SirSaxa
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,620
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Post by SirSaxa on Dec 7, 2019 12:17:29 GMT -5
Voluntary Transfer, in LeBlanc's case, could easily mean he was dismissed from the team, but not from University. The wording of the PR was, I believe, something to the effect of: "no longer with the team." Because Akinjo also chose to transfer at the same time despite not being implicated, and that two other kids were "named" as involved with LeBlanc's original problems adds considerable confusion.
My interpretation is - purely based on reading various reports: LeBlanc got himself in serious trouble and got himself dismissed from the team, at least for the year Alexander and Gardner were "collateral damage", so did not get dismissed, or even suspended. Their situations have not yet been clarified or fully resolved as far as I can tell. AKinjo - given the timing of this and leaving in the middle of the season, it leads one to believe there was some kind of link - not to the misbehavior, but perhaps to his disagreement with how Coach, staff and admin handled the original offense? And could also be "final straw" of frustration with the team and/or coach.
Also, it is in everyone's best interest to have LeBlanc and Akinjo finish the semester with passing grades. They will need that wherever they end up next, and it helps GU basketball's academic performance record.
Sad situation. Really is too bad. Akinjo was our most talented PG in many a year. Maybe not the best decision maker yet, and maybe not especially coachable, but man could he ball. LeBlanc's game reminded me of two former Hoyas.. Jerome Williams and Pat's kid, PE Jr. Energy, Defense, Rebounding, dirty work, putbacks, chaos (for opponents). Both Akinjo and LeBlanc will be missed on the court, but it is entirely possible team cohesiveness (and performance?) will be improved. At least, that's what it looked like v Oklahoma St.
FInally, whatever happened, I am sure we all hope everyone involved - including the two women -- comes out of this OK, and whatever next steps each pursues will work out well for them.
Meanwhile we have another game tonight @ SMU! Hope to see the team continue to play as well as they did last game.
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Post by practice on Dec 7, 2019 12:19:04 GMT -5
If LeBlanc violated his restraining order, that may have sealed his fate. Guilty or not, your season is over at that point. Have you stopped beating your dog? What kind of ridiculous uninformed and irresponsible speculation is that? Let's stick to facts and remember that there is an incredible lack of factual information.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,652
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Post by guru on Dec 7, 2019 12:51:01 GMT -5
Families of both players claim the transfers were voluntary. (There was a poster on FB who claimed that Josh’s mother said this). Lots of possible reasons for the timing but it is entirely possible that Josh removed himself before news broke. I agree the wording of the transfer announcement raises questions but in absence of other comments let’s assume it was voluntary. I know the post I wrote was way too long to be read but the university policies are clear that no one on campus can retaliate or punish the respondent in one of these complaints until the investigation and hearing process ends. There was no "transfer statement" - the word didn't even appear in the original statement.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 12:53:16 GMT -5
I know exactly what's going on, but I'm not allowed to discuss it here.
You'll be hearing more from the university tomorrow.
Best if we lock this thread and end speculation.
1-2-3 transferballs
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,652
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Post by guru on Dec 7, 2019 13:00:05 GMT -5
I know exactly what's going on, but I'm not allowed to discuss it here. You'll be hearing more from the university tomorrow. Best if we lock this thread and end speculation. 1-2-3 transferballs Under normal circumstances, this would sound ridiculous. But it's just like the stooges we have running this program to announce something on a Sunday, and then crawl back to their holes in a barrage of "no comment"s
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Post by hoya8185 on Dec 7, 2019 13:44:27 GMT -5
I know exactly what's going on, but I'm not allowed to discuss it here. You'll be hearing more from the university tomorrow. Best if we lock this thread and end speculation. 1-2-3 transferballs So a third transfer?
