sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Dec 7, 2019 0:39:29 GMT -5
Ok but Title IX deals with sexual based harassment, discrimination and sexual violence. All bad but also very different. The first two get you fired/sued/suspended, etc. The third gets you in jail. Without underlying details there isn't a valid comparison to Georgetown's situation. True but in the few articles I've read on this case none of them mentioned any police involvement and Corprew isn't in jail or had any charges filed against him... The two cases look similar to me... Do you understand the difference between Sexual harassment and sexual assault and assault? If you did, you wouldn’t be making these analogies. And there is no Title IX investigation to wait for. Not sure they’re is any investigation to wait for results from considering this happened in September and was reported and seemingly investigated by police then. And there were not criminal charges. What are you people waiting for exactly?
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Post by strummer8526 on Dec 7, 2019 0:47:27 GMT -5
Okay, let's all be perfectly honest and ask ourselves if we would be as "understanding" if this mess was occurring at Syracuse, UCONN or some football powerhouse. In my mind we would be saying that, at the least, the players named in the TRO should be suspended until the matter is resolved. Sure, but wouldn't most of us also realize that our opinions carry exactly as much weight as the views of random citizens from a rival fanbase who have no influence or even tangible interest in the matter—which is to say, absolutely no one would give a damn what we think? So it would be easy (and natural, and sometimes fun) to fire off a hot-take on an issue that doesn't really affect us and over which we would have no control anyway. Isn't that one of the reasons to follow sports in the first place? They give people something to talk about without necessarily doing a lot of soul searching each time you crack a joke about Eric Devendorf? Then, when something arises closer to your own team, you give it a little more thought and you look at it in a different, probably biased light. I'm not saying either position—suspend the players or don't—is absolutely right or wrong in this case. I have no idea because I certainly know less about the allegations and underlying facts than the folks in McDonough and Healy do. These are really hard issues, even for the professionals whose full-time job it is to actually figure out what to do based on all the facts available to them. And it's pretty clear we don't currently know—and probably won't ever know—all of the facts. For fans who have enough hard issues to think about at work and home, maybe it's ok to just acknowledge that we would casually knock Syracuse if the same story came out about them; but at the same time, we're happy (perhaps a little cautiously or grudgingly) with the fact that our players are suiting up for the time being. A little hypocritical in a way that couldn't possibly matter less? Sure. Oh well. Of course, if anyone actually confirms the players engaged in serious wrongdoing, it's a different story. Until then, our rivals get to poke ill-informed, easy fun at us, as we've done to them before and no doubt will do again in the future. I don't like it, but I can live with it.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Dec 7, 2019 0:51:32 GMT -5
Does the word "suspension" connote a form of "official" disciplinary action? What if Coach Ewing simply sat the two players within his discretion as he did with Josh and the "S" word wasn't used? I guess the question that I have been struggling with when I read that people want Alexander and Gardner to be benched (suspension, coach’s decision, whatever you want to call it) is that in this situation, when should the benching have started and when should the benching end? Start: Allegations made, University review started, University review ended, civil complaint filed, TRO granted, civil case ended? End: University review ended, civil case ended?
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Dec 7, 2019 0:58:09 GMT -5
I guess I'm in the camp of burying my head in the sand, and having that luxury, due to the lack of information. I'd be fine with the guys remaining being benched. And, if that was the decision, damn the season if that's what was right. I just don't know the legalities or the degree to which the situation has been investigated. I'd like to be able to feel good either way but I can't. I'd also like to feel better about the situation after it has been worked out but, again, I have very little faith that any of us will ever get enough information to feel good about how it was handled. My nature is to want us to be more cautious, more strict. But, again, I don't know the details or the legality. Similarly, I don't want to punish people that don't deserve it. I can easily get on board with those that are angry at the way the University has handled it. I'm right there with you. I can also get on board with those that say that Coach has to play guys while it plays out. Regardless of how it works out, it's a really ugly time for our school. As lic always says, it's about more than basketball. I'd love to hear his thoughts, though, I doubt he'd share them publicly about situations like this. And, for that, I admire him even more. I intended not to say anything. But I couldn't help myself.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 7, 2019 2:11:52 GMT -5
True but in the few articles I've read on this case none of them mentioned any police involvement and Corprew isn't in jail or had any charges filed against him... The two cases look similar to me... Do you understand the difference between Sexual harassment and sexual assault and assault? If you did, you wouldn’t be making these analogies. And there is no Title IX investigation to wait for. Not sure they’re is any investigation to wait for results from considering this happened in September and was reported and seemingly investigated by police then. And there were not criminal charges. What are you people waiting for exactly? My point in posting the article was to show that some schools opt to suspend players “pending” investigations... If you go back a page and follow the conversation posters were discussing due process, even you in another thread said that suspending players would open up the school to lawsuits.. I found it interesting that TTU doesn’t seem concerned about either. I’m not saying they’re right either... Btw, yes I am assuming the school is doing their due diligence maybe through some type of student code of conduct board...
