tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Apr 11, 2019 12:37:00 GMT -5
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Apr 11, 2019 16:23:26 GMT -5
There are no words...
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoya9797 on Apr 11, 2019 17:11:23 GMT -5
Someday you'll get over the fact that slavery is gone.
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DallasHoya
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Post by DallasHoya on Apr 11, 2019 18:12:31 GMT -5
My ancestors were slaves of Africans in Egypt 5,000 years ago. Let’s call it even.
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Apr 11, 2019 20:05:16 GMT -5
It's really not that much. I don't think this story will be going away.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Apr 12, 2019 7:34:35 GMT -5
The students have spoken.
It will be interesting to see if the University implements this idea.
Of course, should the University choose not to implement this plan, there is nothing stopping the students from creating such a fund themselves.
I wonder how many would actually take the $27.20 out of their own pockets as opposed to having it appear as a surcharge on the tuition bill so many of them never see and pass on to Mom and Dad.
Time will tell.
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Apr 12, 2019 8:00:15 GMT -5
Ezekiel 18:19-20 English Standard Version (ESV)
19 “Yet you say, ‘Why should not the son suffer for the iniquity of the father?’ When the son has done what is just and right, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live. 20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
This is a fundamentally immoral act.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 12, 2019 8:05:15 GMT -5
The students have spoken. The students have spoken for what is essentially a false narrative: that the University sold slaves, which it did not. That media outlets cite this without correction or clarification is a complete failure of Georgetown's public relations office. This was an action of the Jesuit order, not Georgetown proper; yet, Georgetown has tacitly supported the narrative to show it was socially conscious. (FWIW, VP Todd Olson sent a memo last night basically saying Georgetown is not bound to do anything by the student vote.) The attorneys out in HoyaTalk know this better than I would, but you cannot convey what you do not own, and the slaves were held by the Jesuits for close to 200 years, prior to and after the University, and were never owned by the University or transferred to it. Further, the vast majority of slaves were situated in Jesuit owned plantations in southern Maryland, and would not have been even connected to the campus itself, since the campus was not arable land. But that doesn't fit the narrative.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Apr 12, 2019 8:52:30 GMT -5
The students have spoken. The students have spoken for what is essentially a false narrative: that the University sold slaves, which it did not. That media outlets cite this without correction or clarification is a complete failure of Georgetown's public relations office. This was an action of the Jesuit order, not Georgetown proper; yet, Georgetown has tacitly supported the narrative to show it was socially conscious. (FWIW, VP Todd Olson sent a memo last night basically saying Georgetown is not bound to do anything by the student vote.) The attorneys out in HoyaTalk know this better than I would, but you cannot convey what you do not own, and the slaves were held by the Jesuits for close to 200 years, prior to and after the University, and were never owned by the University or transferred to it. Further, the vast majority of slaves were situated in Jesuit owned plantations in southern Maryland, and would not have been even connected to the campus itself, since the campus was not arable land. But that doesn't fit the narrative. How dare you inject facts into this discussion? The kids want to sing Kumbaya...
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Apr 12, 2019 9:23:54 GMT -5
The students have spoken. It will be interesting to see if the University implements this idea. Of course, should the University choose not to implement this plan, there is nothing stopping the students from creating such a fund themselves. I wonder how many would actually take the $27.20 out of their own pockets as opposed to having it appear as a surcharge on the tuition bill so many of them never see and pass on to Mom and Dad. Time will tell. $55. That's an evening of beers or two weeks of coffee. If the students who voted in favor of this want to pony up and establish a fund, let 'em have at it. Don't stick it onto the tuition and fees. www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/04/12/georgetown-students-vote-favor-reparations-slaves/?utm_term=.1a68b53c70f0
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Apr 12, 2019 9:45:23 GMT -5
Once you become a fundamentally immoral institution, you will lose all. Donors are not going to want to give to a fundamentally immoral institution. Jesus came to earth to preach the fundamental Christian value of forgiveness to forever wipe away any vestige of Original Sin or any original sin. True believing Christian students will no longer want to attend.
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Apr 12, 2019 9:52:47 GMT -5
if the administration goes along with this-all of us who love Georgetown will have to sadly say "it was a great 230 year run."