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Post by gatormcclusky on Dec 7, 2019 15:05:16 GMT -5
Title IX refers to the policies that the University is required to uphold and it requires all employees to uphold them. The Office of Student Conduct is charged with mediating those complaints and ensuring that the disputes between complainants and respondents are carried out so that this is a Title IX complaint. There are several other offices that provide counseling and places where confidentiality is assured so that women can decide whether to pursue a complaint. I have checked the rights of respondents and claimants and found the following things that are pertinent to this discussion: This process does not preclude police reports or criminal investigations. They are independent of the work of the Office of Student Conduct. The standard of proof required by the OSC is lower than a court of law. That is, the university can invoke disciplinary action if the evidence points to a reasonable claim. A timeframe for resolution of a case is 60 days (with time allowed for the response by the complainant; and investigation) The prior sexual history of a complainant, except that related to the respondent(s), cannot be brought as evidence. The dress of the complainant cannot be brought as evidence. The respondent has the right to continue his studies without fear of retaliation (ie, from professors, employers, and coaches) Students do not have to fear prosecution for breaking other codes of conduct, particularly regarding drugs and alcohol There will be a report issued at end of investigation and both parties have the right to appeal. This process provides both parties, particularly the complainant, rights that criminal and civil courts do not. As a woman who graduated from Georgetown 40 years ago, the various counseling services and this adjudication process would have provided me an opportunity to address several threatening situations. Placing myself in the complainant’s shoes, I would be extremely uncomfortable with the call out culture of our fans on Twitter and the media. That is me, though. She may not be reacting that way. I do know this. If the “me too” movement is to be successful, it has to move beyond righteous indignation with clear and fair adjudication processes and that ultimately includes our courts where there are so many issues regarding the admission of evidence and allowable questions. It is reassuring to see some cases move forward, but I wonder if the successful prosecution of Nassir will have much impact on the way trials of domestic violence, for instance, are heard. We have a long way to go. Probably more than anyone on this board, I have wondered how the university would handle complaints against one of our players. I even wondered whether they asked Ewing about this in his interview. Admittedly the optics of someone with his history is not good but I strongly believe in the possibility of personal transformation (and I would argue that his patronage of sex workers is fundamentally different than sexual violence) I firmly believe that he will lose his job if he fails to follow the expectations outlined by this process. So far, I am satisfied because I would ask for a process that enables all parties in the complaint to feel safe. Regarding the team, there are some things I would assume. Ewing is aware of the complaints and probably has the information provided to the complainants. He knows better than any of us the players’ side of the story. I am really not sure why everyone is assuming the one-game suspension of LeBlanc is because of this complaint. The assumption on that game day was that it was about a party he attended the night before which he posted as an IG story. (Has anyone else followed him on IG? There were several posts I found somewhat disturbing that probably were red flags). Anyway, I’m not sure why anyone assumes that questionable behavior is isolated to a few days in September or even one relationship. Ewing has the prerogative to enforce team rules. And I suspect it was related to the first rumor. And I may be one of the only fans who thought Ewing’s usage of LeBlanc this season was largely justified for basketball reasons (it was certainly arguable, but UNCG game was a bad game for LeBlanc, really truly). We know this is far from over, as we don’t know the fates of Gardner or Alexander. I found it reassuring to see the team play with a sense of relief which signifies to me acceptance by the team of these players. The ‘me too” movement has changed the conversation about sexual harassment and intimidation on campuses and that involves men discussing behavior among themselves. While we have discussed ad nauseas the impact of Akinjo’s unselfishness, no one has commented on the possibility that members of the team had issues with Josh aa well. At the very least, I can say that if players had any issue with Myron or Galen it would have been apparent. Obviously this does not preclude any possibility regarding the outcome of this investigation. They could be dismissed from school and then are subject to Ewing’s judgment regarding team rules. There are tons of possibilities that can include voluntarily leaving the program. No doubt their family and friends are watching. Much has been said about their interest in a potential suit, but they could simply encourage the students to leave. It is understandable that fans have reacted this way, but I have deep concerns about call out culture. And the media coverage has been reckless in their rush to judge the coach and university. This is especially true since the policies and procedures of the university are extremely accessible. Confidentiality and non-retaliation are the central to providing a safe space for all parties. I attach below some relevant pages. And I plan to tweak this post and send it with an introduction to Barry Svrugala and Ava Wallace. I’m open to suggestions for other reporters who need to reflect upon this. titleix.georgetown.edu/studentconduct.georgetown.edu/#_ga=2.86240664.1421557122.1575722961-77631235.1560708579great, thoughtful post. I think that the social sturm und drang generated by callout culture is unproductive at best and could eventually result in some seriously awful scenarios. I don't use Instagram, so your take on LeBlanc is very interesting. I had heard some second and third hand references last year to him being a hard partying type of guy, and I remember thinking that wasn't the greatest thing to hear about such an important player. Would you be willing to share details on what specifically tripped your Spidey senses from his IG story?
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Hoyas4Ever
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
Posts: 5,448
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Dec 7, 2019 15:38:13 GMT -5
I'm not so sure LeBlanc transferred on his own. Based on the original release, my original thought was there was suspensions for the season given out to the player(s) and in disagreement they opted to transfer. I ran that scenario by people I know who have worked at D1 program Compliance Offices, they tend to believe LeBlanc was suspended for the season and his reaction in was to transfer. I'm not saying that's absolutely how it went down but that's the feed back I got from multiple people. Otherwise why mention suspension in the original statement at all?... The word suspension wasn’t used in the original statement or PE’s follow up statement... Check the original statement on the 1st page of this thread... Your right the word "suspension" wasn't used. I delineated that from the verbage used in the original release. Georgetown University men's basketball players James Akinjo and Josh LeBlanc will not be playing for the men's basketball team effective immediately and will not be members of the team for the remainder of the season, Head Coach Patrick Ewing announced today.By having a time frame "remainder of the season", sounds like a suspension to me. Otherwise they would have just been dismissed from the program. The only reason why I'm not sure if Akinjo was suspended (which is quite possible he was) is because the program made an effort in later re releases to separate him completely from LeBlanc. It's still very possible Akinjo was suspended and then opted to transfer as well but for different reasons then LeBlanc and the SID just keeps screwing up the releases...
