rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on May 15, 2020 10:48:49 GMT -5
Stop recruiting top 20 players. This isn’t the law of averages; the program will not land a kid like this in the current state. Good thing that’s not true.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on May 15, 2020 11:00:47 GMT -5
Stop recruiting top 20 players. This isn’t the law of averages; the program will not land a kid like this in the current state. I don't think you ever stop recruiting top 20 players, you just need to be very selective about which ones you devote time and resources to trying to recruit them. In the case of Holmgren it seems like he has been very receptive to the recruiting pitch that Ewing is giving to him, so you stay on him until it becomes obvious he is not going to commit to Georgetown. If you can get a positive response, or have some type of "connection" (through family or some other type of existing relationship), then you continue to pursue these highly rated kids, but if you don't get an early feel that they are going to be genuinely receptive, then the staff needs to move along and focus on the #50-150 rated type kids where they should have better success.
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justsaying
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Post by justsaying on May 15, 2020 11:14:11 GMT -5
Stop recruiting top 20 players. This isn’t the law of averages; the program will not land a kid like this in the current state. This is a Chet thread. If nothing positive to say about this recruit here then start your own garbage thread.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on May 15, 2020 11:37:44 GMT -5
All it takes is one key recruit to change the narrative and trajectory. 🙏🏻
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on May 15, 2020 11:59:13 GMT -5
Stop recruiting top 20 players. This isn’t the law of averages; the program will not land a kid like this in the current state. I don't think you ever stop recruiting top 20 players, you just need to be very selective about which ones you devote time and resources to trying to recruit them. In the case of Holmgren it seems like he has been very receptive to the recruiting pitch that Ewing is giving to him, so you stay on him until it becomes obvious he is not going to commit to Georgetown. If you can get a positive response, or have some type of "connection" (through family or some other type of existing relationship), then you continue to pursue these highly rated kids, but if you don't get an early feel that they are going to be genuinely receptive, then the staff needs to move along and focus on the #50-150 rated type kids where they should have better success. Yeah, this is inane. If a top 20 kid shows interest, you pursue. No one said it has to be at the exclusion of other recruiting efforts. Its not an either/or thing.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on May 15, 2020 12:02:37 GMT -5
I don't think you ever stop recruiting top 20 players, you just need to be very selective about which ones you devote time and resources to trying to recruit them. In the case of Holmgren it seems like he has been very receptive to the recruiting pitch that Ewing is giving to him, so you stay on him until it becomes obvious he is not going to commit to Georgetown. If you can get a positive response, or have some type of "connection" (through family or some other type of existing relationship), then you continue to pursue these highly rated kids, but if you don't get an early feel that they are going to be genuinely receptive, then the staff needs to move along and focus on the #50-150 rated type kids where they should have better success. Yeah, this is inane. If a top 20 kid shows interest, you pursue. No one said it has to be at the exclusion of other recruiting efforts. Its not an either/or thing. Hahah agreed, but a lot of people around here seem to think it’s a zero-sum game.
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on May 15, 2020 12:20:45 GMT -5
When he chooses a BB and we’ve spent months recruiting him to no avail and missing out on a potential lower ranked recruit, can’t wait to go thru the same conversations over and over again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2020 12:26:08 GMT -5
When he chooses a BB and we’ve spent months recruiting him to no avail and missing out on a potential lower ranked recruit, can’t wait to go thru the same conversations over and over again. These two things won't have anything to do with each other, despite your insistence.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on May 15, 2020 12:29:21 GMT -5
When he chooses a BB and we’ve spent months recruiting him to no avail and missing out on a potential lower ranked recruit, can’t wait to go thru the same conversations over and over again. Borrowing from another poster: These two things won't have anything to do with each other, despite your insistence. Adding my own color: we’ll never revisit these conversations because your point moot. And despite the general sentiment against recruiting 5 stars, I’m not sure how long the list is but in 2008 we actually landed a one and done and convinced him to stay another year. Yes it was coming off the most successful season we’ve had in forever, but some are acting like we’ve never been in the ball game. And Yurt was a 5 star who literally chose GU for our coach and his pitch/vision, but someone he doesn’t count because he was a transfer or wasn’t one-and-done. Well, he could’ve easily been two and done and missed games his freshman year due to suspension. That’s just splitting hairs, he was unquestionably the top transfer on the market. At worst top 3.
