|
Post by iheartdurenbros on Jan 19, 2020 10:04:41 GMT -5
Good discussion on the hard hedge here.
I thought it was a well-played game by both teams. It was definitely fun to watch.
I agree the 5 minute stretch where Amin went off was costly. Left the Hoyas facing an uphill climb all game.
Big hat tip to Yurtseven who played a good game. Remember the hand-wringing that John would pose a bad match up? Well he had one of the worst games I can remember against the Hoyas.
My feelings are mixed. I really credit them for fighting. Let’s face it — there have been teams in recent past that would have relented, but these guys fight. But I do feel Hoyas were out-hustled. The rebounding was just so frustrating and you can’t give BE teams that many second chances.. Typically I don’t get upset about officiating, but yesterday the refs helped Marquette draw fouls. (One drawn each on Mosely and Allen come to mind). Yet the Hoyas have to get back to making FTs consistently. So overall it does feel like an opportunity squandered.
All things considered, I feel encouraged that our guys just need to be a bit better, and that is achievable. (Practice free throws!) But the thinness hurts a lot. We are dependent upon improvement from only seven guys.
The only thing I do know is that this year I have shifted from rooting just for the program and my favorite players to rooting for THIS group of guys. It’s been several years since I’ve liked the team as much as this.
|
|
calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,362
|
Post by calhoya on Jan 19, 2020 10:16:41 GMT -5
The missed FTs throughout the game were heartbreaking. I watched the game here and there on my phone while I was watching the Caps game live in Long Island so can't really say much more. Hard to win when Howard has 42pts no matter how well you play. We have the capability to win a few on the road- esp against SJU and Xavier and maybe DePaul. Keep working at it. No legs on the missed FTs. Tired team with some players still recovering from illness. You could see from the outset that McClung still looked like he was under the weather. In these games it comes down to one simple fact--no bench, no chance.
|
|
Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
|
Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 19, 2020 10:37:41 GMT -5
Yurtseven and McClung are the only two guys that you can isolate. We don’t have a third player who can take his man one-in-one. It’s quite limiting to the offense when either are on the bench. It looks like Pat wants Pickett to be a third option, but he’s not there yet.
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,967
|
Post by EtomicB on Jan 19, 2020 10:50:18 GMT -5
Yurtseven and McClung are the only two guys that you can isolate. We don’t have a third player who can take his man one-in-one. It’s quite limiting to the offense when either are on the bench. It looks like Pat wants Pickett to be a third option, but he’s not there yet. The team just gave up 84 points, this loss has nothing to do with Pickett not being a 3rd option...
|
|
vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,329
|
Post by vv83 on Jan 19, 2020 11:14:23 GMT -5
Yurtseven and McClung are the only two guys that you can isolate. We don’t have a third player who can take his man one-in-one. It’s quite limiting to the offense when either are on the bench. It looks like Pat wants Pickett to be a third option, but he’s not there yet. Ewing also regularly pulls both Yurt and McCling at the same time midway through the first half. they can't both be on the bench at the same time, absent serious foul trouble. That leaves us with zero offensive creators to pressure the D. Usually Allen tries to create by penetrate/kick stuff, but his effectiveness at this is limited when he doesn't have other playmakers on the floor to draw defensive attention.
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 19, 2020 11:16:42 GMT -5
The missed FTs throughout the game were heartbreaking. I watched the game here and there on my phone while I was watching the Caps game live in Long Island so can't really say much more. Hard to win when Howard has 42pts no matter how well you play. We have the capability to win a few on the road- esp against SJU and Xavier and maybe DePaul. Keep working at it. No legs on the missed FTs. Tired team with some players still recovering from illness. You could see from the outset that McClung still looked like he was under the weather. In these games it comes down to one simple fact--no bench, no chance. I think Terrell looked a little slow as well. I know he spent a lot of time chasing Howard through picks which didn't help, but he seemed to lack his usual quickness getting into the lane and creating on offense. Hopefully a few more recovery days will help both him and Mac.
|
|
Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
|
Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 19, 2020 11:18:00 GMT -5
Yurtseven and McClung are the only two guys that you can isolate. We don’t have a third player who can take his man one-in-one. It’s quite limiting to the offense when either are on the bench. It looks like Pat wants Pickett to be a third option, but he’s not there yet. The team just gave up 84 points, this loss has nothing to do with Pickett not being a 3rd option... Agree, that we didn’t do the little things in this game. Making free throws and getting after loose balls would have been enough.
