ksf42001
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 901
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Post by ksf42001 on Sept 4, 2019 20:46:13 GMT -5
Let me guess, someone from the National Weather Service has a chart that this person says was altered Yes, that is true. The "chart" you speak of is updated every 3 hours by the National Hurricane Center once a storm reaches Tropical Depression. They are publicly available at all times. I'll link you to the archive for Dorian that shows every update through the lifecycle of Dorian (it's even animated). www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2019/DORIAN_graphics.php?product=5day_cone_with_line_and_windNone of the official NHC updates were modified with sharpie to show a random bubble protruding from the standard 5-day cone and reaching Alabama. Also, just so we're clear, when Trump was tweeting that Alabama was at risk from Dorian, this was the most recent NHC chart released for Dorian: Would you be worried in Alabama after seeing that storm track? Source - Me. I work in Emergency Management.
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Sept 4, 2019 22:42:14 GMT -5
This is soft copy. How does it relate to the hard copy document Trump had in his office? Are they related at all? Can someone show a direct link? Were these images the specific ones used in the Presidential briefings?
The story is that as a definitive fact Trump altered a hard copy map. There is no evidence of that. There is only a picture of a storm.
Surely, with all the people in the situation rooms with Trump from state offices, FEMA, the Coast Guard, NOAA etc. someone can very easily come forward and clear all this up
and say that Trump's hard copy map is an alteration. Of all those people from all those agencies, surely some enterprising reporter out to keep the good name of his/her news organization can get someone on the record to say that the hard copy map(s) used in the Trump briefings were altered by the President.
All that is alleged could be very true or it could be not true at all. But we will never know until someone backs up the statement of definitive fact which has been reported.
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Sept 4, 2019 22:50:16 GMT -5
And if LT CDR Jones of the Coast Guard, or Assistant FEMA Director Johnson says that the hard copy map Trump used today was an altered fabrication, I will accept the story as true in a nanosecond and condemn Trump.
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Sept 4, 2019 22:59:45 GMT -5
I would even accept a statement on the record that the President appeared to be mixed up in his perceptions or seemed to get it wrong or something like that.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 0:55:54 GMT -5
I would even accept a statement on the record that the President appeared to be mixed up in his perceptions or seemed to get it wrong or something like that. The maps aren't top secret. They are on the NHC weblink KSF put in his response to you. Here it is again. It's animated so you can see every update, and it's directly from the NHC website. Here is the WH release from Aug 30th briefing showing the same map the President provided today without the sharpie. Look at the pictures. The map the President presented as proof he was right was made on Aug 28th. He wasn't even briefed until Aug 30th, and at the bottom below the graphic is a disclaimer that says, It's clear to any objective observer that the President got it wrong. It happens, people get stuff wrong. The reason why it's still a story is because he (or his staff) refuses to accept reality and are willing to go to every length imaginable to make it seem like he was right. To be fair this seems to happen a lot and they don't appear to be the only ones who are unwilling to accept reality. www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-defends-alabama-forecast-using-old-dorian-map-with-disclaimer
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ksf42001
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 901
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Post by ksf42001 on Sept 5, 2019 7:03:48 GMT -5
I would even accept a statement on the record that the President appeared to be mixed up in his perceptions or seemed to get it wrong or something like that. Exactly 20 minutes after Trump's original Alabama tweet, the National Weather Service Birmingham office twitter account was very clear in stating that Alabama was NOT at risk (you can find the NWS tweet earlier in this thread). It's an official federal government twitter account. Why is that not sufficient for you?
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,201
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Post by hoya9797 on Sept 5, 2019 7:26:59 GMT -5
I think that when trump finally decides to shoot someone on 5th Ave, HH1979 won’t believe it happened unless he’s the guy who got shot. And, even then, I think he’ll find a way to excuse trump.
