DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 10, 2019 12:05:21 GMT -5
Georgetown's is less than half any of them. That's a huge, huge difference. I'm not making a value judgment about whether we are really shooting above our weight given our historic antipathy to fundraising, our liberal arts background, etc, etc. It is what it is. And what it is is not likely going to meaningfully change -- at least anytime soon. All of those schools presumably are fundraising competently at present, getting nice returns on their money, etc. Georgetown gets a healthy return on its assets as well--basic principles of fund management are not a trade secret. Georgetown's problem was that it started serious fundraising only 30 years ago. Harvard already had $1 billion in the investment bank when Georgetown was chugging along at $20-25 million. The Jesuits are not a mendicant order but their approach to fundraising sometimes looked that way. Short of a Woodruff or Bloomberg-sized gift, the time value of money always wins--and Georgetown has no person in its pool of donors with that kind of transformative touch. In case one wonders about such things, Georgetown is 141st in endowment per student, just ahead of Gallaudet and half that of Colgate. Then again, Harvard's endowment per student is just one half that of Princeton. www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/EndowmentPerStudent
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Sept 10, 2019 13:08:48 GMT -5
Question
With the endowment problems all of you specify, how it is that our Board of Directors can be seriously discussing paying out slavery reparations that in the absence of a Woodruff or Bloomberg benefactor would either have to be financed by future tuition dollars of a financially pressured upper middle class that is turning away from us or from our wholly inadequate endowment?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Sept 10, 2019 13:20:31 GMT -5
Question With the endowment problems all of you specify, how it is that our Board of Directors can be seriously discussing paying out slavery reparations that in the absence of a Woodruff or Bloomberg benefactor would either have to be financed by future tuition dollars of a financially pressured upper middle class that is turning away from us or from our wholly inadequate endowment? Two words: Liberal Guilt
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Sept 10, 2019 13:30:23 GMT -5
Question With the endowment problems all of you specify, how it is that our Board of Directors can be seriously discussing paying out slavery reparations that in the absence of a Woodruff or Bloomberg benefactor would either have to be financed by future tuition dollars of a financially pressured upper middle class that is turning away from us or from our wholly inadequate endowment? Are you referring to the reparations fund that the students voted for, which would be funded by an increase in tuition? Or is there some other reparations payment that will need to be sourced from somewhere else?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Sept 10, 2019 13:47:09 GMT -5
Question With the endowment problems all of you specify, how it is that our Board of Directors can be seriously discussing paying out slavery reparations that in the absence of a Woodruff or Bloomberg benefactor would either have to be financed by future tuition dollars of a financially pressured upper middle class that is turning away from us or from our wholly inadequate endowment? Are you referring to the reparations fund that the students voted for, which would be funded by an increase in tuition? Or is there some other reparations payment that will need to be sourced from somewhere else? That the students magnanimously voted for their parents to pay... Good Lord, I weep for America
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 10, 2019 15:30:12 GMT -5
Question With the endowment problems all of you specify, how it is that our Board of Directors can be seriously discussing paying out slavery reparations that in the absence of a Woodruff or Bloomberg benefactor would either have to be financed by future tuition dollars of a financially pressured upper middle class that is turning away from us or from our wholly inadequate endowment? The BOD tabled that request from the students. Granted, Georgetown has conflated the slavery issue well beyond its institutional responsibility, but I'll save that discussion for another time.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Sept 10, 2019 15:38:42 GMT -5
Question With the endowment problems all of you specify, how it is that our Board of Directors can be seriously discussing paying out slavery reparations that in the absence of a Woodruff or Bloomberg benefactor would either have to be financed by future tuition dollars of a financially pressured upper middle class that is turning away from us or from our wholly inadequate endowment? The BOD tabled that request from the students. Granted, Georgetown has conflated the slavery issue well beyond its institutional responsibility, but I'll save that discussion for another time. Hopefully by “tabled” you mean ashcanned.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Sept 10, 2019 23:01:26 GMT -5
The BOD tabled that request from the students. Granted, Georgetown has conflated the slavery issue well beyond its institutional responsibility, but I'll save that discussion for another time. Hopefully by “tabled” you mean ashcanned. Well we hope for plenty of things to be ashcanned, like you on this board for example, but we can't always get what we want.
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Post by reformation on Sept 11, 2019 0:29:01 GMT -5
Back to the ranking discussion. The admin has complaints/arguments about the low endowment and its maxim that we punch above our weight are true in a strict sense but now these arguments are decades old. At some point one has to take responsibility for some of the shortcomings.
Part though obviously not all of the issue re the endowment vs other schools that have raised money more recently is that the projects that Gtwn raises money for frequently are not ones supporting world class academic or corporate related research. World class research programs are the ones that will garner top endowment support. Also strategically Gtwn has largely missed on the whole growth of big data/comp sci/AI etc despite senior faculty urgings more than a decade ago to make major investments in the area, especially being in the heart of an area filled with that kind of talent. The Govt dept(one of Gtwns strengths) totally missed the quant move in pol sci. Many schools are raising big endowment $ for programs in Neuroscience for ex--Gtwn is nowhere to be found despite being in an area with enormous talent. These are just a few examples of a lack of vision/focus.
