NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,924
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Post by NCHoya on Jan 23, 2020 13:40:47 GMT -5
I think giving Pat until the end of year 4 is fair, but I strongly suspect the administration will give him 5 years. By the end of next season, we will know what recruiting is looking like for year 5 and have the results of this season and next. I think that is more than enough to make a decision, but Ewing's Hoya legend status will give him cover for another season.
GU will likely have to give Ewing an extension soon to provide him a fair chance in recruiting. That is just the way it is in cbb. I firmly believe staff changes are 100% necessary this off-season. With so many connections throughout basketball, I am stumped why Ewing has "settled" on this staff. Three years is enough time to realize what is and is not working, and something is surely not working right now.
I just cannot see success if Ewing makes no changes and plods ahead offering random guys late and trying to scoop up transfers for the next 2 seasons. No doubt the 4 transfers left Ewing in a hole, but he dug the hole. Those were his guys that he decided he could coach and manage for 4 years. He needs to learn from his mistakes and bring in a better fit for his system otherwise these next 2.5 years are going to be difficult to withstand.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 23, 2020 13:46:30 GMT -5
I would debate and take issue with the notion that Ewing is a bad defensive coach. I am not sure if Ewing is a bad defensive coach, but we are certainly a bad defensive team. what is your position? 1. We are a bad defensive team despite good defensive coaching, because the talent isn't there----bad defensive players. 2. We are a good defensive team with good defensive coaching and any objective measurable analytics or statistics that suggest otherwise do not tell the story. 1) I take issue with the notion that stats can really tell a complete story regarding defense. Up-tempo systems like the one we try to employ lead to good looks for the other team. 2) I am not saying that Ewing is some type of defensive mastermind- his coach was, but he is not- but he is not incompetent by any means when it comes to defense. 3) The Monday-morning-quaterbacking and hand-wringing when it comes to our handling of screens is incomprehensible. We handle screens like many teams, and we handle them better than we did last year because we have more mobile centers. Screens are effective, and they lead to open shots when done right, regardless of the defense used. 4) Ewing's recruiting has been geared toward getting better offensive players who can function in an up-tempo system. He has not been recruiting Boubacar Aws as defensive-minded role players. His system will take several recruiting cycles to get a full set of those players in place. As Ewing has several cycles to recruit players for four years of high school, I am confident that we will get more complete players. Talk to me about this issue in 2024.
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rhw485
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 742
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Post by rhw485 on Jan 23, 2020 13:54:15 GMT -5
Agree with this. And the whole thing boils down to really whether that was necessary to say on January 17th, as opposed to after the season plays out. After the season, I think it will be more interesting to look at other major conference programs who replaced a coach and are in year 3. Off the top of my head that's NC State, LSU, Illinois, Oklahoma St etc. Texas Tech made finals in year 3 last year, Penny looks ahead of schedule in year 2 at Memphis, tbd on where you think UConn is but we're a year ahead of them. Then I think we can properly evaluate how Ewing is doing if we're not more optimistic about our future than those other programs who were in similar spots. They're not all perfect comparisons but it's the closest I can think of I think need to add Indiana and Georgia-- think Miller and Crean were both hired same year as Ewing. Had to look but yes to Indiana, Crean is only in year 2 but he was a rumored Hoya candidate so not crazy to check his progress. There could def be others to look at after the season just couldn't remember them all. When I googled "Archie Miller hire Indiana", google asked if I meant to say fire instead. So I'm sure things are going great for them on that front!
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,924
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Post by NCHoya on Jan 23, 2020 13:58:57 GMT -5
Agree with this. And the whole thing boils down to really whether that was necessary to say on January 17th, as opposed to after the season plays out. After the season, I think it will be more interesting to look at other major conference programs who replaced a coach and are in year 3. Off the top of my head that's NC State, LSU, Illinois, Oklahoma St etc. Texas Tech made finals in year 3 last year, Penny looks ahead of schedule in year 2 at Memphis, tbd on where you think UConn is but we're a year ahead of them. Then I think we can properly evaluate how Ewing is doing if we're not more optimistic about our future than those other programs who were in similar spots. They're not all perfect comparisons but it's the closest I can think of I think need to add Indiana and Georgia-- think Miller and Crean were both hired same year as Ewing. This is a very good point. All those other schools brought in credible college coaches to rebuild their programs. That was the smart, safe and easiest route to justify. Meanwhile, the Georgetown admin decided that bringing in a rookie head coach from the NBA with no college coaching experience was the right person to take on a program rebuild in a very competitive conference. When you put it into perspective, if this does not work out, all the blame should not go on Ewing. The blame should be shared with an admin that decided this was a realistic ask of Ewing. So I think it is fair to question whether Reed deserves to stay if Ewing does not succeed? Somehow I feel like the perception is the AD has no skin in this game, and that does not sit well with me.