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,477
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Post by TC on Dec 7, 2019 15:44:40 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 18:22:10 GMT -5
I know exactly what's going on, but I'm not allowed to discuss it here. You'll be hearing more from the university tomorrow. Best if we lock this thread and end speculation. 1-2-3 transferballs To all: I'm just effing around here. If i actually knew something i wouldn't dangle it in front of you - I'd keep my trap shut. I thought the transferballs (and the general absurdity) was a giveaway.
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joey0403p
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,586
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Post by joey0403p on Dec 7, 2019 20:47:06 GMT -5
Hahahaha
I’m thinking - holy crap what else is coming out?!?
If anyone else was transferring and they knew it now - that guy wouldn’t play tonight - so there would be pretty quick speculation.
Your post was hilarious
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rlo24
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 337
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Post by rlo24 on Dec 7, 2019 23:48:56 GMT -5
If only RJ Davis knew all the PT he could have now... In all seriousness, regardless of the reason here, this is a disaster for the program. Something I think sets us back another 5 years and probably will result in a messy end to this Ewing experiment. Something has been off with this team all year, I just didn't think Akinjo was part of any of it; that's the shocker to me. Kinda takes any enjoyment out of the rest of the year, but we know we'll all be watching no matter what. I have a weird feeling we might play better, but I also have dread that this is headed like that St John's season and we could be 1-17. 1-17 predictions seem to be fading away fast in the rear view mirror
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 32,002
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 7, 2019 23:53:51 GMT -5
#WeOverMe
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daveg023
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,364
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Post by daveg023 on Dec 8, 2019 0:04:46 GMT -5
If only RJ Davis knew all the PT he could have now... In all seriousness, regardless of the reason here, this is a disaster for the program. Something I think sets us back another 5 years and probably will result in a messy end to this Ewing experiment. Something has been off with this team all year, I just didn't think Akinjo was part of any of it; that's the shocker to me. Kinda takes any enjoyment out of the rest of the year, but we know we'll all be watching no matter what. I have a weird feeling we might play better, but I also have dread that this is headed like that St John's season and we could be 1-17. 1-17 predictions seem to be fading away fast in the rear view mirror Crazy week for sure. Let’s just forget the second half of my statement and focus on the prescient first part.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,558
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Post by tashoya on Dec 8, 2019 0:12:25 GMT -5
Alexander and Gardner playing really limited minutes makes me think we're not done yet.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 8, 2019 0:21:22 GMT -5
Alexander and Gardner playing really limited minutes makes me think we're not done yet. Maybe, but it's not a coincidence that in the last two games they've been pretty bad, so I wouldn't read too much into that. Of course, I really have no idea what will happen with them going forward.
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Post by BeantownHoya on Dec 8, 2019 0:59:07 GMT -5
They played a combined 33 minutes tonight. Alexander actually had more minutes than blair and only 4 fewer minutes then Pickett.
I am not expecting him to play much more than that...
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Post by trillesthoya on Dec 8, 2019 1:35:39 GMT -5
Alexander and Gardner playing really limited minutes makes me think we're not done yet. Maybe, but it's not a coincidence that in the last two games they've been pretty bad, so I wouldn't read too much into that. Of course, I really have no idea what will happen with them going forward. Alexander was solid against Ok. State.