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Dec 7, 2019 3:11:18 GMT -5
Do you understand the difference between Sexual harassment and sexual assault and assault? If you did, you wouldn’t be making these analogies. And there is no Title IX investigation to wait for. Not sure they’re is any investigation to wait for results from considering this happened in September and was reported and seemingly investigated by police then. And there were not criminal charges. What are you people waiting for exactly? My point in posting the article was to show that some schools opt to suspend players “pending” investigations... If you go back a page and follow the conversation posters were discussing due process, even you in another thread said that suspending players would open up the school to lawsuits.. I found it interesting that TTU doesn’t seem concerned about either. I’m not saying they’re right either... Btw, yes I am assuming the school is doing their due diligence maybe through some type of student code of conduct board... A Title IX investigation is a horse of a different color.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Dec 7, 2019 7:08:29 GMT -5
I'm not saying kick them off the team. All I'm saying is that the players should be suspended until we can clearly determine whether they committed the acts alleged in the TRO. We'd be screaming bloody murder if next weekend Syracuse suited up players accused of what our players are accused of. Hey, I want to see our Bball program turn around. But how will we feel if these guys suit up, play the next 2-3 games all of which we win, and then we find that they are guilty of what the women claim in the TRO. Do you know they haven’t been cleared? Has the school talked to the cops? Has DC Metto told Pat that they don’t plan to file charges? Has anyone spoken to the complainant? Did that convo lead them to understand that the remaining players’ actions were not as serious as they first seemed? Without knowledge of these issues, you can’t speculate as to whether our course of action is appropriate or not without making assumptions, and we all know how those work. #TTS
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Dec 7, 2019 7:15:27 GMT -5
Here's how Texas Tech handled a similar situation very recently, not trying to say suspending is the right way to go in anyway just giving a different account... bleacherreport.com/articles/2842779-texas-tech-suspends-forward-deshawn-corprew-after-assault-allegationsTexas Tech has suspended basketball player Deshawn Corprew after allegations of assault, according to Scott Phillips of NBC Sports.
"Once Coach Beard was made aware of Title IX allegations against Deshawn Corprew, the men’s basketball student-athlete was immediately suspended from all team activities, pending a full investigation. Further comment will be withheld until the appropriate time," the school said in a statement Monday.Corpses and LeBlanc are both off their respective teams. Not sure I see where you’re going here. Seems to me the schools each handled these situations the exact same way wrt the primary alleged offenders against whom the most serious allegations were made
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 7, 2019 7:18:15 GMT -5
We may never know the details and what went on behind the scenes, nor should we. That said, I believe the university will make a brief statement when the matter concludes.
