Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 22, 2020 7:13:45 GMT -5
The financial markets have moved down so swiftly that it may have an impact on endowment rankings. Aggressively positioned portfolios will take a larger hit if there is no rebound.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 22, 2020 7:18:48 GMT -5
I am interested to see what this pandemic does to Colleges globally. With the ability to teach on line being displayed everywhere from Kindergarten to Grad School, the American consumer (read parents) may finally wake up to the remarkable hijack that is undergraduate education.
It will be interesting to see if the consumer public responds with “Enough!”
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Mar 28, 2020 13:42:20 GMT -5
I am interested to see what this pandemic does to Colleges globally. With the ability to teach on line being displayed everywhere from Kindergarten to Grad School, the American consumer (read parents) may finally wake up to the remarkable hijack that is undergraduate education. It will be interesting to see if the consumer public responds with “Enough!” The thing is, universities - and, for that matter, private and selective public primary and secondary schools - have long recognized to varying degrees that the transmission of knowledge is not the only thing or even the main thing they are called to provide. The steady rise in tuitions tracks with a steady shift in the balance between teaching, which as a standard model has remained the same for the past century plus, and all the other aspects of enrollment in an educational institution. With respect to colleges, sure, having better teaching professors is better on balance. But measuring instructional efficacy in any sort of objective way is notoriously difficult, and many professors are researchers first and teachers second. There are lots of bad teachers at Harvard and great ones at directional state schools. Networking and socialization has long been the other main draw - from "making Yale men" to the networks of alumni that have dominated the public and private sectors from the days when college education was relatively limited. It's not just the Ivy League set either - by way of example, the upper strata of my home state of Alabama was long dominated (like, into the 1990s) by those who formed bonds as part of The Machine, the Greek-controlled student government at the University of Alabama. More recently, what college students and their parents are also paying top dollar for to an ever-increasing degree is "the college experience." It used to be, that was largely just kids boozing it up on their own, which was not something that cost schools much money. But now, there is an expectation places on universities to provide a vast array of services, providing as comfortable and exciting of an environment as possible for going from teenager to adult in four years' time. You can try to replicate some aspects of that online, and I'm sure this crisis will spur a lot of innovation on that front. But fundamentally, I think you're going to see the continued commodification of instruction up to relatively advanced levels, while all the experiential stuff only gains in importance and differentiation.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 28, 2020 15:55:14 GMT -5
I was able to spend four years with smart people. Overachievers who are my friends today. I had great internships, relationships with professors, joined clubs, played intramurals, attended basketball games, etc. An online degree is not the same, in my opinion.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 28, 2020 17:52:46 GMT -5
I was able to spend four years with smart people. Overachievers who are my friends today. I had great internships, relationships with professors, joined clubs, played intramurals, attended basketball games, etc. An online degree is not the same, in my opinion. I don’t think the “traditional” undergraduate experience goes away. I do wonder if the insane price gouging continues.
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Post by badgerhoya on Mar 28, 2020 20:20:19 GMT -5
I was able to spend four years with smart people. Overachievers who are my friends today. I had great internships, relationships with professors, joined clubs, played intramurals, attended basketball games, etc. An online degree is not the same, in my opinion. I don’t think the “traditional” undergraduate experience goes away. I do wonder if the insane price gouging continues. I don’t think it’s a binary choice, tbh. Can someone take a required Western Civ class online? And then the more advanced courses in person? Or do you require kids to spend their first year at a local community college for the initial courses - certified by GU so they still get the benefit of that education - and then on campus life turns into a three year vs a four year experience? I think there are many ways to skin the cat here... however it’s going to take courage to be the first one to take the leap.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 28, 2020 22:28:23 GMT -5
It going to take a lot less demand to move the needle. Perhaps, a prolonged recession and less international students due to the virus/political climate would do it. Also, I believe the echo boomer population is peaking now.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 4, 2020 19:52:45 GMT -5
Re: the "traditional" undergraduate experience, it's very dependent on the career. Someone can make $80-120K a year as a DBA (database administrator) and you certainly don't need a four year residential college or even a degree to excel. Health care is another field where the accumulation of experience is more important that who you met in college.
