whether freshman, juco, transfer or grad transfer; we need to be all in on rebuilding that part of the roster.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 29, 2020 11:56:07 GMT -5
TAKE THE BEST PLAYERS YOU CAN GET!!! The positions will work themselves out. I think this is true but only to an extent. You need to recruit to some plan or system in college basketball. There is more margin for error if you're out there recruiting 5 star guys like Calipari because the odds those players are going to perform to their level (or at least a good level) or higher. Clearly, that's not where we are today, and I am not sure that would be a feasible plan for the program as well. Take a look at a guy like Jay Wright. He clearly recruits with a certain player type in place. Other coaches recruit to a system (like Mike Anderson). Frankly, I have no idea what we are recruiting to achieve. So yeah, I want the best recruits we can get, but there has to be some plan other than throwing them all together. We also need a defensive plan in recruiting too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2020 12:07:37 GMT -5
Why would we not take both (Beard and Harris)? With Mosley and Allen graduating who else can actually dribble the ball besides Mac? Why should we continue to be limited with ball handlers and limit our roster to one PG? Just wondering why people are upset with bringing in both...
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 29, 2020 12:13:50 GMT -5
Why would we not take both (Beard and Harris)? With Mosley and Allen graduating who else can actually dribble the ball besides Mac? Why should we continue to be limited with ball handlers and limit our roster to one PG? Just wondering why people are upset with this. I can't speak for anyone else, but I was hoping for a grad transfer PG to complement Harris. If there's a position where experience and stability matters more than raw talent, it's probably at PG. I could be totally off on talent evaluation here and underestimating Harris or Beard or both, but two freshmen PGs handling the ball is generally not a formula for immediate success. It seems like ceding contention for an NCAA bid next year to me.
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Jan 29, 2020 12:18:46 GMT -5
Why would we not take both (Beard and Harris)? With Mosley and Allen graduating who else can actually dribble the ball besides Mac? Why should we continue to be limited with ball handlers and limit our roster to one PG? Just wondering why people are upset with this. I can't speak for anyone else, but I was hoping for a grad transfer PG to complement Harris. If there's a position where experience and stability matters more than raw talent, it's probably at PG. I could be totally off on talent evaluation here and underestimating Harris or Beard or both, but two freshmen PGs handling the ball is generally not a formula for immediate success. It seems like ceding contention for an NCAA bid next year to me. Exactly. If you're ok with Beard, Harris, AND a grad transfer PG, I think that's fine but you're also limiting your scholarship options because we only have Sibley and Pickett to man the 3/4 spot. Probably need two guys there as well not to mention you will want to start developing a SG for future
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2020 12:27:47 GMT -5
Why would we not take both (Beard and Harris)? With Mosley and Allen graduating who else can actually dribble the ball besides Mac? Why should we continue to be limited with ball handlers and limit our roster to one PG? Just wondering why people are upset with this. I can't speak for anyone else, but I was hoping for a grad transfer PG to complement Harris. If there's a position where experience and stability matters more than raw talent, it's probably at PG. I could be totally off on talent evaluation here and underestimating Harris or Beard or both, but two freshmen PGs handling the ball is generally not a formula for immediate success. It seems like ceding contention for an NCAA bid next year to me. TC that would be ideal when bringing in a freshman PG; maybe the staff wasn’t getting warm responses to the few that are out there. Or staff decided they didn’t want to gamble, thus deciding that Beard is a really good talent and did not want to lose him (I believe he was looking to commit somewhere soon). How many spots do we have left for next year? If three, I could see us still making a move in that direction...
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justsaying
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Post by justsaying on Jan 29, 2020 12:53:57 GMT -5
Excited about this young man and for this young man. He is going to bring good things to the team.
Why a discussion about (overall) roster construction on this thread, well another high jacked thread.
So, as someone mentioned above before players not adhering to team rules and the following consequences there of the roster construction was extremely positive. Well we know things happen.
Some now having problems with roster construction; they should lend to us examples of their professional roster construction successes so it can be passed on to the staff.
Maybe here we can get back to pulling for this tough young competitor that we were able to add to our team.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jan 29, 2020 12:56:07 GMT -5
As of now, we are adding the 2 PGs mentioned and a 3/4 in Sibley. IF -- GIANT IF -- we can add Moncrief to the group, not only would we be really lucky, but we would have two frosh guards and 2 frosh 3/4s. Considering where we were a month ago, that would be great. In addition to those 4 freshmen, we still have 3 more schollies to go. Things would be looking really good in that case.
