hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Dec 1, 2020 11:43:59 GMT -5
Half of those we lost to graduation....pretty standard if you’re not intentionally trying to be a Debbie downer. You can pick a two year recent stretch from many programs where this is true. But Ewing is rebuilding a program. From what I have heard he was happy to let a few of those guys go. So the turnover has been in part strategic too. The most talented players (mackinjo) left for reasons out of Ewing’s control and quite frankly the backcourt wasn’t doing what Ewing wanted them to do so it wasn’t a perfect fit and he’s still looking for his players. You act like we’re losing great players, when in reality Ewing is rotating through bodies to find his guys. Sure it’s not a great environment for every amateur athlete, but it sure seems competitive. Which aims at winning. So what you’re complaining about is cosmetic, the staff has shown they’ll look under any stone if they think it’ll improve our chances to win. Lost in the focus on who graduated from the photo is the fact that it's incredibly abnormal to lose 5 players to transfer in one season (whether those are fully voluntary or otherwise because of outside circumstances). Yes, transfers are normal in this day and age, but the type of turnover we have seen under Ewing thus far is anything but normal. And, frankly, if this was happening at Syracuse or Maryland, Georgetown fans would be mocking them and their coach. The idea that "the turnover has been in part strategic" is laughable. EWING brought in all these guys who transferred. He recruited them. This is his team. Was part of his strategy to recruit 5 players who would then transfer? Saying the most talented players left "left for reasons out of Ewing’s control" is nothing but making excuses. Ewing is the head coach and CEO of the program. It's his responsibility to recruit and put together a roster that is going to play hard, and you know...stay enrolled at our university. And, thus far, his record on this has not been stellar. Ewing is not "rotating through bodies." Say what you will, but the "bodies" we have this year simply aren't as talented as the ones he had 2 years ago, or even starting last season before all the transfers happened. And the staff is looking under "stones" because we had 5 guys returning after all the transfers, and Ewing and the staff needed to scramble to put a team together. So no, this is not just a set of "cosmetic" complaints. It's early and who knows what will happen this year, but I am sick of the water carrying for the program and its leadership, when there have been real problems in the past, which need to be addressed if they continue. Frankly, if this was any other program, with a coach who wasn't a Georgetown legend, the hot seat would be extremely warm. Look, Ewing is playing 4D chess here. It’s cutting edge strategy to lose all the best players on a team mid season and end up as the worst team in the league in year four of a rebuild. I bet the people at Illinois, also in year four of a rebuild, are very jealous of our strategy here at Georgetown.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Dec 1, 2020 11:56:03 GMT -5
Lost in the focus on who graduated from the photo is the fact that it's incredibly abnormal to lose 5 players to transfer in one season (whether those are fully voluntary or otherwise because of outside circumstances). Yes, transfers are normal in this day and age, but the type of turnover we have seen under Ewing thus far is anything but normal. And, frankly, if this was happening at Syracuse or Maryland, Georgetown fans would be mocking them and their coach. The idea that "the turnover has been in part strategic" is laughable. EWING brought in all these guys who transferred. He recruited them. This is his team. Was part of his strategy to recruit 5 players who would then transfer? Saying the most talented players left "left for reasons out of Ewing’s control" is nothing but making excuses. Ewing is the head coach and CEO of the program. It's his responsibility to recruit and put together a roster that is going to play hard, and you know...stay enrolled at our university. And, thus far, his record on this has not been stellar. Ewing is not "rotating through bodies." Say what you will, but the "bodies" we have this year simply aren't as talented as the ones he had 2 years ago, or even starting last season before all the transfers happened. And the staff is looking under "stones" because we had 5 guys returning after all the transfers, and Ewing and the staff needed to scramble to put a team together. So no, this is not just a set of "cosmetic" complaints. It's early and who knows what will happen this year, but I am sick of the water carrying for the program and its leadership, when there have been real problems in