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RockawayHoya
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Post by RockawayHoya on May 15, 2020 12:35:39 GMT -5
Just my own personal view, but this has less to do with deciding whether or not we should invest time/resources into recruiting Top 20 kids and more to do with finding some people to add to the staff who can successfully pull it off.
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hoya73
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Post by hoya73 on May 15, 2020 13:19:54 GMT -5
How about stop recruiting top 20 guys because we don't want the program bashers to have to eat crow when we land one?
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Post by FrazierFanatic on May 15, 2020 13:55:13 GMT -5
Never stop recruiting that level. But you have to develop a sense of which recruits are truly seriously considering you vs. which ones just keep you on the list to have Patrick Ewing or Georgetown on there for some other reason.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on May 15, 2020 15:08:52 GMT -5
How about keep recruiting 5* kids because each year around 2 of them choose a non_BB. You never know when a kid feels your message and isn't about getting paid up front...maybe Yurt7 enjoyed his time on the Hilltop and Chet respects his countrymans opinion. Add that to a connection with Pat and maybe we hit gold.
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Post by augustusfinknottle on May 15, 2020 15:13:20 GMT -5
Not for nothin’ but what is a BB?
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Post by tribeninerhoya on May 15, 2020 15:21:23 GMT -5
Not for nothin’ but what is a BB? Blue Blood. A label many applied to us 10 years ago.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on May 15, 2020 15:29:58 GMT -5
I’m just curious of all these examples of recruits we missed out on because we spent too much time chasing 5 stars? How many 5 stars have we seriously chased?
Cole Anthony, Holmgren, Cisse and Banchero? Who am I missing?
Is that pretty much the list? Well Anthony has an inside connection so you always recruit that and we finished runner up and before the season ended he probably regretted that decision. Holmgren and Cisse are obviously receptive and we’re big Man U coached by one of the best big men to ever pick up a basketball. Banchero or whatever cut us didn’t he? I’m sure I’m missing some folks but I don’t see where the staff is chasing 5 stars for lengthy recruiting periods?
And don’t mention Cockburn/Stewart because both those kids had Caribbean ties so that’s a connection worth pursuing and we got Wahab anyway who is pretty darn good and has the potential to be all BE in year 3, if not sooner.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on May 15, 2020 18:27:26 GMT -5
I believe we recruited or offered 7 of the Top 10 players in 2021, per the 247 composite rankings: Holmgren, Baldwin, Banchero, Hardy, Griffin, Cisse and Foster. The amount of time actually invested varies though. Griffin is somebody we recruited a bit while we were pursuing his teammate RJ Davis, but he committed to Duke pretty early on. I haven't heard us spending much time pursuing Hardy either, but he does have an offer from us. Guys like Holmgren, Banchero, and Foster we know Patrick flew cross country to visit in person. Using that same ranking we also have offers out to #15 Mohammed, #18 Keels, #19 Watson, #22 Reid and #25 Kepnang in the 2021 Top 25. Ultimately I do not think that this really needs to be as black and white of an issue as it's being portrayed. Recruiting All-America level players is problematic only if you're not landing them AND it's preventing you from landing more attainable players one level down. In general I think it's possible to recruit 5 stars but also put in the necessary work to land good 3 and 4 star players. Sure, 7 of the top 10 is maybe a little much, and it's hard to see us being well-positioned for some of those players. But I have no problem with us taking a crack at a few longshots each year, especially if they're big men to whom Patrick can make a pitch that none of the other coaches can make, not even Cal or Self or Roy. Whether it lands or not depends a lot on the player, but it's a unique selling point and it's not inconceivable that it works. That's why I don't have a major objection to us pursuing someone like Holmgren or Cisse. I think the real source of frustration is that we're struggling to land kids the next tier down, especially local kids. But I think that problem is a little more multi-faceted. We certainly have plenty of offers out to kids in the 50-150ish range in 2021. I am badly hoping we can win a couple of those battles, but if we don't I don't think it'll be because we were too busy texting Holmgren or Cisse. There's plenty to critique about our recruiting especially locally, but especially in a time where coaches aren't on the road at all, my intuition is that they've got plenty of time to call or text both the 5 star types and the 3 and 4 star realistic targets.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 15, 2020 18:45:02 GMT -5
Five common factors that drive recruits to make a decision:
1. Relationships with coaches 2. Direction of the program 3. Playing time 4. Ability to make it to the next level 5. Gameday atmosphere