The last 20 years at Georgetown has stressed the notion of a community of scholars, where the outwardly diverse audience of students (but homogenous in so many other ways) discuss the great issues with adjectives like discourse, consequence, and engender. There's a place for that, of course, but it's increasingly secondary to a much different environment after college, and one which is slowly but inevitably devaluing the primacy of a liberal arts education outside of those academics that know nothing else. That's one reason, in part, why the colleges that are closing are those which are primarily liberal arts based, as the value of education is overrated within the academy and underrated outside it.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Apr 9, 2020 5:12:14 GMT -5
Georgetown University’s undergraduate first-year acceptance rate rose to 15% this admissions season, an increase from last year’s record low of 14%. A total of 3,309 applicants were admitted to the Class of 2024 from a pool of 21,318 first-year applicants. The increased acceptance rate came after the pool of first-year applicants to Georgetown decreased by 3%. The university admissions committee also decided to accept about 100 more students than originally planned in anticipation of a low yield rate from the Class of 2024, according to Dean of Undergraduate Admissions Charles Deacon (CAS ’64, GRD ’69). thehoya.com/gu-sees-rise-in-acceptance-rate-for-class-of-2024/
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Apr 9, 2020 7:34:38 GMT -5
The best candidate I’ve ever interviewed for Georgetown was waitlisted. My good friend from high school’s son was waitlisted at GU, but accepted to Stanford, Notre Dame and Navy. Go figure. 🤔
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Apr 9, 2020 7:56:15 GMT -5
The best candidate I’ve ever interviewed for Georgetown was waitlisted. My good friend from high school’s son was waitlisted at GU, but accepted to Stanford, Notre Dame and Navy. Go figure. 🤔 I see this each and every year. I would love to sit in quietly on an admissions meeting to know what the hell goes on in there.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Apr 9, 2020 15:11:39 GMT -5
Re: the "traditional" undergraduate experience, it's very dependent on the career. Someone can make $80-120K a year as a DBA (database administrator) and you certainly don't need a four year residential college or even a degree to excel. Health care is another field where the accumulation of experience is more important that who you met in college. The last 20 years at Georgetown has stressed the notion of a community of scholars, where the outwardly diverse audience of students (but homogenous in so many other ways) discuss the great issues with adjectives like discourse, consequence, and engender. There's a place for that, of course, but it's increasingly secondary to a much different environment after college, and one which is slowly but inevitably devaluing the primacy of a liberal arts education outside of those academics that know nothing else. That's one reason, in part, why the colleges that are closing are those which are primarily liberal arts based, as the value of education is overrated within the academy and underrated outside it. It would come as a major surprise to many doctors and others in the medical field I know that theirs is a field in which networking is relatively less important. My experience (including while working at Georgetown) has been quite the opposite - medicine is a remarkably nepotistic and networking-driven field. The thing to keep in mind about the "community of scholars" branding is that is explicitly experiential. It stresses *community,* a deeply humanistic concept, first and foremost. Pretty much everyone wants to be part of a community, whether they're the most liberal of liberal arts majors or a Vulcan-like STEM diehard. I feel like we, the American professional class, have already done at least 5 or 6 pendulum cycles on the relative merits and prioritization of liberal arts and STEM. For every "why everyone should learn to code" Silicon Valley hot take, there are an equal number of pieces about why liberal arts and the critical, humanistic thinking they impart are more important than ever. But to the extent that liberal arts education continues to become more of a luxury good... Georgetown is in the luxury segment of the market. If anything, strengths in those areas would only further differentiate it from schools that become de facto four-year community colleges (no slight against community colleges intended!) pumping out DBAs and paramedical staff... or the schools that had to close up shop because their brand name could not gin up the demand necessary to meet enrollment targets at the cost of doing business.
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Post by reformation on Apr 9, 2020 17:20:02 GMT -5
It would be interesting to see some actual data of what Gtwn grads do by major/program upon graduation. Would provide some real world context for the value of Gtwn's approach liberal arts vs stem vs business etc.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Apr 9, 2020 17:37:08 GMT -5
It would be interesting to see some actual data of what Gtwn grads do by major/program upon graduation. Would provide some real world context for the value of Gtwn's approach liberal arts vs stem vs business etc. The surveys may not have the granularity you seek: careercenter.georgetown.edu/about-us/senior-survey-outcomes/
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Apr 9, 2020 17:55:57 GMT -5
The best candidate I’ve ever interviewed for Georgetown was waitlisted. My good friend from high school’s son was waitlisted at GU, but accepted to Stanford, Notre Dame and Navy. Go figure. 🤔 I see this each and every year. I would love to sit in quietly on an admissions meeting to know what the hell goes on in there. Pretty much the same thing that goes on in the admissions meetings of just about every highly selective university in the United States. When all of them are faced with a situation where there are far, far more qualified students applying than there are admission slots, differences in institutional profile (e.g., we have no engineering school, most highly selective schools don't have undergraduate nursing or business) or relatively minor differences in emphasis (how schools weight standardized test, class rank, rigor of courseload, co- and extra-curriculars, essays, interviews if they have them, etc) can lead to different outcomes. That's before we get to legacy status and other special considerations. I think a lot of people have this false notion that every school ranks every applicant pretty much the same, such that anyone admitted to a more 'prestigious' school should automatically be a shoo-in at any less prestigious school. There's certainly a strong correlation there, but it's not the linear relationship people think it is. This is all aside from the strategic waitlisting of 'overqualified' applicants that some schools engage in (hi WUSTL!).
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Apr 9, 2020 18:37:13 GMT -5
Both legacy candidates I recently interviewed were denied, granted they didn’t possess exceptional resumes.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Apr 9, 2020 18:40:44 GMT -5
In my years of interviewing candidates, the very few candidates that were accepted opted to matriculate elsewhere. I have yet to have the joy of interviewing a candidate that attends the school. Bit of an empty experience. ☹️
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Apr 9, 2020 18:57:00 GMT -5
In my years of interviewing candidates, the very few candidates that were accepted opted to matriculate elsewhere. I have yet to have the joy of interviewing a candidate that attends the school. Bit of an empty experience. ☹️ I’ve had one enroll and it was one of the lesser candidates I have ever interviewed. However, the chance to talk about Alma Mater to young people is still a joy.
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Post by reformation on Apr 9, 2020 19:29:16 GMT -5
2 hours ago reformation said:
It would be interesting to see some actual data of what Gtwn grads do by major/program upon graduation. Would provide some real world context for the value of Gtwn's approach liberal arts vs stem vs business etc.
The surveys may not have the granularity you seek:
careercenter.georgetown.edu/about-us/senior-survey-outcomes/ Thanks--interesting stuff--I have access to Columbia's info(never looked at it) will be interesting to compare
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Apr 10, 2020 5:16:42 GMT -5
In my years of interviewing candidates, the very few candidates that were accepted opted to matriculate elsewhere. I have yet to have the joy of interviewing a candidate that attends the school. Bit of an empty experience. ☹️ I’ve had one enroll and it was one of the lesser candidates I have ever interviewed. However, the chance to talk about Alma Mater to young people is still a joy. I enjoy the interviews as well. The kids are generally very smart and are at such a pivot time in their lives. I just wish I could send more congratulatory emails and hear how excited they are to be going. Our acceptance rate is 15%, so I get the picture.
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