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Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
Posts: 5,448
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Dec 8, 2019 2:29:03 GMT -5
Maybe, but it's not a coincidence that in the last two games they've been pretty bad, so I wouldn't read too much into that. Of course, I really have no idea what will happen with them going forward. Alexander was solid against Ok. State. Anyone that thinks Gardner was awful tonight doesn't know anything about basketball outside of what a box score tells them. He was outstanding tonight defensively. His hustle alone tonight, stopped at least 3 SMU fast breaks. He's got great lateral quickness and keeps his man in front of him. He is really developed in thinking the game defensively. His helpside instincts are way beyond a typical freshman. Most freshmen struggle mightily with understanding where to be in helpside in terms of ball/man/rotation responsibilities. He seems to have a great grasp of that. He also seems to understand The details of scouting reports. The reason I say that is based on how he closes out on the perimeter. Some players he closes hard trying to force them off the three, other players he closes with choppy/stuter steps in more of an effort to show but not close hard and recover if necessary. He also gets in the key and battles the Bigs for tough rebounds in traffic. Gardner is very good defensively. Since he's obviously a hard worker and able to focus on details, I'm confident his jump shot will eventually come in time as he continues to work. I really high on what I see from him & Wahab.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,434
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Post by hoyarooter on Dec 8, 2019 4:08:18 GMT -5
Title IX refers to the policies that the University is required to uphold and it requires all employees to uphold them. The Office of Student Conduct is charged with mediating those complaints and ensuring that the disputes between complainants and respondents are carried out so that this is a Title IX complaint. There are several other offices that provide counseling and places where confidentiality is assured so that women can decide whether to pursue a complaint. I have checked the rights of respondents and claimants and found the following things that are pertinent to this discussion: This process does not preclude police reports or criminal investigations. They are independent of the work of the Office of Student Conduct. The standard of proof required by the OSC is lower than a court of law. That is, the university can invoke disciplinary action if the evidence points to a reasonable claim. A timeframe for resolution of a case is 60 days (with time allowed for the response by the complainant; and investigation) The prior sexual history of a complainant, except that related to the respondent(s), cannot be brought as evidence. The dress of the complainant cannot be brought as evidence. The respondent has the right to continue his studies without fear of retaliation (ie, from professors, employers, and coaches) Students do not have to fear prosecution for breaking other codes of conduct, particularly regarding drugs and alcohol There will be a report issued at end of investigation and both parties have the right to appeal. This process provides both parties, particularly the complainant, rights that criminal and civil courts do not. As a woman who graduated from Georgetown 40 years ago, the various counseling services and this adjudication process would have provided me an opportunity to address several threatening situations. Placing myself in the complainant’s shoes, I would be extremely uncomfortable with the call out culture of our fans on Twitter and the media. That is me, though. She may not be reacting that way. I do know this. If the “me too” movement is to be successful, it has to move beyond righteous indignation with clear and fair adjudication processes and that ultimately includes our courts where there are so many issues regarding the admission of evidence and allowable questions. It is reassuring to see some cases move forward, but I wonder if the successful prosecution of Nassir will have much impact on the way trials of domestic violence, for instance, are heard. We have a long way to go. Probably more than anyone on this board, I have wondered how the university would handle complaints against one of our players. I even wondered whether they asked Ewing about this in his interview. Admittedly the optics of someone with his history is not good but I strongly believe in the possibility of personal transformation (and I would argue that his patronage of sex workers is fundamentally different than sexual violence) I firmly believe that he will lose his job if he fails to follow the expectations outlined by this process. So far, I am satisfied because I would ask for a process that enables all parties in the complaint to feel safe. Regarding the team, there are some things I would assume. Ewing is aware of the complaints and probably has the information provided to the complainants. He knows better than any of us the players’ side of the story. I am really not sure why everyone is assuming the one-game suspension of LeBlanc is because of this complaint. The assumption on that game day was that it was about a party he attended the night before which he posted as an IG story. (Has anyone else followed him on IG? There were several posts I found somewhat disturbing that probably were red flags). Anyway, I’m not sure why anyone assumes that questionable behavior is isolated to a few days in September or even one relationship. Ewing has the prerogative to enforce team rules. And I suspect it was related to the first rumor. And I may be one of the only fans who thought Ewing’s usage of LeBlanc this season was largely justified for basketball reasons (it was certainly arguable, but UNCG game was a bad game for LeBlanc, really truly). We know this is far from over, as we don’t know the fates of Gardner or Alexander. I found it reassuring to see the team play with a sense of relief which signifies to me acceptance by the team of these players. The ‘me too” movement has changed the conversation about sexual harassment and intimidation on campuses and that involves men discussing behavior among themselves. While we have discussed ad nauseas the impact of Akinjo’s unselfishness, no one has commented on the possibility that members of the team had issues with Josh aa well. At the very least, I can say that if players had any issue with Myron or Galen it would have been apparent. Obviously this does not preclude any possibility regarding the outcome of this investigation. They could be dismissed from school and then are subject to Ewing’s judgment regarding team rules. There are tons of possibilities that can include voluntarily leaving the program. No doubt their family and friends are watching. Much has been said about their interest in a potential suit, but they could simply encourage the students to leave. It is understandable that fans have reacted this way, but I have deep concerns about call out culture. And the media coverage has been reckless in their rush to judge the coach and university. This is especially true since the policies and procedures of the university are extremely accessible. Confidentiality and non-retaliation are the central to providing a safe space for all parties. I attach below some relevant pages. And I plan to tweak this post and send it with an introduction to Barry Svrugala and Ava Wallace. I’m open to suggestions for other reporters who need to reflect upon this. titleix.georgetown.edu/studentconduct.georgetown.edu/#_ga=2.86240664.1421557122.1575722961-77631235.1560708579Well, I read your post. I wasn't about to, since its length was worthy of MCI at his best, but I sensed when I saw your reference to being a woman who had graduated 40 years ago that it would be worth reading as a different and valuable perspective, and I was right. Thank you for this.
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