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Post by hoyasaxa18 on Sept 12, 2019 22:20:09 GMT -5
I realize it’s unlikely to happen, but Holmgren and a senior LeBlanc would be the most devastating frontcourt in the country.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 2:44:35 GMT -5
That’s not a connection, or I should say the type I’m talking about. Patrick Ewing playing with Cole Anthony’s dad and knowing him since he was a baby is a connection. In the end he chose UNC who has his Godfather, Hubert Davis on staff. You want layups. The easy way! A Cole Anthony situation doesn't happen but maybe once in a generation. When they do happen they don't always workout. Look at Ben Simmons. He got the staff at LSU fired. That's another topic. Recruiting is hard work. By your logic, every time the staff is recruiting a prospect and one of the "Blue Bloods" starts showing interest,they should pack up & move on to another prospect, connections and interest be Damned. What if this year's squad makes a Final 4 run? You can't predict the future. If you would have told me three years ago that Texas Tech would have been playing for a National Championship, or Loyola Chicago would be a Final 4 team three years out, I would have LMAO. Not every top players is on the take $$$. As of today, Holmgren IMO is not a one & done because his body is going to need to develop a bit more. He makes college KD look chunky. It's not about Holmgren's "ranking", it's about his game and how he feels about Georgetown & vice versa. To stop recruiting him 2 years out because of assumptions, insecurities, or both is weak minded. It's as if Georgetown isn't worthy of the top talent or doesn't have a lot to offer them. By your theory, Coach Thompson shouldn't have recruited Patrick Ewing. Sometimes you gotta step outside of your comfort zone and go after what you want to become great. Rj Davis has a UNC and a Kansas offer and I've never said anything like that so I don't know where that's coming from tbh. It's not being weak minded or insecure imo. It's being smart and picking the right battles so you can give yourself the best shot at success. The time spent traveling to Vegas to recruit 5 star kids and Minnesota to recruit a kid like Suggs could have been better spent on a kid like Timberlake. Timberlake also had positive things to say about the staff and program early on but for whatever reason we didn't really go all in for him. His top 7 is Alabama, Miami, Pitt, UNC, Providence, Seton Hall, and South Carolina. He's #28 in the country. If Gtown was in that group you would probably like ur chances, no? If you recruit him like a 5 star you can win that battle. You can also loose it, but you typically have better odds with a kid like him than the Holmgren type.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Sept 13, 2019 2:46:45 GMT -5
So if the staff has a connection with Banchero, your okay with them recruiting him. Yet the staff has a connection with Holmgren. He has established an interest on his part by choosing to visit the campus, staff and team on his own dime. The staff has been obviously recruiting Holmgren for some amount of time before visited the campus. He has mentioned in a recent interview that he's in contact with Coach Ewing more then any other college coach, and you believe the staff should just quit recruiting him and use their resources elsewhere? I get it you feel the staff's sweet spot is recruiting kids "ranked" between 40-200. Usually I agree with you on that but if you have an elite player taking the time & money to come see you and showing you interest, you have to pursue and see where it takes you. That's like having. a really smart & attractive women hitting on you decide not to pursue her because you already have in your mind that it's not going to work out. We don't know if Holmgren or his family has Georgetown ties, grow up a fan of the Hoyas, or weirdly actually interested in the academic opportunities unique to Georgetown. I'm not saying the staff should be chasing all the "5⭐" prospects but when you have one showing you interest you gotta see where it goes especially one that is 2 classes out. You can recruit multiple prospects of the same position at the same time. They can recruit Holmgren and if by next spring they feel there is no traction, they have plenty of time to pivot. The staff can walk & chew gum at the same time.... That’s not a connection, or I should say the type I’m talking about. Patrick Ewing playing with Cole Anthony’s dad and knowing him since he was a baby is a connection. In the end he chose UNC who has his Godfather, Hubert Davis on staff. I think the staff can pull kids in the 25-40 range also if the recruit them like 5 stars. Especially if they are local. Ewing only getting an "in" because of familiarity with a player's dad is less impressive than an actual connection made with the recruit himself. Didn't the Hoyas lose a recruit (wing) to Kentucky despite Orr having known or coached his dad? This hasn't been working for us.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Sept 13, 2019 2:54:27 GMT -5