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 19, 2020 11:19:23 GMT -5
Yurtseven and McClung are the only two guys that you can isolate. We don’t have a third player who can take his man one-in-one. It’s quite limiting to the offense when either are on the bench. It looks like Pat wants Pickett to be a third option, but he’s not there yet. Ewing also regularly pulls both Yurt and McCling at the same time midway through the first half. they can't both be on the bench at the same time, absent serious foul trouble. That leaves us with zero offensive creators to pressure the D. Usually Allen tries to create by penetrate/kick stuff, but his effectiveness at this is limited when he doesn't have other playmakers on the floor to draw defensive attention. He usually tries to pull them close to a TV timeout to give both of them the extra 2+ minutes of rest. I guess he could pull one for the under 12 and the other for the under 8, but that extra 4 minutes would be tough for one of them.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,359
|
Post by prhoya on Jan 19, 2020 12:50:39 GMT -5
I'd agree with just about everything, but the part about throwing him different looks. He had the same look every time. The ball screen was defended the same way, with the same interior defense every time. That's why he exploited it as well as he did. Mosely guarded him for about 90% of the game and that was really it. He didn't have anything other than a hard hedge and a defender up top and he beat it the same few ways every time. Got around the big for a three or created opening for another player, split the hedge for a floater/mid range jumper or he made a pass that led to/threw a skip pass to an open man for a jumper. It was the same look. He was absolutely excellent, but he had the same look just about the entire game, and the entire second half. Especially since Marquette ran the exact same set at least 8 times straight. Howard would dribble up and hand it to a ball handler who dribbled across the three point arc and handed it to another guy who dribbled it across and gave it to Howard cutting towards the middle who had a high ball screen set and the entire side to work with. It was the exact same thing. A guy like that having everything slow down and being able to analyze how to beat the same defense will kill you. No matter how well it may be run, he's going to score. He's too talented. Exactly. What you describe happened time and time again. Pat had no answer. It was too easy for Howard.
|
|
hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,207
|
Post by hoya9797 on Jan 19, 2020 12:59:04 GMT -5
It’s strange that one of the greatest defensive players in the history of the game who also has 15 yrs of NBA coaching experience seemingly has no idea how to create and coach a system that can stop college players but here we are.
|
|
Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
|
Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 19, 2020 14:46:32 GMT -5
Players like Howard and Powell aren’t going to be stopped. Howard hits fade-away threes with no space effortlessly. Doesn’t mean the opposing coach can’t teach defense.
|
|
mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,088
|
Post by mapei on Jan 19, 2020 16:41:46 GMT -5
It’s strange that one of the greatest defensive players in the history of the game who also has 15 yrs of NBA coaching experience seemingly has no idea how to create and coach a system that can stop college players but here we are. Wasn't Patrick better known in the NBA for his offense than his defense?
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,405
|
Post by SSHoya on Jan 19, 2020 16:55:57 GMT -5
It’s strange that one of the greatest defensive players in the history of the game who also has 15 yrs of NBA coaching experience seemingly has no idea how to create and coach a system that can stop college players but here we are. Wasn't Patrick better known in the NBA for his offense than his defense? I wouldn't say that. Some say he was underrated as a defender. His offensive game was superior to any center in the past few years and his defense was criminally underrated — almost as underrated and unappreciated as his name is today. ballislife.com/patrick-ewing/ballislife.com/patrick-ewing/He really earned his stripes on defense, where he was an excellent rim protector; in ’88 his shot-blocking exploded to 4.7 blocks per 100 possessions (98th percentile since 1978). Only six players in history produced more seasons with a 5 percent block rate than Ewing’s nine. He inhaled rebounds on defense too, consistently posting rates in the top decile during the ’90s. He was even fairly mobile during his prime, able to bump guards high and recover. His positioning was often sound, although his reactions were sometimes delayed. backpicks.com/2018/01/22/backpicks-goat-27-patrick-ewing/
|
|
mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,088
|
Post by mapei on Jan 19, 2020 17:04:16 GMT -5
I might actually agree that Patrick was "underrated" as an NBA defender. I could be remembering wrong - I'm not much of an NBA fan, more a college-hoops guy - but I seem to recall announcers repeatedly referring to his offensive prowess as among the greatest ever. I didn't hear that so much about his defense.
