mchoya
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Post by mchoya on Feb 26, 2019 20:00:40 GMT -5
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Post by Problem of Dog on Feb 26, 2019 22:35:07 GMT -5
Wait. What? We're playing Catholic? Is this a joke?
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Post by Problem of Dog on Feb 26, 2019 22:36:11 GMT -5
What an absolute disaster of a non-conference schedule. Pitiful.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 26, 2019 23:15:54 GMT -5
The front page has some details, but it looks like Howard University scheduled another game the day that HU was scheduled to play Georgetown.
Still, he can do better than Davidson and Catholic. He has to.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 27, 2019 0:21:29 GMT -5
Catholic's 2018 schedule:
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Post by Problem of Dog on Feb 27, 2019 11:44:04 GMT -5
The front page has some details, but it looks like Howard University scheduled another game the day that HU was scheduled to play Georgetown. Still, he can do better than Davidson and Catholic. He has to. This is why people lose interest in the program. No one is going to push for more funding/scholarships/better facilities for a program so that we can spend Saturdays watching us play Catholic. Davidson is also a horrible game, given that we already have Marist on the schedule. We shouldn't do two Pioneer games in a year. I'd rather play Davidson, a peer in some ways, than Marist.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Feb 27, 2019 12:48:09 GMT -5
I'll be the one Hoya alum making the trip to Ithaca on October 5 for the Cornell game; my girlfriend is a Cornell grad, and it's homecoming weekend for the Big Red. Feeling like a representative of the sacrificial lamb here.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Apr 13, 2019 7:45:05 GMT -5
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 25, 2019 21:51:26 GMT -5
To put in perspective how exceedingly poor this non-conference schedule is, here's the first three games for the other PL teams:
Bucknell: Temple, Sacred Heart, Villanova Colgate: Villanova, Air Force, William & Mary Fordham: Central Connecticut, Ball State, Bryant Holy Cross: Navy, New Hampshire, Yale (Syracuse in week 4) Lafayette: William & Mary, Monmouth, Sacred Heart Lehigh: St. Francis, California-Davis, Villanova
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jul 26, 2019 9:52:16 GMT -5
To put in perspective how exceedingly poor this non-conference schedule is, here's the first three games for the other PL teams: Bucknell: Temple, Sacred Heart, Villanova Colgate: Villanova, Air Force, William & Mary Fordham: Central Connecticut, Ball State, Bryant Holy Cross: Navy, New Hampshire, Yale (Syracuse in week 4) Lafayette: William & Mary, Monmouth, Sacred Heart Lehigh: St. Francis, California-Davis, Villanova I just don't get it. When you can get a decent payday against the likes of Syracuse and Temple or a little less from the service academies there is no reason not schedule a beatdown game every year. We should be on the phone to Navy and Uconn and Maryland for games 3,4,5 years out
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 26, 2019 10:57:40 GMT -5
I just don't get it. When you can get a decent payday against the likes of Syracuse and Temple or a little less from the service academies there is no reason not schedule a beatdown game every year. We should be on the phone to Navy and Uconn and Maryland for games 3,4,5 years out Part of this is the fact that I-A teams need an opponent with at least 56.7 "equivalencies" to count for bowl eligibility (Equivalencies is loosely defined as financial aid provided + full scholarship money). All PL schools except for Georgetown now offer 60 full rides so that counts, but Georgetown has never publicly stated their equivalency level. It's not zero, and it's not 60. However, There are schools like Duquesne that aren't close to 60 scholarships that are still getting I-A games. The Dukes have an upcoming game scheduled at Hawaii, for example and played at UMass last year. Wagner, a small NEC school that Georgetown was 2-2 against from 2011-14, has played Syracuse twice this decade. To no surprise, they lost both times (54-0, 62-10), but don't have 60 scholarships either but add in their financial aid equivalencies to get into the discussion. Granted, Georgetown doesn't need to play Syracuse. Regardless, there are a handful of low-tier I-A teams that will schedule opponents not to be bowl eligible but just to fill out a schedule. And there are certainly I-AA teams that need opponents and there's no bowl eligibility to worry about. Georgetown apparently gets (or seeks) neither.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jul 28, 2019 9:56:20 GMT -5