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Post by iheartdurenbros on Dec 7, 2019 9:46:05 GMT -5
Title IX refers to the policies that the University is required to uphold and it requires all employees to uphold them. The Office of Student Conduct is charged with mediating those complaints and ensuring that the disputes between complainants and respondents are carried out so that this is a Title IX complaint. There are several other offices that provide counseling and places where confidentiality is assured so that women can decide whether to pursue a complaint. I have checked the rights of respondents and claimants and found the following things that are pertinent to this discussion: This process does not preclude police reports or criminal investigations. They are independent of the work of the Office of Student Conduct. The standard of proof required by the OSC is lower than a court of law. That is, the university can invoke disciplinary action if the evidence points to a reasonable claim. A timeframe for resolution of a case is 60 days (with time allowed for the response by the complainant; and investigation) The prior sexual history of a complainant, except that related to the respondent(s), cannot be brought as evidence. The dress of the complainant cannot be brought as evidence. The respondent has the right to continue his studies without fear of retaliation (ie, from professors, employers, and coaches) Students do not have to fear prosecution for breaking other codes of conduct, particularly regarding drugs and alcohol There will be a report issued at end of investigation and both parties have the right to appeal. This process provides both parties, particularly the complainant, rights that criminal and civil courts do not. As a woman who graduated from Georgetown 40 years ago, the various counseling services and this adjudication process would have provided me an opportunity to address several threatening situations. Placing myself in the complainant’s shoes, I would be extremely uncomfortable with the call out culture of our fans on Twitter and the media. That is me, though. She may not be reacting that way. I do know this. If the “me too” movement is to be successful, it has to move beyond righteous indignation with clear and fair adjudication processes and that ultimately includes our courts where there are so many issues regarding the admission of evidence and allowable questions. It is reassuring to see some cases move forward, but I wonder if the successful prosecution of Nassir will have much impact on the way trials of domestic violence, for instance, are heard. We have a long way to go. Probably more than anyone on this board, I have wondered how the university would handle complaints against one of our players. I even wondered whether they asked Ewing about this in his interview. Admittedly the optics of someone with his history is not good but I strongly believe in the possibility of personal transformation (and I would argue that his patronage of sex workers is fundamentally different than sexual violence) I firmly believe that he will lose his job if he fails to follow the expectations outlined by this process. So far, I am satisfied because I would ask for a process that enables all parties in the complaint to feel safe. Regarding the team, there are some things I would assume. Ewing is aware of the complaints and probably has the information provided to the complainants. He knows better than any of us the players’ side of the story. I am really not sure why everyone is assuming the one-game suspension of LeBlanc is because of this complaint. The assumption on that game day was that it was about a party he attended the night before which he posted as an IG story. (Has anyone else followed him on IG? There were several posts I found somewhat disturbing that probably were red flags). Anyway, I’m not sure why anyone assumes that questionable behavior is isolated to a few days in September or even one relationship. Ewing has the prerogative to enforce team rules. And I suspect it was related to the first rumor. And I may be one of the only fans who thought Ewing’s usage of LeBlanc this season was largely justified for basketball reasons (it was certainly arguable, but UNCG game was a bad game for LeBlanc, really truly). We know this is far from over, as we don’t know the fates of Gardner or Alexander. I found it reassuring to see the team play with a sense of relief which signifies to me acceptance by the team of these players. The ‘me too” movement has changed the conversation about sexual harassment and intimidation on campuses and that involves men discussing behavior among themselves. While we have discussed ad nauseas the impact of Akinjo’s unselfishness, no one has commented on the possibility that members of the team had issues with Josh aa well. At the very least, I can say that if players had any issue with Myron or Galen it would have been apparent. Obviously this does not preclude any possibility regarding the outcome of this investigation. They could be dismissed from school and then are subject to Ewing’s judgment regarding team rules. There are tons of possibilities that can include voluntarily leaving the program. No doubt their family and friends are watching. Much has been said about their interest in a potential suit, but they could simply encourage the students to leave. It is understandable that fans have reacted this way, but I have deep concerns about call out culture. And the media coverage has been reckless in their rush to judge the coach and university. This is especially true since the policies and procedures of the university are extremely accessible. Confidentiality and non-retaliation are the central to providing a safe space for all parties. I attach below some relevant pages. And I plan to tweak this post and send it with an introduction to Barry Svrugala and Ava Wallace. I’m open to suggestions for other reporters who need to reflect upon this. titleix.georgetown.edu/studentconduct.georgetown.edu/#_ga=2.86240664.1421557122.1575722961-77631235.1560708579
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 7, 2019 9:58:09 GMT -5
Here's how Texas Tech handled a similar situation very recently, not trying to say suspending is the right way to go in anyway just giving a different account... bleacherreport.com/articles/2842779-texas-tech-suspends-forward-deshawn-corprew-after-assault-allegationsTexas Tech has suspended basketball player Deshawn Corprew after allegations of assault, according to Scott Phillips of NBC Sports.
"Once Coach Beard was made aware of Title IX allegations against Deshawn Corprew, the men’s basketball student-athlete was immediately suspended from all team activities, pending a full investigation. Further comment will be withheld until the appropriate time," the school said in a statement Monday.Corpses and LeBlanc are both off their respective teams. Not sure I see where you’re going here. Seems to me the schools each handled these situations the exact same way wrt the primary alleged offenders against whom the most serious allegations were made How so? Corprew was suspended by TTU right away, LeBlanc transferred on his own...