That’s not a connection, or I should say the type I’m talking about. Patrick Ewing playing with Cole Anthony’s dad and knowing him since he was a baby is a connection. In the end he chose UNC who has his Godfather, Hubert Davis on staff. You want layups. The easy way! A Cole Anthony situation doesn't happen but maybe once in a generation. When they do happen they don't always workout. Look at Ben Simmons. He got the staff at LSU fired. That's another topic. Recruiting is hard work. By your logic, every time the staff is recruiting a prospect and one of the "Blue Bloods" starts showing interest,they should pack up & move on to another prospect, connections and interest be Damned. What if this year's squad makes a Final 4 run? You can't predict the future. If you would have told me three years ago that Texas Tech would have been playing for a National Championship, or Loyola Chicago would be a Final 4 team three years out, I would have LMAO. Not every top players is on the take $$$. As of today, Holmgren IMO is not a one & done because his body is going to need to develop a bit more. He makes college KD look chunky. It's not about Holmgren's "ranking", it's about his game and how he feels about Georgetown & vice versa. To stop recruiting him 2 years out because of assumptions, insecurities, or both is weak minded. It's as if Georgetown isn't worthy of the top talent or doesn't have a lot to offer them. By your theory, Coach Thompson shouldn't have recruited Patrick Ewing. Sometimes you gotta step outside of your comfort zone and go after what you want to become great. The frustrating thing is every season there are a handful of non blue-blood teams getting five star recruits, and yet many Hoya fans think the Georgetown staff should shut things down whenever they are in the running for such a recruit. Look at Georgia. They are far from being a traditional hoop presence and yet they brought in the #1 recruit. A couple of years ago Alabama also brought in a top five, top ten player. Now I realize in both cases the players were local products. But when there is an elite top ten or top twenty DC area recruit, fans on this site (not necessarily YaBoy) will also remark that the Hoyas are wasting their time because blue bloods like Duke, Kentucky or UNC are sniffing around. Why can Georgia or Alabama win that battle and Gtown can't? No football games to impress the recruits with during visits?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 3:04:23 GMT -5
That’s not a connection, or I should say the type I’m talking about. Patrick Ewing playing with Cole Anthony’s dad and knowing him since he was a baby is a connection. In the end he chose UNC who has his Godfather, Hubert Davis on staff. I think the staff can pull kids in the 25-40 range also if the recruit them like 5 stars. Especially if they are local. Ewing only getting an "in" because of familiarity with a player's dad is less impressive than an actual connection made with the recruit himself. Didn't the Hoyas lose a recruit (wing) to Kentucky despite Orr having known or coached his dad? This hasn't been working for us. I'm more impressed that Holmgren has established a rapport of some kind with Ewing despite not having some indirect connection with Ewing that was established before he was born. It makes the rapport seem more sincere, more genuinely earned even if he ends up elsewhere. Khalil Whitney. He's actually the perfect example. He ended up at at a blue blood but his top 3 schools were Illinois, Georgetown, and UK. Illinois was there because he was from Illinois. Georgetown was there because Orr coached his pops. Uk was there because they're UK. Blue blood, prior connection, or local. That's how it usually ends up for these top 20 kids that aren't on the take. If you don't have one of those 3 things working for you it's very difficult.
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Sept 13, 2019 4:18:51 GMT -5
You want layups. The easy way! A Cole Anthony situation doesn't happen but maybe once in a generation. When they do happen they don't always workout. Look at Ben Simmons. He got the staff at LSU fired. That's another topic. Recruiting is hard work. By your logic, every time the staff is recruiting a prospect and one of the "Blue Bloods" starts showing interest,they should pack up & move on to another prospect, connections and interest be Damned. What if this year's squad makes a Final 4 run? You can't predict the future. If you would have told me three years ago that Texas Tech would have been playing for a National Championship, or Loyola Chicago would be a Final 4 team three years out, I would have LMAO. Not every top players is on the take $$$. As of today, Holmgren IMO is not a one & done because his body is going to need to develop a bit more. He makes college KD look chunky. It's not about Holmgren's "ranking", it's about his game and how he feels about Georgetown & vice versa. To stop recruiting him 2 years out because of assumptions, insecurities, or both is weak minded. It's as if Georgetown isn't worthy of the top talent or doesn't have a lot to offer them. By your theory, Coach Thompson shouldn't have recruited Patrick Ewing. Sometimes you gotta step outside of your comfort zone and go after what you want to become great. Rj Davis has a UNC and a Kansas offer and I've never said anything like that so I don't know where that's coming from tbh. It's not being weak minded or insecure imo. It's being smart and picking the right battles so you can give yourself the best shot at success. The time spent traveling to Vegas to recruit 5 star kids and Minnesota to recruit