DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 2, 2020 23:21:46 GMT -5
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zxhoya
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Post by zxhoya on Jan 2, 2020 23:34:11 GMT -5
Maybe she's a prophet.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 2, 2020 23:55:21 GMT -5
Can you be a prophet about the past? 43 - 82 - 84 - 85 - 07
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Jan 3, 2020 0:16:33 GMT -5
Am I the only one other than Ms.Pulupa who knows that the Elite Eight game in Louisville was awarded to Georgetown when Marty Conlon was later declared ineligible for being a jerk? Not to mention having Rick Pitino forfeit every game he ever coached.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Jan 3, 2020 6:52:26 GMT -5
I emailed her last week. Never got a reply but good to see they fixed it. I’ll take quasi credit.
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Gammo
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Post by Gammo on Jan 3, 2020 7:02:23 GMT -5
Can you be a prophet about the past? 43 - 82 - 84 - 85 - 07 Maybe one of the SFS crowd could comment on this question.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Jan 3, 2020 13:17:01 GMT -5
Can you be a prophet about the past? 43 - 82 - 84 - 85 - 07 Maybe one of the SFS crowd could comment on this question. You rang? Considering '43 a true Final Four is gilding the lily.
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metaphor
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Post by metaphor on Jan 5, 2020 15:37:51 GMT -5
Maybe one of the SFS crowd could comment on this question. You rang? Considering '43 a true Final Four is gilding the lily. SFS 85 here. Of course you should count 1943. Any school would count all final fours since the NCAA began the tournament. Do the Cubs not count their 1907 and 1908 World Series? Do the NY Giants not count any NFL titles before the creation of the Super Bowl? Do the Montreal Canadiens count the 1916 Stanley Cup win, before the creation of the NHL? You bet they do (and are right to do so).
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Jan 5, 2020 15:52:20 GMT -5
You rang? Considering '43 a true Final Four is gilding the lily. SFS 85 here. Of course you should count 1943. Any school would count all final fours since the NCAA began the tournament. Do the Cubs not count their 1907 and 1908 World Series? Do the NY Giants not count any NFL titles before the creation of the Super Bowl? Do the Montreal Canadiens count the 1916 Stanley Cup win, before the creation of the NHL? You bet they do (and are right to do so). Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 5, 2020 16:22:21 GMT -5
Maybe one of the SFS crowd could comment on this question. You rang? Considering '43 a true Final Four is gilding the lily. Of course it's legitimate. It was the NCAA tournament, not some sort of retrograde award like those polls which claim Yale won 27 national titles in football. By that logic, are UCLA's nine Final Fours from 1964 to 1973 in question because they only needed to play two opponents every year (out of either the Big Sky, PCAA, WAC, or a western independent, but none from the Pac-8) to advance to the Final Four?
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Jan 5, 2020 16:30:12 GMT -5
You rang? Considering '43 a true Final Four is gilding the lily. Of course it's legitimate. It was the NCAA tournament, not some sort of retrograde award like those polls which claim Yale won 27 national titles in football. By that logic, are UCLA's nine Final Fours from 1964 to 1973 in question because they only needed to play two opponents every year (out of either the Big Sky, PCAA, WAC, or a western independent, but none from the Pac-8) to advance to the Final Four? Can you name some teams that didn't participate in the UCLA years because of the Vietnam War?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 5, 2020 16:37:03 GMT -5
Can you name some teams that didn't participate in the UCLA years because of the Vietnam War? I am not aware of any schools which did not play because of the war. Marquette (24-3) turned down the 1970 NCAA because of where they were seeded and swept the NIT instead. At that point, a rule change required teams to accept an NCAA invitation if offered or end its season. None to my memory have ever turned down the invite since. A handful of schools, including Georgetown, have turned down NIT invitations, the most recent being LSU (19-14) in 2016. Prior to 1975, only conference champions and a small number of independents were selected for the NCAA tournament.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Jan 5, 2020 16:54:55 GMT -5
Can you name some teams that didn't participate in the UCLA years because of the Vietnam War? I am not aware of any schools which did not play because of the war. Marquette (24-3) turned down the 1970 NCAA because of where they were seeded and swept the NIT instead. At that point, a rule change required teams to accept an NCAA invitation if offered or end its season. None to my memory have ever turned down the invite since. A handful of schools, including Georgetown, have turned down NIT invitations, the most recent being LSU (19-14) in 2016. Prior to 1975, only conference champions and a small number of independents were selected for the NCAA tournament. In 1943, Illinois, the top ranked team in the country with player of the year Andrew Phillip, declined to participate in the tournament because of the war. While I don't know, it's possible there were others. This is, and should be, something of a light-hearted discussion, and congrats to the Elmer Ripley-led Hoyas for being NCAA finalists. But the term "Final Four" has little to no meaning when applied to a tournament in which only eight teams participated. By golly, everybody who showed up was in the Elite Eight!