the past, which need to be addressed if they continue. Frankly, if this was any other program, with a coach who wasn't a Georgetown legend, the hot seat would be extremely warm. Let's be real though. The transfers happened because of an incident that involved 3 of the players and 4 of those players hung out together. That's basically why they all left, let's not pretend otherwise. And instead of letting the legal process work itself out, some bozos leaked the info and made those kids lives miserable on campus. I agree. The incident with LeBlanc and the female student was one of the biggest, if not the biggest, factors in these guys transferring. I think the Mac/Akinjo dynamic/issues did not help the situation, but if the other issue never occurred and the team had some success last year, I think some, if not all, of these kids might still be at Georgetown and thinking about competing for a Big East championship this year.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 1, 2020 12:06:29 GMT -5
Let's be real though. The transfers happened because of an incident that involved 3 of the players and 4 of those players hung out together. That's basically why they all left, let's not pretend otherwise. And instead of letting the legal process work itself out, some bozos leaked the info and made those kids lives miserable on campus. I agree. The incident with LeBlanc and the female student was one of the biggest, if not the biggest, factors in these guys transferring. I think the Mac/Akinjo dynamic/issues did not help the situation, but if the other issue never occurred and the team had some success last year, I think some, if not all, of these kids might still be at Georgetown and thinking about competing for a Big East championship this year. This does not account for the departures of Antwan Walker, Chris Sodom, Akinjo, or McClung, whose departures had nothing to do with the LeBlanc/Gardner/Alexander situation. Granted, Walker and Sodom may have had their own problems, but again, to underscore, this is not normal. To be clear, I am not blaming Ewing for everything that happened (though as the head of the program, there has to be some accountability), but I was responding to an argument essentially saying the turnover is part of the strategy, which is absurd.
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guru
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Post by guru on Dec 1, 2020 12:40:46 GMT -5
That is a pretty damning photo. An indictment of the current state of the program. I wish it weren’t so, but it is. Half of those we lost to graduation....pretty standard if you’re not intentionally trying to be a Debbie downer. You can pick a two year recent stretch from many programs where this is true. But Ewing is rebuilding a program. From what I have heard he was happy to let a few of those guys go. So the turnover has been in part strategic too. The most talented players (mackinjo) left for reasons out of Ewing’s control and quite frankly the backcourt wasn’t doing what Ewing wanted them to do so it wasn’t a perfect fit and he’s still looking for his players. You act like we’re losing great players, when in reality Ewing is rotating through bodies to find his guys. Sure it’s not a great environment for every amateur athlete, but it sure seems competitive. Which aims at winning. So what you’re complaining about is cosmetic, the staff has shown they’ll look under any stone if they think it’ll improve our chances to win. Obviously, I'm rooting for the guy. Just doesn't seem to be much stability to the program - I hope all your positive takes on it are correct. We are 4 years into this, however, and the long-awaited rebuild remains on very shaky ground.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Dec 1, 2020 12:41:44 GMT -5
I agree. The incident with LeBlanc and the female student was one of the biggest, if not the biggest, factors in these guys transferring. I think the Mac/Akinjo dynamic/issues did not help the situation, but if the other issue never occurred and the team had some success last year, I think some, if not all, of these kids might still be at Georgetown and thinking about competing for a Big East championship this year. This does not account for the departures of Antwan Walker, Chris Sodom, Akinjo, or McClung, whose departures had nothing to do with the LeBlanc/Gardner/Alexander situation. Granted, Walker and Sodom may have had their own problems, but again, to underscore, this is not normal. To be clear, I am not blaming Ewing for everything that happened (though as the head of the program, there has to be some accountability), but I was responding to an argument essentially saying the turnover is part of the strategy, which is absurd. I don't think the turnover is part of any strategy. Ewing recruited these players and I am sure