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,405
|
Post by SSHoya on Jan 19, 2020 17:11:12 GMT -5
I might actually agree that Patrick was "underrated" as an NBA defender. I could be remembering wrong - I'm not much of an NBA fan, more a college-hoops guy - but I seem to recall announcers repeatedly referring to his offensive prowess as among the greatest ever. I didn't hear that so much about his defense. That may be true but I also don't necessarily think that simply if you are considered an elite defensive presence it means that you can translate that into the ability to coach defense, especially from the center position where you reputation is going to be based on blocks and rim protection.
|
|
Omega
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 565
|
Post by Omega on Jan 19, 2020 17:59:28 GMT -5
I'm confused by this discussion. What adjustments should have been made? Everyone knows what this team was lacking last year, defensive stoppers. coach adressed the issue by bringing in defensive players with size to play against the Howard's of the BE...update: those guys transferred out.
|
|
saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,898
|
Post by saxagael on Jan 19, 2020 18:14:21 GMT -5
I'd agree with just about everything, but the part about throwing him different looks. He had the same look every time. The ball screen was defended the same way, with the same interior defense every time. That's why he exploited it as well as he did. Mosely guarded him for about 90% of the game and that was really it. He didn't have anything other than a hard hedge and a defender up top and he beat it the same few ways every time. Got around the big for a three or created opening for another player, split the hedge for a floater/mid range jumper or he made a pass that led to/threw a skip pass to an open man for a jumper. It was the same look. He was absolutely excellent, but he had the same look just about the entire game, and the entire second half. Especially since Marquette ran the exact same set at least 8 times straight. Howard would dribble up and hand it to a ball handler who dribbled across the three point arc and handed it to another guy who dribbled it across and gave it to Howard cutting towards the middle who had a high ball screen set and the entire side to work with. It was the exact same thing. A guy like that having everything slow down and being able to analyze how to beat the same defense will kill you. No matter how well it may be run, he's going to score. He's too talented. Exactly. What you describe happened time and time again. Pat had no answer. It was too easy for Howard. It was exploited as it wasn't run propperly, which is what Pat went into deeply after the game in the presser.
|
|
saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,898
|
Post by saxagael on Jan 19, 2020 18:16:19 GMT -5
It’s strange that one of the greatest defensive players in the history of the game who also has 15 yrs of NBA coaching experience seemingly has no idea how to create and coach a system that can stop college players but here we are. Wasn't Patrick better known in the NBA for his offense than his defense? Nope! Know for being solid on both ends, until the final years were it was not much of either as his body couldn't handle it.
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 19, 2020 18:20:03 GMT -5
Exactly. What you describe happened time and time again. Pat had no answer. It was too easy for Howard. It was exploited as it wasn't run propperly, which is what Pat went into deeply after the game in the presser. If your big men aren't running it properly, is it time to maybe try something different?
|
|
saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,898
|
Post by saxagael on Jan 19, 2020 18:34:53 GMT -5
It was exploited as it wasn't run propperly, which is what Pat went into deeply after the game in the presser. If your big men aren't running it properly, is it time to maybe try something different? They run it right most of the time. Normally gets beat 3 to 5 times a game through it not being run right, but works well 10 to 20 times. I like that ratio. Geogetown runs it really well most of the time. People are complaining when it isn't run properly, but have no clue when it is run properly and how many times each game it does exactly what it is supposed to do. Georgetown bigs run it really well most of the time, well Yurtseven and Q (Timmy doesn't run it well, but his length makes up for the flubs). The players happen to be human and miss the mark slightly and they get beat. Marquette game may have been the most they flubbed it and Patrick went in to it after the game. It takes time to get it down and do it well, but when teams get it the results can be solid. The first two or three games this year it drove me nuts as they didn't run it well (big on the wrong side, guard not close enough, big goes to high and can't easily roll back), but after that it has been relatively solid. Other teams run pick and roll against the Hoyas a lot, likely to wear down players and occasionally get a quick foul. Hoyas haven't been getting called for many fouls. Should Syracuse stop running the 2-3 zone because people score on it?
|
|