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mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,567
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Post by mdtd on Jan 23, 2020 14:16:40 GMT -5
I am not sure if Ewing is a bad defensive coach, but we are certainly a bad defensive team. what is your position? 1. We are a bad defensive team despite good defensive coaching, because the talent isn't there----bad defensive players. 2. We are a good defensive team with good defensive coaching and any objective measurable analytics or statistics that suggest otherwise do not tell the story. 1) I take issue with the notion that stats can really tell a complete story regarding defense. Up-tempo systems like the one we try to employ lead to good looks for the other team. 2) I am not saying that Ewing is some type of defensive mastermind- his coach was, but he is not- but he is not incompetent by any means when it comes to defense. 3) The Monday-morning-quaterbacking and hand-wringing when it comes to our handling of screens is incomprehensible. We handle screens like many teams, and we handle them better than we did last year because we have more mobile centers. Screens are effective, and they lead to open shots when done right, regardless of the defense used. 4) Ewing's recruiting has been geared toward getting better offensive players who can function in an up-tempo system. He has not been recruiting Boubacar Aws as defensive-minded role players. His system will take several recruiting cycles to get a full set of those players in place. As Ewing has several cycles to recruit players for four years of high school, I am confident that we will get more complete players. Talk to me about this issue in 2024. 2024 seems to be a really long time to wait for a defensive upgrade. This team has the worst adjusted defensive efficiency in the conference. Stats can tell that story. Being uptempo should also result in more steals or the other team being forced into a bad shot. Instead teams hit easy, open looks. This team is 110th n adjusted defensive efficiency according to KenPom. That's right below Northern Kentucky who's going through a coaching change and right above St. Peter's who's 6-10. Now that's due to St. Peter's horrible offense, but that's beside the point. Just looking through (I may miss some), the only high major schools that have a worse defense include: Syracuse, Georgia, Iowa St, Northwestern, Ole Miss, LSU, Wake Forest, Cal, Nebraska, Oregon St, Utah, UCLA, Miami, and Vanderbilt. Of those teams, Oregon State and LSU are expected to make the tournament. The rest are either in down years, rebuilding or just under performing (Ole Miss). Also, the screen defense is garbage. There is no way to defend it. Most teams don't hard hedge. It isn't good. Especially on bigs who can't shoot with weak paint help. It's so stubborn and stupid that this team hard hedges. And better than last year doesn't mean it's a good thing. Also, is it really better than last year? Last year LeBlanc was there if anything got into the paint to contest a shot. He's not this year. And it seems the team gives up more threes off of pick and roll skip passes than anything else. Speaking of three point % defense, this team is 299th in the country, giving up 35.9% of three point field goals to opponents. The list of high major teams worse is: Cal, UCLA and Iowa State. That's it. Some teams that have better three point percentage defense than us include, but are definitely not limited to: SIU-Edwardsville, UMES, Mississippi Valley State, IUPUI, Elon, UNCW, Eastern Illinois and Incarnate Word. It's atrocious. The pattern with the three high major teams worse: they are a combined 26-28 overall on the season. They are legit bad teams. It's embarrassing. Part of the reason is the hard hedge, and not the pace. The fastest paced high major team in the country is Alabama. They are 61st in three point percentage defense. The second is St. John's who is 127th at 31.8%. And just looking at it from defense in general, Alabama is 54th in adjusted defensive efficiency while St. John's is 56th. Memphis, who is also top 15 in pace is 15th in adjusted defensive efficiency. It's not the pace. Our defense is just bad. The team needs to hire a defensive minded assistant who can work with Pat and solve some of our problems on that end. However, the start to this season: limit the hard hedge, especially on non shooting centers. Don't force a rotation into the equation.