he wished it worked out for all of them at Georgetown. I would also agree that the amount of turnover over the last few years is not normal, even in today's college basketball landscape. If you lose one, or possibly two players, a year because of playing time/fit issues then that can be understood and explained these days. The number of kids who have left Georgetown lately is beyond that. I just think the incident with LeBlanc and the other student was a big factor in those players leaving. That incident does not explain Akinjo and Mac leaving but I think it is has been pretty widely reported that those two guys did not co-exist well. this is clearly not a good situation going on lately for the Hoyas, but hopefully they can overcome these recent transfers and move the program back in the right direction soon.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by guru on Dec 1, 2020 12:44:21 GMT -5
Half of those we lost to graduation....pretty standard if you’re not intentionally trying to be a Debbie downer. You can pick a two year recent stretch from many programs where this is true. But Ewing is rebuilding a program. From what I have heard he was happy to let a few of those guys go. So the turnover has been in part strategic too. The most talented players (mackinjo) left for reasons out of Ewing’s control and quite frankly the backcourt wasn’t doing what Ewing wanted them to do so it wasn’t a perfect fit and he’s still looking for his players. You act like we’re losing great players, when in reality Ewing is rotating through bodies to find his guys. Sure it’s not a great environment for every amateur athlete, but it sure seems competitive. Which aims at winning. So what you’re complaining about is cosmetic, the staff has shown they’ll look under any stone if they think it’ll improve our chances to win. Lost in the focus on who graduated from the photo is the fact that it's incredibly abnormal to lose 5 players to transfer in one season (whether those are fully voluntary or otherwise because of outside circumstances). Yes, transfers are normal in this day and age, but the type of turnover we have seen under Ewing thus far is anything but normal. And, frankly, if this was happening at Syracuse or Maryland, Georgetown fans would be mocking them and their coach. The idea that "the turnover has been in part strategic" is laughable. EWING brought in all these guys who transferred. He recruited them. This is his team. Was part of his strategy to recruit 5 players who would then transfer? Saying the most talented players left "left for reasons out of Ewing’s control" is nothing but making excuses. Ewing is the head coach and CEO of the program. It's his responsibility to recruit and put together a roster that is going to play hard, and you know...stay enrolled at our university. And, thus far, his record on this has not been stellar. Ewing is not "rotating through bodies." Say what you will, but the "bodies" we have this year simply aren't as talented as the ones he had 2 years ago, or even starting last season before all the transfers happened. And the staff is looking under "stones" because we had 5 guys returning after all the transfers, and Ewing and the staff needed to scramble to put a team together. So no, this is not just a set of "cosmetic" complaints. It's early and who knows what will happen this year, but I am sick of the water carrying for the program and its leadership, when there have been real problems in the past, which need to be addressed if they continue. Frankly, if this was any other program, with a coach who wasn't a Georgetown legend, the hot seat would be extremely warm. I don't disagree, but this take from a dyed-in-the-wool JT3 supporter is all kinds of ironic. Applying measurements here that were completely ignored when JT3 was the one whose seat was getting warm...
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Post by practice on Dec 1, 2020 12:53:55 GMT -5
Not to hijack this thread. Only here would alarm bells ring about potential transfers after one game against UMBC! Give me a break. The stunning amount of navel gazing never ceases to amaze. Now on the topic of transfers, according to the NCAA (https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2020-01-17/new-data-suggests-transfers-division-i-mens-basketball-have), D1 Men's Teams (total 347) had 689 transfers in 2017, 704 in 2018 and 694 in 2019. And, from the article:
"Just check out these basic numbers from 2019 to 2018:
Number of teams that didn’t have any player transfer: 58 in 2019, 59 in 2018.
Number of teams with one: 93, 94.
Number of teams with two: 90, 78.
Number of teams with three: 58, 55.
Number of teams with four: 29, 43.
Number of teams with five: 23, 22."
Those numbers are stunning ... in 2018, almost 19% of D1 Men's teams had at least 4 players transfer!