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Sept 5, 2019 19:30:36 GMT -5
A rear admiral in the Coast Guard who briefed President Trump on Hurricane Dorian is defending the commander in chief amid backlash for his claims that the storm might hit Alabama. In a statement disseminated by the White House on Thursday, homeland security and counterterrorism adviser Peter Brown argued the president was correct in addressing the "potential impact" on several states, including Alabama. "As the Homeland Security and Counterterrorism Advisor, I briefed President Donald J. Trump multiple times concerning the position, forecast, risks, and Federal Government preparations for and response to Hurricane Dorian," his statement read. "I showed the President the official National Hurricane Center forecast, which included the 'cone' that projects the potential path of the eye of the storm. The president and I also reviewed other products, including multiple meteorological models (often called the 'spaghetti models') and graphics that displayed the time of onset and geographical range of tropical storm force winds, storm surge, and rainfall. These products showed possible storm impacts well outside the official forecast cone." "While speaking to the press on Sunday, September 1, the President address Hurricane Dorian and its potential impact on multiple states, including Alabama. The President's comments were based on that morning's Hurricane Dorian briefing, which included the possibility of tropical storm force winds in southeastern Alabama," Brown said. "In fact, from the evening of Tuesday, August 27, until the morning of Monday, September 2, forecasts from the National Hurricane Center showed the possibility of tropical storm force winds hitting parts of Alabama." ON THE RECORDWill this be reported by the MSNBCs and the like? www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/coast-guard-rear-admiral-defends-trump-from-storm-of-backlash-after-alabama-forecast
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ksf42001
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 901
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Post by ksf42001 on Sept 5, 2019 20:09:34 GMT -5
A rear admiral in the Coast Guard who briefed President Trump on Hurricane Dorian is defending the commander in chief amid backlash for his claims that the storm might hit Alabama. In a statement disseminated by the White House on Thursday, homeland security and counterterrorism adviser Peter Brown argued the president was correct in addressing the "potential impact" on several states, including Alabama. "As the Homeland Security and Counterterrorism Advisor, I briefed President Donald J. Trump multiple times concerning the position, forecast, risks, and Federal Government preparations for and response to Hurricane Dorian," his statement read. "I showed the President the official National Hurricane Center forecast, which included the 'cone' that projects the potential path of the eye of the storm. The president and I also reviewed other products, including multiple meteorological models (often called the 'spaghetti models') and graphics that displayed the time of onset and geographical range of tropical storm force winds, storm surge, and rainfall. These products showed possible storm impacts well outside the official forecast cone." "While speaking to the press on Sunday, September 1, the President address Hurricane Dorian and its potential impact on multiple states, including Alabama. The President's comments were based on that morning's Hurricane Dorian briefing, which included the possibility of tropical storm force winds in southeastern Alabama," Brown said. "In fact, from the evening of Tuesday, August 27, until the morning of Monday, September 2, forecasts from the National Hurricane Center showed the possibility of tropical storm force winds hitting parts of Alabama." Again, the Birmingham NWS office was ON THE RECORD saying Trump was wrong 20 minutes after he said Alabama was at risk, but good job ignoring that. Also, Brown is 100% correct, but what does that actually mean in practice. Let's focus on this part, as it's key to what Trump tweeted: "While speaking to the press on Sunday, September 1, the President address Hurricane Dorian and its potential impact on multiple states, including Alabama. The President's comments were based on that morning's Hurricane Dorian briefing, which included the possibility of tropical storm force winds in southeastern Alabama" Luckily, since it's publicly available. I have that exact September morning tropical storm force winds probabilities chart, see below: Brown is 100% correct that a sliver of SE Alabama had 5 to 10% chance of experiencing tropical storm force winds. With that information in hand, these are the exact words Trump tweeted: "In addition to Florida - South Carolina, North Carolina, Georgia, and Alabama, will most likely be hit (much) harder than anticipated. Looking like one of the largest hurricanes ever. Already category 5. BE CAREFUL! GOD BLESS EVERYONE!" Please reconcile that chart to that tweet. How will Alabama, with a 5-10% chance of tropical storm winds and a 0% chance of Hurricane force winds, "most likely be hit (much) harder than anticipated". Over the course of Trump's defense, we've moved from Alabama WAS most likely to be hit by a hurricane (>74mph) to SE Alabama having a 5-10% chance of experiencing tropical force winds (>39mph). Is this really the hill you want to die on. If it didn't convince the Birmingham NWS office (ON THE RECORD) 20 minutes after Trump tweeted it, why does it convince you 4 days later?
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Sept 5, 2019 20:12:22 GMT -5
My two star admiral was in the room with the principal. Your "Birmingham Office" was not. Can you prove that this soft copy was even used at the briefings of the President. What relevance does it have when we have first hand testament by the person who did the briefing?
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Sept 5, 2019 20:19:04 GMT -5
It’s 9:00 pm. Don’t bother HH1979 during Hannity. He needs to be fed answers to your questions.