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 23, 2020 14:32:28 GMT -5
It's really astonishing that a team coached by Patrick Ewing is this...horrible defensively.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Jan 23, 2020 15:16:17 GMT -5
Additionally for all these people talking about grad transfers and decommits for the recruiting class, I think it's important to remember that Georgetown will likely be lower on the pecking order than many programs when the grad transfers and decommits consider their options. Each spring, scholarships open up at places like Duke, Kentucky, etc. when underclassmen go pro early. Those are the programs that typically get the pick of the litter for grad transfers and decommits. As such, Georgtown needs to lock up recruits right now, before the better programs have openings. If you're Seth Towns from Harvard, are you really very likely to choose Georgetown over hometown Ohio State or interested top programs like Kentucky? Particularly going into Ewing's fourth year when from any objective measure he's likely to be on the hot seat? If you're only at Georgetown in 2020 because you are a one-year grad transfer why do you care whether or not Patrick Ewing might be out in 2021? He's going to be here next year. Grad transfers are our best shot at some form of success next year, and the selling point is that you're getting a better graduate degree than Ohio State or Kentucky and you're getting all the playing time you want. I think we need to think about low major grad transfers rather than Seth Towns though. Also, if the Hoya piece had been published today rather than last week, no one would have said a word about it.
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hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Suspended
Posts: 4,719
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Post by hoyainla on Jan 23, 2020 22:58:32 GMT -5
Agree with this. And the whole thing boils down to really whether that was necessary to say on January 17th, as opposed to after the season plays out. After the season, I think it will be more interesting to look at other major conference programs who replaced a coach and are in year 3. Off the top of my head that's NC State, LSU, Illinois, Oklahoma St etc. Texas Tech made finals in year 3 last year, Penny looks ahead of schedule in year 2 at Memphis, tbd on where you think UConn is but we're a year ahead of them. Then I think we can properly evaluate how Ewing is doing if we're not more optimistic about our future than those other programs who were in similar spots. They're not all perfect comparisons but it's the closest I can think of I think need to add Indiana and Georgia-- think Miller and Crean were both hired same year as Ewing. I think Indiana and NC State are good comparisons but Pat better not.
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s4hoyas
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,475
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Post by s4hoyas on Jan 23, 2020 23:14:36 GMT -5
Duke and Kentucky already have 4-6 high level recruits coming in next year, as does UNC, so I don't think they're real comp so much for the transfers...I think Georgetown's got a ton to sell prospects...just gotta get 3 or 4 meaningful believers and we're on our way...it ain't rocket science...
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 24, 2020 0:13:18 GMT -5
just gotta get 3 or 4 meaningful believers and we're on our way...it ain't rocket science... See the bolded part. Therein lies the problem. That's a tall task for any coach.
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,769
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 24, 2020 12:28:57 GMT -5
Duke and Kentucky already have 4-6 high level recruits coming in next year, as does UNC, so I don't think they're real comp so much for the transfers...I think Georgetown's got a ton to sell prospects...just gotta get 3 or 4 meaningful believers and we're on our way...it ain't rocket science... Just curious...let's take academics out of the picture (largely because I don't believe that academics mean as much to student/athlete recruits as it did before the days of the one-and-dones). When you say Georgetown has a "ton" to sell to recruits, what do you mean? It's not like we have a recent history of sustained success in the Big East.
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CTHoya08
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Bring back Izzo!
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Post by CTHoya08 on Jan 25, 2020 21:08:27 GMT -5
Duke and Kentucky already have 4-6 high level recruits coming in next year, as does UNC, so I don't think they're real comp so much for the transfers...I think Georgetown's got a ton to sell prospects...just gotta get 3 or 4 meaningful believers and we're on our way...it ain't rocket science... Just curious...let's take academics out of the picture (largely because I don't believe that academics mean as much to student/athlete recruits as it did before the days of the one-and-dones). When you say Georgetown has a "ton" to sell to recruits, what do you mean? It's not like we have a recent history of sustained success in the Big East. Playing time. Lots and lots of playing time.
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