a kid like Suggs could have been better spent on a kid like Timberlake. Timberlake also had positive things to say about the staff and program early on but for whatever reason we didn't really go all in for him. His top 7 is Alabama, Miami, Pitt, UNC, Providence, Seton Hall, and South Carolina. He's #28 in the country. If Gtown was in that group you would probably like ur chances, no? If you recruit him like a 5 star you can win that battle. Better to focus on kids like him than play footsie with a Scruggs imo.... I don't remember Jalen Suggs visiting Georgetown unofficially or officially. Holmgren did visit by his own choice and dime. Maybe the staff targeted/preferred Terrence Williams over Timberlake. Maybe Williams's long term was a better fit for the Georgetown roster then Timberlake. Maybe the staff didn't feel Timberlake's game or personality wasn't a good fit. Maybe Timberlake wasn't interested in Georgetown or just wanted to get away from the area. Maryland nor any other DMV area programs are on his final list. There is a number of reasons why the staff didn't pursue Timberlake or vice versa. One thing for certain is that Timberlake isn't considering Georgetown or vice versa because they waisted resources recruiting other prospects. Staff's have all the time & resources necessary to recruit multiple prospects, especially local prospects. If RJ Davis hadn't visited Georgetown at all, then no one would think we have any chance with him regardless if the Hoyas were on his final 4 list alongside UNC, Kansas or anyone other program. The reason why the staff is perceived to be in a good position with Davis is because Davis & his family made the original unofficial visit during the season. That allowed the relationship to continue to grow until now where the Hoyas are considered by some as the frontrunner for his commitment. Same thing applies with Holmgren. I don't get how anyone could think the staff would be waisting their time on a recruit that visited them, is open to being recruited by the staff and is probably a year out (minimum) on making a decision. Plenty of time for the staff to pivot if they aren't making traction with Holmgren or any other 2021 recruit. They will definitely be recruiting multiple players at the same position that Holmgren plays anyways. I would agree with you if Holmgren was a 2020 prospect and they were trying to jump in now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 10:18:38 GMT -5
Rj Davis has a UNC and a Kansas offer and I've never said anything like that so I don't know where that's coming from tbh. It's not being weak minded or insecure imo. It's being smart and picking the right battles so you can give yourself the best shot at success. The time spent traveling to Vegas to recruit 5 star kids and Minnesota to recruit a kid like Suggs could have been better spent on a kid like Timberlake. Timberlake also had positive things to say about the staff and program early on but for whatever reason we didn't really go all in for him. His top 7 is Alabama, Miami, Pitt, UNC, Providence, Seton Hall, and South Carolina. He's #28 in the country. If Gtown was in that group you would probably like ur chances, no? If you recruit him like a 5 star you can win that battle. Better to focus on kids like him than play footsie with a Scruggs imo.... I don't remember Jalen Suggs visiting Georgetown unofficially or officially. Holmgren did visit by his own choice and dime. Maybe the staff targeted/preferred Terrence Williams over Timberlake. Maybe Williams's long term was a better fit for the Georgetown roster then Timberlake. Maybe the staff didn't feel Timberlake's game or personality wasn't a good fit. Maybe Timberlake wasn't interested in Georgetown or just wanted to get away from the area. Maryland nor any other DMV area programs are on his final list. There is a number of reasons why the staff didn't pursue Timberlake or vice versa. One thing for certain is that Timberlake isn't considering Georgetown or vice versa because they waisted resources recruiting other prospects. Staff's have all the time & resources necessary to recruit multiple prospects, especially local prospects. If RJ Davis hadn't visited Georgetown at all, then no one would think we have any chance with him regardless if the Hoyas were on his final 4 list alongside UNC, Kansas or anyone other program. The reason why the staff is perceived to be in a good position with Davis is because Davis & his family made the original unofficial visit during the season. That allowed the relationship to continue to grow until now where the Hoyas are considered by some as the frontrunner for his commitment. Same thing applies with Holmgren. I don't get how anyone could think the staff would be waisting their time on a recruit that visited them, is open to being recruited by the staff and is probably a year out (minimum) on making a decision. Plenty of time for the staff to pivot if they aren't making traction with Holmgren or any other 2021 recruit. They will definitely be recruiting multiple players at the same position that Holmgren plays anyways. I would agree with you if Holmgren was a 2020 prospect and they were trying to jump in now. There's no maybe here. Timberlake was interested early on but they didn't stay consistent with him. By the time they started showing renewed interest, or pivoted back, the ship had already sailed. I'm going to let you guys have it. All I'm doing is giving my opinion. It's ok for you/others to have a different one.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Sept 13, 2019 10:35:46 GMT -5