In the case of the 2020-21 Hoyas, we have 5 freshmen ... I hope they all turn into all time great Hoyas ... but in reality, Sibley is probably the least likely to transfer.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 1, 2020 13:05:46 GMT -5
I don't disagree, but this take from a dyed-in-the-wool JT3 supporter is all kinds of ironic. Applying measurements here that were completely ignored when JT3 was the one whose seat was getting warm... Hey, I happily admit to supporting JT3 back then. JT3 was fired following 2 bad seasons and losing one good recruit (or, 3 of 4 bad seasons, if you go further back), even though he had previously made the tournament 8 times, including a 4 seed two years before being fired. Once Ewing posts such accomplishments, I am happy to accord him the same deference. Instead, we are looking at an almost-certain 4 years without being in the NCAA tournament, possibly two sub .500 seasons in a row, and massive roster turnover along the way, and the coaching seat isn't even remotely warm. So, yeah, I do see some double standards...
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 1, 2020 13:12:39 GMT -5
I agree. The incident with LeBlanc and the female student was one of the biggest, if not the biggest, factors in these guys transferring. I think the Mac/Akinjo dynamic/issues did not help the situation, but if the other issue never occurred and the team had some success last year, I think some, if not all, of these kids might still be at Georgetown and thinking about competing for a Big East championship this year. This does not account for the departures of Antwan Walker, Chris Sodom, Akinjo, or McClung, whose departures had nothing to do with the LeBlanc/Gardner/Alexander situation. Granted, Walker and Sodom may have had their own problems, but again, to underscore, this is not normal. To be clear, I am not blaming Ewing for everything that happened (though as the head of the program, there has to be some accountability), but I was responding to an argument essentially saying the turnover is part of the strategy, which is absurd. Akinjo and LeBlanc left on the same day/time. that was a package decision by friends. Walker and Sodom were basically both kicked off the team for "off court incidents". It's not like they wanted to leave. Who knows why Mac left but the cupboard was bare at that point and in rebuilding mode. He had a chance to upgrade teams (Top 10 team in Texas Tech) and increase his youtube brand so from a logical standpoint it made sense.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 14:04:16 GMT -5
Not to hijack this thread. Only here would alarm bells ring about potential transfers after one game against UMBC! Give me a break. The stunning amount of navel gazing never ceases to amaze. Now on the topic of transfers, according to the NCAA (https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2020-01-17/new-data-suggests-transfers-division-i-mens-basketball-have), D1 Men's Teams (total 347) had 689 transfers in 2017, 704 in 2018 and 694 in 2019. And, from the article: "Just check out these basic numbers from 2019 to 2018: Number of teams that didn’t have any player transfer: 58 in 2019, 59 in 2018. Number of teams with one: 93, 94. Number of teams with two: 90, 78. Number of teams with three: 58, 55. Number of teams with four: 29, 43. Number of teams with five: 23, 22." Those numbers are stunning ... in 2018, almost 19% of D1 Men's teams had at least 4 players transfer! In the case of the 2020-21 Hoyas, we have 5 freshmen ... I hope they all turn into all time great Hoyas ... but in reality, Sibley is probably the least likely to transfer. So about 7% of D1 programs had 5 transfers? That's just not normal!
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 1, 2020 14:13:37 GMT -5
Not to hijack this thread. Only here would alarm bells ring about potential transfers after one game against UMBC! Give me a break. The stunning amount of navel gazing never ceases to amaze. Now on the topic of transfers, according to the NCAA (https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2020-01-17/new-data-suggests-transfers-division-i-mens-basketball-have), D1 Men's Teams (total 347) had 689 transfers in 2017, 704 in 2018 and 694 in 2019. And, from the article: "Just check out these basic numbers from 2019 to 2018: Number of teams that didn’t have any player transfer: 58 in 2019, 59 in 2018. Number of teams with one: 93, 94. Number of teams with two: 90, 78. Number of teams with three: 58, 55. Number of teams with four: 29, 43. Number of teams with five: 23, 22." Those numbers are stunning ... in 2018, almost 19% of D1 Men's teams had at least 4 players transfer! In the case of the 2020-21 Hoyas, we have 5 freshmen ... I hope they all turn into all time great Hoyas ... but in reality, Sibley is probably the least likely to transfer. So about 7% of D1 programs had 5 transfers? That's just not normal! I would also bet that if you looked at the details, many of the programs with the 4/5 transfers had coaching changes. It's common for a roster to change significantly when there is a coaching change. I bet in situations where there is no change, it's way less than 7%.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 1, 2020 14:19:53 GMT -5
So about 7% of D1 programs had 5 transfers? That's just not normal! I would also bet that if you looked at the details, many of the programs with the 4/5 transfers had coaching changes. It's common for a roster to change significantly when there is a coaching change. I bet in situations where there is no change, it's way less than 7%. And what's the % when there's a situation where there's a major scandal that involves 4 players, with three being in a legal quagmire from the same incident?