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ksf42001
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 901
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Post by ksf42001 on Sept 5, 2019 20:25:51 GMT -5
Can you prove that this soft copy was even used at the briefings of the President. What relevance does it have when we have first hand testament by the person who did the briefing? I'm curious what secret weather forecast you think the president is using instead of the National Weather Service. The "soft copy" you're deriding matches exactly with the "first hand testament", but the "first hand testament" just conveniently leaves out what the actual percentage chance of Tropical Storm Winds were. Just to repeat, they were 5-10%, even though Trump's tweet definitely said "most likely". Again, please try and reconcile how the tweet matches up with a 5-10% chance of only tropical storm force winds (not even Hurricane force).
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Sept 5, 2019 20:31:25 GMT -5
You guys never give up. I think I will be reading about some study that proves Coast Guard officers lie more than average people or use black blotchy pens more on average than other people.
By the way, I have never seen Hannity have to eat a story like Lawrence O'Donnell did last week. He is a lot closer to Howard K Smith and Edward R. Murrow than many commentators you could mention.
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Sept 5, 2019 20:36:45 GMT -5
Can you prove that this soft copy was even used at the briefings of the President. What relevance does it have when we have first hand testament by the person who did the briefing? I'm curious what secret weather forecast you think the president is using instead of the National Weather Service. The "soft copy" you're deriding matches exactly with the "first hand testament", but the "first hand testament" just conveniently leaves out what the actual percentage chance of Tropical Storm Winds were. Just to repeat, they were 5-10%, even though Trump's tweet definitely said "most likely". Again, please try and reconcile how the tweet matches up with a 5-10% chance of only tropical storm force winds (not even Hurricane force). I take the word of the Expert who did the briefing. What media he used is of no interest to me.
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ksf42001
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 901
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Post by ksf42001 on Sept 5, 2019 20:38:17 GMT -5
You guys never give up. I think I will be reading about some study that proves Coast Guard officers lie more than average people or use black blotchy pens more on average than other people. By the way, I have never seen Hannity have to eat a story like Lawrence O'Donnell did last week. He is a lot closer to Howard K Smith and Edward R. Murrow than many commentators you could mention. I never said Coast Guard officers lie, I just pointed out he definitely left out some very important facts. Again you avoided answering my questions. Why do you always avoid actually answering my questions? Also, please note that Lawrence O'Donnell admitted he was wrong and apologized. When will Hannity apologize to Seth Rich's family for weeks of spreading lies and conspiracy theories about his murder without any evidence or basis in fact?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 20:40:50 GMT -5
😂😂😂 I’ll just assume you’re trolling at this point. One thing for sure is Trump can always find someone willing to beclown themselves in order to prove their loyalty to him.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,242
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Post by prhoya on Sept 5, 2019 20:42:02 GMT -5
You guys never give up. I think I will be reading about some study that proves Coast Guard officers lie more than average people or use black blotchy pens more on average than other people. By the way, I have never seen Hannity have to eat a story like Lawrence O'Donnell did last week. He is a lot closer to Howard K Smith and Edward R. Murrow than many commentators you could mention. I’m calling BS on your Hannity watch. Btw, you’re the only one defending Trump’s sharpie-version of the NWS official report.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,242
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Post by prhoya on Sept 5, 2019 20:43:47 GMT -5
I'm curious what secret weather forecast you think the president is using instead of the National Weather Service. The "soft copy" you're deriding matches exactly with the "first hand testament", but the "first hand testament" just conveniently leaves out what the actual percentage chance of Tropical Storm Winds were. Just to repeat, they were 5-10%, even though Trump's tweet definitely said "most likely". Again, please try and reconcile how the tweet matches up with a 5-10% chance of only tropical storm force winds (not even Hurricane force). I take the word of the Expert who did the briefing. What media he used is of no interest to me. A rear admiral is not a weather expert. Again, it’s a violation of the US Code to alter a weather report.
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Sept 5, 2019 20:44:16 GMT -5
Perhaps if the guy showed you all the spaghetti models they used we could clear this up, but we aren't going to obtain them and I for one have things to do, people to see and places to go.
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ksf42001
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 901
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Post by ksf42001 on Sept 5, 2019 20:45:47 GMT -5
😂😂😂 I’ll just assume you’re trolling at this point. One thing for sure is Trump can always find someone willing to beclown themselves in order to prove their loyalty to him. Agreed, he can't be real at this point. If real, this is the saddest debasement I've ever seen...time to move on...
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