Agree with what you stated, but will add that Pat may prioritize a player he has less of a chance for for a number of reasons- need, athleticism, fit, academics, upside, etc. A coach like Pat probably feels like he can land anybody. I kind of like that.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Sept 13, 2019 12:46:21 GMT -5
Merit on both sides here. I'd agree with Yaboy that the odds of landing a Top 5 player who is from a totally different part of the country and who has no unique connections to the school or the staff are very low. We just don't have that kind of brand equity nationally at this point. Our last decade has been rough, and the kids we're recruiting were toddlers the last time we made a run in March. And we really don't have a strong crop of guys in the NBA to point to either. We have enough momentum to sell ourselves to kids in the Top 100, but if we're being objective do we really think we're strong enough to land a kid like Holmgren who can go anywhere in the country that he wants? The idealism is nice, or maybe it's confidence from the staff, but it hasn't yielded anything yet. And there's a compelling argument to be made that we'd be better off having our staff follow around Trevor Keels and Quincy Allen and Jakai Robinson every where they went instead, rather than flying around to chase 5 star kids who we really don't stand much of a chance at.
All that being said, I'm fine with us taking a couple of swings for the fences in each class. We should have the bandwidth to do that while still not losing any ground on our primary, more realistic targets. I think you have to do it strategically, and in many cases we have, ie. trying to make the "Jamaican big man" pitch to Isiah Stewart or leveraging the connection to dad for Cole Anthony. It's ok to throw your hat in the ring for a couple of big fish each year, because you never know.
I think the point of view Yaboy is articulating isn't so much a criticism of recruiting a guy like Holmgren--because on the surface he's a great player, of course we'd recruit him. It's more of a concern that they are spending too much time chasing Top 25 kids from outside the area who probably aren't likely to choose us given their many suitors (at least until we can re-establish ourselves in March and/or get some guys drafted and playing well in the NBA) at the expense of guys who are one level down (ie 40-100ish in the rankings) but seem like more realistic fits. We are definitely chasing our share of top guys like Holmgren, Paolo Banchero, Michael Foster, Jaden Hardy, Trey Patterson, Jerell Colbert etc., none of whom are local or have obvious ties to the university. Basically, our list of targets looks like that of a true blue blood program. And that's well and good, as long as it isn't detracting from our pursuit of guys like Keels or Allen. Because even though we might have the recruiting target list of a blue blood, we haven't had the on-court success or recent draft track record of one, and so we can't or shouldn't count on actually landing these guys. Aiming high is great, shooting for the stars is great, dreaming big is great, but it's also important to understand probability and not let quality players who we do have a built-in advantage for slip through our fingers while we chase kids we have 1% chance of landing.
There's a balance to be struck. You can do a little bit of both, but have to be realistic about your chances with the Holmgrens of the world and make sure you're not blowing it with good kids from the DMV while you fly to Minneapolis to chat with Holmgren or Seattle to see Banchero or Houston to catch up with Colbert.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Sept 13, 2019 19:17:40 GMT -5
Merit on both sides here. I'd agree with Yaboy that the odds of landing a Top 5 player who is from a totally different part of the country and who has no unique connections to the school or the staff are very low. We just don't have that kind of brand equity nationally at this point. Our last decade has been rough, and the kids we're recruiting were toddlers the last time we made a run in March. And we really don't have a strong crop of guys in the NBA to point to either. We have enough momentum to sell ourselves to kids in the Top 100, but if we're being objective do we really think we're strong enough to land a kid like Holmgren who can go anywhere in the country that he wants? The idealism is nice, or maybe it's confidence from the staff, but it hasn't yielded anything yet. And there's a compelling argument to be made that we'd be better off having our staff follow around Trevor Keels and Quincy Allen and Jakai Robinson every where they went instead, rather than flying around to chase 5 star kids who we really don't stand much of a chance at. All that being said, I'm fine with us taking a couple of swings for the fences in each class. We should have the bandwidth to do that while still not losing any ground on our primary, more realistic targets. I think you have to do it strategically, and in many cases we have, ie. trying to make the "Jamaican big man" pitch to Isiah Stewart or leveraging the