As far as academic reputation goes among other universities Gtwn is viewed I think as producing smart well rounded undergraduates with shortcomings in quant preparation. The academic program is not perceived to be very rigorous and has a lot of grade inflation---that being said I think most people perceive that it is a very difficult school to get in (undergrad) which carries some reputation benefits. This aspect of academic reputation(more rigorous academic program and less grade inflation) is not an endowment thing: its really an issue of focus and leadership on senior admin. Also the low endowment per student is probably greatly exacerbated by the proliferation of a lot of marginal grad masters programs(a few are very good e.g security studies while many are pretty much viewed as profit activities vs serious academic programs.
I agree as others have said that the SFS is still widely considered to be elite. However to be considered a top university we need to bring more to the table. One of my best friends (Stanford grad)/NYU Law) living in bay area, silicon valley VC exec recently toured the campus with his son. Both's impression was that Gtwn a good place if you want to work in Govt, otherwise not so much--in their impression whole focus of gtwn's pitch was govt. Obviously we might view things differently, but this is I think an increasingly predominant view by many constituencies.
Obviously Gtwn has a lot of unique strengths which we all know. I think a lot of its issues are not just the result of immutable structural impediments, but the lack of dynamic and focused leadership and vision, which are correctable.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Sept 11, 2019 4:09:53 GMT -5
Great points. Lack of leadership and vision is not easily correctable, I think. It’s not like a private equity firm is going to come in and gut the place and insert new management and direction. We can’t pivot quickly and folks in charge aren’t going to readily admit mistakes were made and that they made them.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Sept 11, 2019 7:25:40 GMT -5
Hopefully by “tabled” you mean ashcanned. Well we hope for plenty of things to be ashcanned, like you on this board for example, but we can't always get what we want. Ah the free and open exchange of ideas... Have a great day and Go Hoyas!!!
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 11, 2019 7:47:50 GMT -5
Also the low endowment per student is probably greatly exacerbated by the proliferation of a lot of marginal grad masters programs(a few are very good e.g security studies while many are pretty much viewed as profit activities vs serious academic programs. To that point, I found this stat on the Georgetown Office of Assessment and Decision Support page which I found very surprising. It's the percentage of degrees awarded in 2017-18. Bachelor's degrees: 27% of total Master's degrees: 59%Professional degrees (MD, JD): 12% Ph.D.: 2% oads.georgetown.edu/
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Sept 11, 2019 8:07:20 GMT -5
There is a college recruitment program called Exploring College Options, which involves Duke, Georgetown, Harvard, Penn and Stanford. The five schools give presentations to high school students around the country looking at competitive options. I hope we remain worthy of our company.
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Sept 11, 2019 8:18:09 GMT -5
Just surfed Amazon and looked at the new Princeton Review Complete Guide to Colleges. We have been elevated to its highest numerical selectivity ranking of 99 with the Columbias and Harvards of the world. So maybe all is not lost. While this index does not have US News type visibility, it is seen by a lot of folks.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Sept 11, 2019 8:26:17 GMT -5
Just surfed Amazon and looked at the new Princeton Review Complete Guide to Colleges. We have been elevated us its highest numerical selectivity ranking of 99 with the Columbias and Harvards of the world. So maybe all is not lost. While this index does not have US News type visibility, it is seen by a lot of folks. Had an interesting conversation with the parents of one of my daighter’s Schoolmates who is a HS Senior at a highly regarded All Girls school in suburban Philly. When they talked about colleges, they mentioned a few and Inasked about a Georgetown. The response was “we took the tour; it is gorgeous; we loved it, but we know she can’t get in” Interesting take from a non-affiliated family.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Sept 11, 2019 9:17:17 GMT -5
Georgetown fared well with high school counselors, which was dropped as an input this year. They opted for peer assessment data.
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DallasHoya
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Post by DallasHoya on Sept 11, 2019 11:21:28 GMT -5
Just surfed Amazon and looked at the new Princeton Review Complete Guide to Colleges. We have been elevated us its highest numerical selectivity ranking of 99 with the Columbias and Harvards of the world. So maybe all is not lost. While this index does not have US News type visibility, it is seen by a lot of folks. Had an interesting conversation with the parents of one of my daighter’s Schoolmates who is a HS Senior at a highly regarded All Girls school in suburban Philly. When they talked about colleges, they mentioned a few and Inasked about a Georgetown. The response was “we took the tour; it is gorgeous; we loved it, but we know she can’t get in” Interesting take from a non-affiliated family. Another interesting take from an affiliated family - an alum I know had a daughter who was ranked #2 in her class at one of the state's best public high schools, close to perfect board scores, national merit scholar, four year varsity athlete, etc. Got letters from Princeton, Cal Tech and literally dozens of others asking her to apply and some offering full rides. Nada from her father's alma mater.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Sept 11, 2019 15:10:46 GMT -5
Maybe the school was focused on yield, which is another ranking factor. Reject top candidates who you believe will not matriculate.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Sept 11, 2019 22:15:49 GMT -5
*sigh* Ok, first and most obvious comment that requires a standalone response of its own: these types are ratings are US News sole remaining business model, and they intentionally make the ratings change slightly but not too much every year, just to continue generating this sort of debate and therefore continued cultural relevance. It's fine and can be entertaining to play that game - Lord knows I've done enough of it, and am apparently about to again in this thread, but... let's understand that ultimately, we're the ones being played.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Sept 12, 2019 11:53:01 GMT -5
There is a college recruitment program called Exploring College Options, which involves Duke, Georgetown, Harvard, Penn and Stanford. The five schools give presentations to high school students around the country looking at competitive options. I hope we remain worthy of our company. I have been to many of these sessions. Harvard, of course, garners the most interest in the question period after the formal talks. But Georgetown does take its share of interest. Yes, I hope we continue this program.
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