To a lesser extent, the next five: 1. Teammates 2. Facilities 3. Location 4. Social life 5. Academics
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on May 15, 2020 18:52:18 GMT -5
I believe we recruited or offered 7 of the Top 10 players in 2021, per the 247 composite rankings: Holmgren, Baldwin, Banchero, Hardy, Griffin, Cisse and Foster. The amount of time actually invested varies though. Griffin is somebody we recruited a bit while we were pursuing his teammate RJ Davis, but he committed to Duke pretty early on. I haven't heard us spending much time pursuing Hardy either, but he does have an offer from us. Guys like Holmgren, Banchero, and Foster we know Patrick flew cross country to visit in person. Using that same ranking we also have offers out to #15 Mohammed, #18 Keels, #19 Watson, #22 Reid and #25 Kepnang in the 2021 Top 25. Ultimately I do not think that this really needs to be as black and white of an issue as it's being portrayed. Recruiting All-America level players is problematic only if you're not landing them AND it's preventing you from landing more attainable players one level down. In general I think it's possible to recruit 5 stars but also put in the necessary work to land good 3 and 4 star players. Sure, 7 of the top 10 is maybe a little much, and it's hard to see us being well-positioned for some of those players. But I have no problem with us taking a crack at a few longshots each year, especially if they're big men to whom Patrick can make a pitch that none of the other coaches can make, not even Cal or Self or Roy. Whether it lands or not depends a lot on the player, but it's a unique selling point and it's not inconceivable that it works. That's why I don't have a major objection to us pursuing someone like Holmgren or Cisse. I think the real source of frustration is that we're struggling to land kids the next tier down, especially local kids. But I think that problem is a little more multi-faceted. We certainly have plenty of offers out to kids in the 50-150ish range in 2021. I am badly hoping we can win a couple of those battles, but if we don't I don't think it'll be because we were too busy texting Holmgren or Cisse. There's plenty to critique about our recruiting especially locally, but especially in a time where coaches aren't on the road at all, my intuition is that they've got plenty of time to call or text both the 5 star types and the 3 and 4 star realistic targets. Agreed, good points. I’ll add that we arguably haven’t gotten anyone good locally since Whittington (and even he isn’t really considered the caliber of local recruit that this board is complaining about not getting), and before then we got a handful due to the success of the Final Four but that dwindled as we got further away. We haven’t really been in play for top tier local talent for the past 8 years or so. I guess Walker and Pickett count and I think they were plus pieces but those ultimately aren’t the type of pieces people are grumbling about. I haven’t followed this year’s DMV recruiting too closely, but I saw a lot of people complain about not getting Timberlake and I know I’m in the minority but I don’t think that kid is even as possible as Murray, and I don’t think Murray is a freshman year starter either. Ultimately, it doesn’t help that we got two burger boys in Wright and Freeman and neither played in the league (they had tough luck with the lockout that summer). It doesn’t help that Sims dwindled for so long before turning it on. It doesn’t help that Jason was great for us but never sniffed the league. It doesn’t help that Whitt got suspended for (a multitude of things, but) reportedly missing a final and had a substitute teacher put his nose in things. It doesn’t help that we let Benjamin go, etc. it doesn’t help that Tre Campbell never did anything. My point being local kids coming to Georgetown hasn’t really planned out in a positive way other than Clark and Markel this past decade imo unless I’m forgetting someone. I could see the UMD staff easily pointing to that and it’s true. We haven’t developed local talent to expectations really. Neither have they but they’ve got the big state school thing going for them and are the hub of under armor. All that said, that’s almost besides the point cause the question is what are we doing to correct that now? Well, time will tell. But we did just have Twill on board for a second, so who knows. Maybe a different DMV kid will be funneled here by his father but that kid will actually respect his parent’s judgement since they have way more experience 🤷🏽♂️ Either way we got Wahab last year and Pickett two years before that. It’s only a couple players, but it’s not nothing. Hopefully our local recruiting picks up, but not just for the sake of taking local kids. Not all local kids with stars next to their names pan out. Morko and Wahab going off this year wouldn’t hurt either.
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on May 15, 2020 19:33:10 GMT -5
How about stop recruiting top 20 guys because we don't want the program bashers to have to eat crow when we land one? How about we win games, not finish 9th in the conference and not have half our team bail in a few month period? Then stop recruiting kids that pay lip service to our coach and our program from 25 years ago. It’s sad to see this fan base not realize we are one step ahead of DePaul.
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