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Jan 5, 2020 16:58:56 GMT -5
I am not aware of any schools which did not play because of the war. Marquette (24-3) turned down the 1970 NCAA because of where they were seeded and swept the NIT instead. At that point, a rule change required teams to accept an NCAA invitation if offered or end its season. None to my memory have ever turned down the invite since. A handful of schools, including Georgetown, have turned down NIT invitations, the most recent being LSU (19-14) in 2016. Prior to 1975, only conference champions and a small number of independents were selected for the NCAA tournament. In 1943, Illinois, the top ranked team in the country with player of the year Andrew Phillip, declined to participate in the tournament because of the war. While I don't know, it's possible there were others. This is, and should be, something of a light-hearted discussion, and congrats to the Elmer Ripley-led Hoyas for being NCAA finalists. But the term "Final Four" has little to no meaning when applied to a tournament in which only eight teams participated. By golly, everybody who showed up was in the Elite Eight! I don’t disagree but every school counts these. Villanova counts their 1939 appearance which I believe was the initial tournament. NCAA Tournament records really only should be considered 1980 and forward (or dare I even say 1985 forward). But because they don’t, we should count ours much like every other team counts theirs from the 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s. I’m pretty sure if we beat Wyoming in 1943 we’d say we are 2x National Champs.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jan 5, 2020 17:12:16 GMT -5
“In those years, the NIT was a more prestigious tournament than the NCAA,” Meyer wrote in his autobiography Coach. “It was played in New York, while the NCAA was played on scattered campuses in smaller towns. The schools took home thousands of dollars as their share of the gate receipts for playing in Madison Square Garden. In the NCAA eliminations, they were lucky to make expenses. So the NIT meant a lot more to a struggling private school like DePaul.” www.ozy.com/the-huddle/the-nit-was-awesome-until-the-ncaa-ruined-basketball/83025/
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metaphor
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Post by metaphor on Jan 5, 2020 20:23:48 GMT -5
SFS 85 here. Of course you should count 1943. Any school would count all final fours since the NCAA began the tournament. Do the Cubs not count their 1907 and 1908 World Series? Do the NY Giants not count any NFL titles before the creation of the Super Bowl? Do the Montreal Canadiens count the 1916 Stanley Cup win, before the creation of the NHL? You bet they do (and are right to do so). Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? What's your point? Oh you don't have one.
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metaphor
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Post by metaphor on Jan 5, 2020 20:33:37 GMT -5
“In those years, the NIT was a more prestigious tournament than the NCAA,” Meyer wrote in his autobiography Coach. “It was played in New York, while the NCAA was played on scattered campuses in smaller towns. The schools took home thousands of dollars as their share of the gate receipts for playing in Madison Square Garden. In the NCAA eliminations, they were lucky to make expenses. So the NIT meant a lot more to a struggling private school like DePaul.” www.ozy.com/the-huddle/the-nit-was-awesome-until-the-ncaa-ruined-basketball/83025/Why 1980? That is just arbitrary. 1985? Why don't we just vacate our title from 1984 under your logic. Maybe we shouldn't count the any winners of the PGA championship until they switched from match play? If you take this thinking to its logical conclusion I guess Virginia doesn't get to count George Washington as one of its citizens to serve as president because there was no universal suffrage. If you want to argue that it was not as hard to win or make the final four in 1943 than in 2007 I won't disagree. But that team made it to the semifinals and that is just simply a fact.
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metaphor
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Post by metaphor on Jan 5, 2020 20:44:46 GMT -5
“In those years, the NIT was a more prestigious tournament than the NCAA,” Meyer wrote in his autobiography Coach. “It was played in New York, while the NCAA was played on scattered campuses in smaller towns. The schools took home thousands of dollars as their share of the gate receipts for playing in Madison Square Garden. In the NCAA eliminations, they were lucky to make expenses. So the NIT meant a lot more to a struggling private school like DePaul.” www.ozy.com/the-huddle/the-nit-was-awesome-until-the-ncaa-ruined-basketball/83025/Not surprising Meyer said that but his team (Depaul) which one the NIT in 1945 lost in the "Red Cross Game" to Hank Iba's NCAA champion Oklahoma State. This was the third defeat in a row for the NIT champion to the NCAA champion.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jan 5, 2020 20:52:21 GMT -5
“In those years, the NIT was a more prestigious tournament than the NCAA,” Meyer wrote in his autobiography Coach. “It was played in New York, while the NCAA was played on scattered campuses in smaller towns. The schools took home thousands of dollars as their share of the gate receipts for playing in Madison Square Garden. In the NCAA eliminations, they were lucky to make expenses. So the NIT meant a lot more to a struggling private school like DePaul.” www.ozy.com/the-huddle/the-nit-was-awesome-until-the-ncaa-ruined-basketball/83025/Why 1980? That is just arbitrary. 1985? Why don't we just vacate our title from 1984 under your logic. Maybe we shouldn't count the any winners of the PGA championship until they switched from match play? If you take this thinking to its logical conclusion I guess Virginia doesn't get to count George Washington as one of its citizens to serve as president because there was no universal suffrage. If you want to argue that it was not as hard to win or make the final four in 1943 than in 2007 I won't disagree. But that team made it to the semifinals and that is just simply a fact. Don't get your knickers in such a twist. I count all 5 Final Fours. I just thought it was an interesting article. Sheesh.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Jan 5, 2020 21:35:16 GMT -5
Why 1980? That is just arbitrary. 1985? Why don't we just vacate our title from 1984 under your logic. Maybe we shouldn't count the any winners of the PGA championship until they switched from match play? If you take this thinking to its logical conclusion I guess Virginia doesn't get to count George Washington as one of its citizens to serve as president because there was no universal suffrage. If you want to argue that it was not as hard to win or make the final four in 1943 than in 2007 I won't disagree. But that team made it to the semifinals and that is just simply a fact. Don't get your knickers in such a twist. I count all 5 Final Fours. I just thought it was an interesting article. Sheesh. All final fours count. Perhaps a Final Four in the 40s or 50s was actually less impressive then a NIT run, but it still counts in the record books. That being said, March Madness as we know it really began following the Magic-Bird final and then boosted by some memorable finals in the 80s (UNC vs Us, NC State, Nova vs Us, Indiana vs Cuse, Kansas vs Oklahoma, etc). Also the expansion of the tournament to 64 teams made winning that much harder. UCLA’s Final Fours I always think are misleading. Likewise all the independent east coast schools were at a clear disadvantage in making the tournament. But that was the system and the results are the results.
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