Everyone knows we would rather not have a class of 7 freshmen. Pat & co know that too. The fact they've been able to lock up 3 (and maybe 4) frosh first is great.
So who should we add for the last 3 schollies? First, let's recognize it's not like placing an order at McDonalds. "Let's see, we want a Big Mac, two fish sandwiches, a grilled chicken, 2 cokes, a chocolate shake, and 4 fries". Sure, everyone would like a high end, experienced grad transfer PG who is coming off a brilliant NCAA Tourney run. Failing that, how about the best JUCO PG in the country? Can anyone ensure that? Two kids like that might be #1 and #2 most desirable recruits out there. How likely is it that GU gets either one? Pat did the smart thing. Bring in 2 guards who, by all reports, have a good chance of succeeding at GU. Let's not forget, while we just lost 4 recruits Pat brought in, he has proven himself to have a really good eye for talent. Maybe he needs to re-calibrate his good character detector.
A roster is built to the needs of the team, but also built from best available who are willing to commit. I hope like heck he can sign Moncrief, then spend the spring finding 3 more kids to take the last three schollies. 2 or 3 Grad transfers could be great. But if he gets one JUCO, one Grad Transfer and another freshman - G, F or even C - in whom he sees something special (late bloomer, decommit or other)? Nothing wrong with that scenario either.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Jan 29, 2020 12:57:09 GMT -5
I can't speak for anyone else, but I was hoping for a grad transfer PG to complement Harris. If there's a position where experience and stability matters more than raw talent, it's probably at PG. I could be totally off on talent evaluation here and underestimating Harris or Beard or both, but two freshmen PGs handling the ball is generally not a formula for immediate success. It seems like ceding contention for an NCAA bid next year to me. TC that would be ideal when bringing in a freshman PG; maybe the staff wasn’t getting warm responses to the few that are out there. Or staff decided they didn’t want to gamble, thus deciding that Beard is a really good talent and did not want to lose him (I believe he was looking to commit somewhere soon). How many spots do we have left for next year? If three, I could see us still making a move in that direction... Four more spots. I do think one will be a grad transfer PG. There are a few names out there now that are intriguing, but most grad transfers are still playing for their current team right now and won't announce a transfer or start the process for another 2 months or so. If we're not in that market I think we're nuts. The odds that Harris OR Beard is good enough to start in the Big East next year are slim, at least if we want to be competitive in the league. You hope at least one of them is good enough for some bench minutes. The thing with Beard is that he's sort of a combo guard, so theoretically if they're both good, they could play together down the road. They're not truly redundant in that regard. I just think with 5 open scholarships, we had to take one or two of the best high school players we could get our hands on. We weren't going to get 5 grad transfers. They thought Beard was one of the best uncommitted seniors that we had a realistic shot at, and I think that's reasonable at this juncture. I think we'll probably land one other senior and hopefully start developing these young guys. Then the other 3 open spots will go to grad transfers who can help immediately, or maybe 1 or 2 sit out transfers.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jan 29, 2020 13:49:22 GMT -5
I can't speak for anyone else, but I was hoping for a grad transfer PG to complement Harris. If there's a position where experience and stability matters more than raw talent, it's probably at PG. I could be totally off on talent evaluation here and underestimating Harris or Beard or both, but two freshmen PGs handling the ball is generally not a formula for immediate success. It seems like ceding contention for an NCAA bid next year to me. Exactly. If you're ok with Beard, Harris, AND a grad transfer PG, I think that's fine but you're also limiting your scholarship options because we only have Sibley and Pickett to man the 3/4 spot. Probably need two guys there as well not to mention you will want to start developing a SG for future But with 4 scholarships left, there is room for a grad transfer PG and two more wings as well as an additional player. Since those 4 scholarships still need to be filled, it's difficult to judge the final roster at this point. TC, I agree that a grad transfer PG would be great so that Beard can split time next year as a freshman and take over the PG position as a Sophomore. And at that point Harris could take over the backup duty and also take Blair's shooter role off the bench. But without signing Beard, a grad transfer PG would just kick the can down the road and the Hoyas would be desperate for a starting PG in 2021 again. With Beard on board, the Hoyas hopefully have their 2021 starting PG on the roster, similar to Qudus getting experience this year in order to start next year. rhw485, as I said before, with four available scholarships, the Hoyas have some flexibility to bring in two more wings, another guard, and yet another player on top of that.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 29, 2020 14:22:23 GMT -5
TAKE THE BEST PLAYERS YOU CAN GET!!! The positions will work themselves out. I think this is true but only to an extent. You need to recruit to some plan or system in college basketball. There is more margin for error if you're out there recruiting 5 star guys like Calipari because the odds those players are going to perform to their level (or at least a good level) or higher. Clearly, that's not where we are today, and I am not sure that would be a feasible plan for the program as well. Take a look at a guy like Jay Wright. He clearly recruits with a certain player type in place. Other coaches recruit to a system (like Mike Anderson). Frankly, I have no idea what we are recruiting to achieve. So yeah, I want the best recruits we can get, but there has to be some plan other than throwing them all together. We also need a defensive plan in recruiting too. I think the plan is, get the best players we can sign up who generally are down to run an up-tempo, pro-style system, and then go from there. I would take another three centers in this class IF they are Big East players AND they are willing to compete/ sit for a while if necessary.