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Apr 12, 2019 18:30:30 GMT -5
Once you become a fundamentally immoral institution, you will lose all. Donors are not going to want to give to a fundamentally immoral institution. Jesus came to earth to preach the fundamental Christian value of forgiveness to forever wipe away any vestige of Original Sin or any original sin. True believing Christian students will no longer want to attend. I think this is quite a bit overstated. Why fault the students for at least attempting to correct something as fundamentally immoral as slavery?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 12, 2019 18:53:35 GMT -5
Once you become a fundamentally immoral institution, you will lose all. Donors are not going to want to give to a fundamentally immoral institution. Jesus came to earth to preach the fundamental Christian value of forgiveness to forever wipe away any vestige of Original Sin or any original sin. True believing Christian students will no longer want to attend. I think this is quite a bit overstated. Why fault the students for at least attempting to correct something as fundamentally immoral as slavery? The students are operating under a false premise that their University owned and sold slaves when it did neither. Slaves were, part and parcel, a legacy of the Jesuits which maintained plantations in the US, Caribbean, and Brazil well into the 19th Century.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Apr 12, 2019 18:55:55 GMT -5
I think this is quite a bit overstated. Why fault the students for at least attempting to correct something as fundamentally immoral as slavery? The students are operating under a false premise that their University owned and sold slaves when it did neither. Slaves were, part and parcel, a legacy of the Jesuits which maintained plantations in the US, Caribbean, and Brazil well into the 19th Century. Will you please stop injecting facts into the Kumbaya party of spoiled children spending Mom and Dad’s tuition money? They feel morally superior now. Isn’t that all that really matters these days?
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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on Apr 12, 2019 20:08:51 GMT -5
More coverage from CNBC: www.cnbc.com/2019/04/12/georgetown-votes-to-raise-tuition-by-27-to-pay-for-reparations.htmlNB re DFW's argument: the CNBC article doesn't say Georgetown sold the slaves. It says the Jesuits did so in order to keep Georgetown solvent. Methinks the argument that the media is somehow inaccurately reporting the historical facts vis-a-vis Gtown vs. Maryland Province is 1) distracting from the true issue of the Maryland Jesuit Province's complicity in the slave trade and 2) nano-splitting of hairs on what truly happened to those 272 families. My reaction to all this as an 80s alum is: 1) $27.20/academic year!??!? Really?!??! Should be more like $272 (to generate $3.8m instead $380k for the descendants of those families) or more when median GU undergraduate annual family income approaches $230K! and 2) I have no problem holding students, instead of families, personally accountable for the fee. If GU put its money where its mouth/values is/are (which it so rarely has the courage to do), might it not require all undergraduates, regardless of family income or net worth, to provide community service valued at current DC minimum wage to fulfill the reparations obligation (even this idea might only yield 10-20 hours of labor with a $272 fee but it might generate some interesting student debate/reflection on the type of work current businesses deem minimum wage worthy)?!? Civil libertarians might rightfully howl at such a proposal but at least our alma mater and its current students are attempting to address a clear historical injustice in a much more tangible way than the Harvards and Browns of the world. Right-wing pablum, posturing, sneering and stereotyping of students regarding what is evidently a preponderant opinion (2-1 vote) on campus to do something concrete does not further constructive dialogue in any way nor does it reflect well on those of us as alums who were either blithely ignorant of the history of this episode or chose to believe GU as an institution could somehow wash its hands of it. I choose to give credit to the administration and the students to reflect critically on the institution's heritage....
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Apr 12, 2019 20:42:53 GMT -5
True believing Christian students will no longer want to attend. Let’s do what we can to make this happen ASAP.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 12, 2019 21:32:05 GMT -5
Civil libertarians might rightfully howl at such a proposal but at least our alma mater and its current students are attempting to address a clear historical injustice in a much more tangible way than the Harvards and Browns of the world. Right-wing pablum, posturing, sneering and stereotyping of students regarding what is evidently a preponderant opinion (2-1 vote) on campus to do something concrete does not further constructive dialogue in any way nor does it reflect well on those of us as alums who were either blithely ignorant of the history of this episode or chose to believe GU as an institution could somehow wash its hands of it. I choose to give credit to the administration and the students to reflect critically on the institution's heritage.... I guess I'm the civil libertarian in this argument. The issue I see with this is that, frankly, a lot of students at GU are "blithely ignorant of the history of this episode". This wasn't exactly breaking news in 2015--it was the subject of an alumni dinner five years earlier and was been variously reported in the HOYA dating back to the 1960's. Perhaps students weren't as politically enlightened then but it was understood in context of the Jesuits, the Catholic Church, and the antebellum South, something today's woke generation has no interest in reflecting upon because dialogue might as well be a four letter word in today's 24/7 world. It's easier for self-assign blame than to learn from the larger context. Should you get back for Reunion, let's continue the discussion over a Tombs burger. Maybe we can get Dr. LoPresti to weigh in on the Catholic ethics of manumission in 1830's Maryland... either that, or bemoan the Orioles' bullpen.
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Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Apr 12, 2019 23:06:29 GMT -5
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Apr 14, 2019 6:22:12 GMT -5
Is empty symbolism now part of the US News ranking?
If so, we are bound to pick up valuable ratings points.
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