connection to dad for Cole Anthony. It's ok to throw your hat in the ring for a couple of big fish each year, because you never know. I think the point of view Yaboy is articulating isn't so much a criticism of recruiting a guy like Holmgren--because on the surface he's a great player, of course we'd recruit him. It's more of a concern that they are spending too much time chasing Top 25 kids from outside the area who probably aren't likely to choose us given their many suitors (at least until we can re-establish ourselves in March and/or get some guys drafted and playing well in the NBA) at the expense of guys who are one level down (ie 40-100ish in the rankings) but seem like more realistic fits. We are definitely chasing our share of top guys like Holmgren, Paolo Banchero, Michael Foster, Jaden Hardy, Trey Patterson, Jerell Colbert etc., none of whom are local or have obvious ties to the university. Basically, our list of targets looks like that of a true blue blood program. And that's well and good, as long as it isn't detracting from our pursuit of guys like Keels or Allen. Because even though we might have the recruiting target list of a blue blood, we haven't had the on-court success or recent draft track record of one, and so we can't or shouldn't count on actually landing these guys. Aiming high is great, shooting for the stars is great, dreaming big is great, but it's also important to understand probability and not let quality players who we do have a built-in advantage for slip through our fingers while we chase kids we have 1% chance of landing. There's a balance to be struck. You can do a little bit of both, but have to be realistic about your chances with the Holmgrens of the world and make sure you're not blowing it with good kids from the DMV while you fly to Minneapolis to chat with Holmgren or Seattle to see Banchero or Houston to catch up with Colbert. You make a great argument. You also help reinforce the idea of continuing to pursue the five-star recruits by pointing out how the Hoyas will have to be very successful on the court in order to enhance their chances of realistically reeling in those types of players. If the Hoyas start winning in a big way this season and do so with an exciting and attractive brand of basketball, then suddenly the program may be in play to get a handful of those players. It would be wise to be in the best position to take advantage of that scenario by having already established ties and formed relationships. There is a long way to go before most of these 2021 guys make their decisions.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2019 12:21:42 GMT -5
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Sept 17, 2019 16:24:01 GMT -5
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Sept 19, 2019 15:31:55 GMT -5
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jan 22, 2020 16:46:01 GMT -5
Maybe we can get Reid and this kid. Put Chet at the 3, Reid at the 4, Wahab at the 5.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jan 22, 2020 17:04:05 GMT -5
Maybe we can get Reid and this kid. Put Chet at the 3, Reid at the 4, Wahab at the 5. Don't tease us like that.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Feb 26, 2020 16:20:30 GMT -5
If Kuminga were to reclassify to the 2020 class, which has been rumored, Holmgren is the leader to jump into the pole position, but Baldwin would be in the conversation as well. A unique prospect, Holmgren stands better than 7-feet tall and is rail thin, but his impact is felt on both ends of the floor. Offensively, Holmgren is versatile, and can score facing the rim with jump shots, but is also skilled enough to attack off the bounce or post up on the block. On defense, he’s one of the top three shot blockers in high school basketball. Minnesota, Gonzaga, Georgetown, Memphis, North Carolina, Ohio State and Maryland are who Holmgren says are recruiting him the hardest. 247sports.com/Article/College-basketball-recruiting-rankings-2021-Jon-Kuminga-Chet-Holmgren-144287812/
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Feb 26, 2020 18:15:05 GMT -5
Again stop wasting time on kids like this.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Feb 26, 2020 18:22:59 GMT -5
Again stop wasting time on kids like this. No
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Feb 26, 2020 19:46:27 GMT -5
Again stop wasting time on kids like this. No Travel halfway across the continent to recruit a player who will never come to Georgetown at the same time spend less time focusing on recruiting the DMV. Smart. Might help explain why we are bringing up the rear in the BE.
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swhoya
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Post by swhoya on Feb 26, 2020 20:41:18 GMT -5
Travel halfway across the continent to recruit a player who will never come to Georgetown at the same time spend less time focusing on recruiting the DMV. Smart. Might help explain why we are bringing up the rear in the BE. Right. I’m sure that’s the reason. Couldn’t be because...doesn’t matter. God forbid we try to be more than a regional school. Here’s a total guess: if you look at the top 25, EVERY SINGLE ONE recruits outside of their immediate area. Every dang one. So no. This isn’t the reason we are struggling right now.
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