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Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Dec 7, 2019 11:18:06 GMT -5
Corpses and LeBlanc are both off their respective teams. Not sure I see where you’re going here. Seems to me the schools each handled these situations the exact same way wrt the primary alleged offenders against whom the most serious allegations were made How so? Corprew was suspended by TTU right away, LeBlanc transferred on his own...I'm not so sure LeBlanc transferred on his own. Based on the original release, my original thought was there was suspensions for the season given out to the player(s) and in disagreement they opted to transfer. I ran that scenario by people I know who have worked at D1 program Compliance Offices, they tend to believe LeBlanc was suspended for the season and his reaction in was to transfer. I'm not saying that's absolutely how it went down but that's the feed back I got from multiple people. Otherwise why mention suspension in the original statement at all?...
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 7, 2019 11:23:19 GMT -5
How so? Corprew was suspended by TTU right away, LeBlanc transferred on his own...I'm not so sure LeBlanc transferred on his own. Based on the original release, my original thought was there was suspensions for the season given out to the player(s) and in disagreement they opted to transfer. I ran that scenario by people I know who have worked at D1 program Compliance Offices, they tend to believe LeBlanc was suspended for the season and his reaction in was to transfer. I'm not saying that's absolutely how it went down but that's the feed back I got from multiple people. Otherwise why mention suspension in the original statement at all?... The word suspension wasn’t used in the original statement or PE’s follow up statement... Check the original statement on the 1st page of this thread...
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TC
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Post by TC on Dec 7, 2019 11:24:39 GMT -5
How so? Corprew was suspended by TTU right away, LeBlanc transferred on his own...I'm not so sure LeBlanc transferred on his own. Based on the original release, my original thought was there was suspensions for the season given out to the player(s) and in disagreement they opted to transfer. I ran that scenario by people I know who have worked at D1 program Compliance Offices, they tend to believe LeBlanc was suspended for the season and his reaction in was to transfer. I'm not saying that's absolutely how it went down but that's the feed back I got from multiple people. Otherwise why mention suspension in the original statement at all?... They didn't mention suspension in the original statement whatsoever, but I agree with the assessment the compliance people gave you. That's how it read, and since they never really addressed it despite a follow-on statement, I assume it was intentional. I also kind of assume Akinjo was in the same boat and was suspended as well. No evidence of that whatsoever, but that's how the statement read.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Dec 7, 2019 11:30:40 GMT -5
I'm not so sure LeBlanc transferred on his own. Based on the original release, my original thought was there was suspensions for the season given out to the player(s) and in disagreement they opted to transfer. I ran that scenario by people I know who have worked at D1 program Compliance Offices, they tend to believe LeBlanc was suspended for the season and his reaction in was to transfer. I'm not saying that's absolutely how it went down but that's the feed back I got from multiple people. Otherwise why mention suspension in the original statement at all?... They didn't mention suspension in the original statement whatsoever, but I agree with the assessment the compliance people gave you. That's how it read, and since they never really addressed it despite a follow-on statement, I assume it was intentional. I also kind of assume Akinjo was in the same boat and was suspended as well. No evidence of that whatsoever, but that's how the statement read. Yes because they decided to transfer after this dispute before the press release went live. The assumption is they were both suspended or punished for basketball reasons and then transferred as a response to the dispute leading it to be more mutual than a simple transfer.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 7, 2019 11:36:52 GMT -5
If LeBlanc violated his restraining order, that may have sealed his fate. Guilty or not, your season is over at that point.
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Post by iheartdurenbros on Dec 7, 2019 11:45:42 GMT -5
Families of both players claim the transfers were voluntary. (There was a poster on FB who claimed that Josh’s mother said this). Lots of possible reasons for the timing but it is entirely possible that Josh removed himself before news broke. I agree the wording of the transfer announcement raises questions but in absence of other comments let’s assume it was voluntary.
I know the post I wrote was way too long to be read but the university policies are clear that no one on campus can retaliate or punish the respondent in one of these complaints until the investigation and hearing process ends.
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TC
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Post by TC on Dec 7, 2019 11:50:02 GMT -5
If LeBlanc violated his restraining order, that may have sealed his fate. Guilty or not, your season is over at that point. Except it wasn't because he played a bunch after the suspension.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 7, 2019 11:59:26 GMT -5
I wonder when the school found out. I can’t blame a kid for not wanting to stick around for the aftermath.
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Post by iheartdurenbros on Dec 7, 2019 12:11:56 GMT -5
I wonder when the school found out. I can’t blame a kid for not wanting to stick around for the aftermath. That is extremely unclear. I would expect that the complainant sought counseling and advice before writing her formal complaint or approaching DC police. For the university investigation the issuance of a formal complaint is the trigger of the investigation and subsequent hearing process.
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