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Post by practice on Dec 1, 2020 14:27:56 GMT -5
I would also bet that if you looked at the details, many of the programs with the 4/5 transfers had coaching changes. It's common for a roster to change significantly when there is a coaching change. I bet in situations where there is no change, it's way less than 7%. And what's the % when there's a situation where there's a major scandal that involves 4 players, with three being in a legal quagmire from the same incident? I'm not sure ... but I've read if HoyaTalk is involved the likelihood of massive departures shoots through the roof.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoya9797 on Dec 1, 2020 14:53:08 GMT -5
I would also bet that if you looked at the details, many of the programs with the 4/5 transfers had coaching changes. It's common for a roster to change significantly when there is a coaching change. I bet in situations where there is no change, it's way less than 7%. And what's the % when there's a situation where there's a major scandal that involves 4 players, with three being in a legal quagmire from the same incident? I wonder how many coaches that oversaw a season with a “major scandal” and the departure of five guys would be as secure in his job as our coach? Especially if his record was as terrible as our coach’s record.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 1, 2020 15:12:47 GMT -5
I would also bet that if you looked at the details, many of the programs with the 4/5 transfers had coaching changes. It's common for a roster to change significantly when there is a coaching change. I bet in situations where there is no change, it's way less than 7%. And what's the % when there's a situation where there's a major scandal that involves 4 players, with three being in a legal quagmire from the same incident? That is fair. Ultimately, I think what it comes down to, is whether we can keep a solid, consistent roster going forward. Transfers will happen no matter who is the coach (and if players don't have to sit out, it'll really get wild), but unless it's a small number, and not our top talent, it'll be hard for us to get out of the basement of the Big East. All that said, to bring it back to Sibley, let's hope we see him soon!
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 1, 2020 18:13:01 GMT -5
And what's the % when there's a situation where there's a major scandal that involves 4 players, with three being in a legal quagmire from the same incident? That is fair. Ultimately, I think what it comes down to, is whether we can keep a solid, consistent roster going forward. Transfers will happen no matter who is the coach (and if players don't have to sit out, it'll really get wild), but unless it's a small number, and not our top talent, it'll be hard for us to get out of the basement of the Big East. All that said, to bring it back to Sibley, let's hope we see him soon! I think if you look at Gordon Heyward moving on from Celtics, some could look at that as an indictment of Brad Stevens. His own college player leaving him. Oh, he failed! how embarrassing. But really, circumstances changes, and the player and the coach for that matter (when Stevens left Butler) have to do what makes the most sense for themselves. Now that doesn't always happen. I think Galen and Myron didnt' do what was in their best interests but just kind of followed the crowd (Mac, Akinjo, LeBlanc who were able to parlay the move into what could be considered an upgrade in situation)
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95hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by 95hoya on Dec 1, 2020 23:11:42 GMT -5
If you can't get minutes on a roster like this, it's a huge red flag.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Dec 2, 2020 6:44:32 GMT -5
If you can't get minutes on a roster like this, it's a huge red flag. This entire team is a huge red flag right now
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Post by madgesdiqgu on Dec 2, 2020 8:42:11 GMT -5
If you can't get minutes on a roster like this, it's a huge red flag. This entire team is a huge red flag right now more like a white flag.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Dec 2, 2020 16:02:51 GMT -5
Jamari has a foot injury. That's why he hasn't played
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