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Omega
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Post by Omega on Jan 29, 2020 14:47:33 GMT -5
TAKE THE BEST PLAYERS YOU CAN GET!!! The positions will work themselves out. I think this is true but only to an extent. You need to recruit to some plan or system in college basketball. There is more margin for error if you're out there recruiting 5 star guys like Calipari because the odds those players are going to perform to their level (or at least a good level) or higher. Clearly, that's not where we are today, and I am not sure that would be a feasible plan for the program as well. Take a look at a guy like Jay Wright. He clearly recruits with a certain player type in place. Other coaches recruit to a system (like Mike Anderson). Frankly, I have no idea what we are recruiting to achieve. So yeah, I want the best recruits we can get, but there has to be some plan other than throwing them all together. We also need a defensive plan in recruiting too. How do we know there is not a plan? Clearly there was a plan that got blown up by the transfers. Beard is said to be a defensive guard. All the recruits from last year's team that left were believed to be defensive players. Sometimes people just post to post.
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 29, 2020 14:50:09 GMT -5
I think this is true but only to an extent. You need to recruit to some plan or system in college basketball. There is more margin for error if you're out there recruiting 5 star guys like Calipari because the odds those players are going to perform to their level (or at least a good level) or higher. Clearly, that's not where we are today, and I am not sure that would be a feasible plan for the program as well. Take a look at a guy like Jay Wright. He clearly recruits with a certain player type in place. Other coaches recruit to a system (like Mike Anderson). Frankly, I have no idea what we are recruiting to achieve. So yeah, I want the best recruits we can get, but there has to be some plan other than throwing them all together. We also need a defensive plan in recruiting too. How do we know there is not a plan? Clearly there was a plan that got blown up by the transfers. Beard is said to be a defensive guard. All the recruits from last year's team that left were believed to be defensive players. Sometimes people just post to post. Amen. Particularly in this case!
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 29, 2020 15:34:46 GMT -5
How do we know there is not a plan? Clearly there was a plan that got blown up by the transfers. Beard is said to be a defensive guard. All the recruits from last year's team that left were believed to be defensive players. Sometimes people just post to post. When you figure out what the plan is, let me know. Because before the transfers our defense stunk, too. If there's a defensive plan, it's not working.
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Post by centercourt400s on Jan 29, 2020 17:18:52 GMT -5
How do we know there is not a plan? Clearly there was a plan that got blown up by the transfers. Beard is said to be a defensive guard. All the recruits from last year's team that left were believed to be defensive players. Sometimes people just post to post. When you figure out what the plan is, let me know. Because before the transfers our defense stunk, too. If there's a defensive plan, it's not working. The defense was a problem at times early in the season because the team was incorporating five new players and team chemistry (obviously in retrospect) sucked. Team defense now is a problem because of a limited roster that exposes weaknesses more than was planned for and because one of the best defenders (Leblanc) is gone. That's plain reality. And now I'm annoyed that I got sucked into further derailing Tyler's recruiting thread
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justsaying
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Post by justsaying on Jan 29, 2020 17:41:38 GMT -5
Beard and Stewart back in June
Not sure if this video has been previously posted
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