I just don't get it. When you can get a decent payday against the likes of Syracuse and Temple or a little less from the service academies there is no reason not schedule a beatdown game every year. We should be on the phone to Navy and Uconn and Maryland for games 3,4,5 years out I have no special insight into this, but if I had to take a guess, I would say that it's a philosophical objection. Rightly or wrongly, Georgetown believes that one of the main selling points of its program is 'ethos' - we may not have scholarships, and the way we do a lot of things might be a little quaint and not the norm... but that is 'The Georgetown Way.' I don't know that I've ever heard that exact phrase used, but you see it in the SISU stuff, creating a team logo, the fact that the program is essentially a hiring pipeline to Wall Street/investment banking, etc. etc. If you come play football at Georgetown, there's a lot of stuff that you're not gonna get that you could get elsewhere, be it Big Man On Campus status or scholarship funds or nice facilities (although the Thompson Center certainly helps a lot, and we'll see how Cooper Field shakes out in practice). But you get a distinctive ethos, and there's a real appeal to that for some people. Part of that ethos is the program trying its best - with the resources it has and within the constraints it faces - to put guys in a position to succeed. Sending them out as sacrificial lambs against a D-I team would, presumably, contradict and violate that ethos. If you justify not 'Going Scholly' because We Do Things Differently Around Here, then you actually have to do things differently. Otherwise you lose credibility pretty fast. Part of this is the fact that I-A teams need an opponent with at least 56.7 "equivalencies" to count for bowl eligibility (Equivalencies is loosely defined as financial aid provided + full scholarship money). All PL schools except for Georgetown now offer 60 full rides so that counts, but Georgetown has never publicly stated their equivalency level. It's not zero, and it's not 60. However, There are schools like Duquesne that aren't close to 60 scholarships that are still getting I-A games. The Dukes have an upcoming game scheduled at Hawaii, for example and played at UMass last year. Wagner, a small NEC school that Georgetown was 2-2 against from 2011-14, has played Syracuse twice this decade. To no surprise, they lost both times (54-0, 62-10), but don't have 60 scholarships either but add in their financial aid equivalencies to get into the discussion. Granted, Georgetown doesn't need to play Syracuse. Regardless, there are a handful of low-tier I-A teams that will schedule opponents not to be bowl eligible but just to fill out a schedule. And there are certainly I-AA teams that need opponents and there's no bowl eligibility to worry about. Georgetown apparently gets (or seeks) neither. I seem to recall you telling me that the Patriot League's implementation of football scholarships was to make it an All-or-Nothing proposition - you either offer scholarships or you don't, but if you do, you can't combine that with financial aid equivalencies like loan buyouts. I take it the NEC does not have that rule?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 28, 2019 21:38:14 GMT -5
I have no special insight into this, but if I had to take a guess, I would say that it's a philosophical objection. Rightly or wrongly, Georgetown believes that one of the main selling points of its program is 'ethos' - we may not have scholarships, and the way we do a lot of things might be a little quaint and not the norm... but that is 'The Georgetown Way.' I don't know that I've ever heard that exact phrase used, but you see it in the SISU stuff, creating a team logo, the fact that the program is essentially a hiring pipeline to Wall Street/investment banking, etc. etc. If you come play football at Georgetown, there's a lot of stuff that you're not gonna get that you could get elsewhere, be it Big Man On Campus status or scholarship funds or nice facilities (although the Thompson Center certainly helps a lot, and we'll see how Cooper Field shakes out in practice). But you get a distinctive ethos, and there's a real appeal to that for some people. Part of that ethos is the program trying its best - with the resources it has and within the constraints it faces - to put guys in a position to succeed. Sending them out as sacrificial lambs against a D-I team would, presumably, contradict and violate that ethos. If you justify not 'Going Scholly' because We Do Things Differently Around Here, then you actually have to do things differently. Otherwise you lose credibility pretty fast. I think that argument only goes so far. If the claim is that Georgetown should give it the old college try and never seek to play teams better than they are, then the program will never improve. Mediocrity is not a virtue. The same three issues aren't being addressed within the program: 1. Georgetown is still following the playbook Bob Benson introduced in 1993: play peer institutions and good things will follow. That limits Georgetown to roughly eight non-conference opponents out of 124 in I-AA, many of which have limited or no interest in scheduling. The fan bases at Princeton or Penn are not clamoring to get Georgetown on their schedules. Since 2003, Georgetown is 5-26 (.131) versus Ivy opponents. These games have generally been ignored by fans on both sides of the field and those that played in DC were not pleased by the condition of MSF/Cooper during their visits. It'a like asking why Georgetown doesn't play basketball at Manhattan or Holy Cross anymore. First, they don't need to. Second, they don't want to. Third, no one cares if they don't. 2. A better schedule is not an either/or situation--Georgetown doesn't have to play Syracuse and Maryland to feather its nest, but Davidson and Catholic send a signal to lots of people (students, alumni, fans, reporters and other schools) that Georgetown isn't worth their interest. There are 14 I-AA schools within 150 miles of the Hilltop and Georgetown doesn't play any of them. 3. Georgetown would be well served to have one signature home game a year in Audi Field--if not for recruiting, then to let the rest of the Washington area know it actually plays schools that they would recognize. How many of us think that kid at Magruder or DeMatha or T.C Williams is telling his friends--"hey, let's go to that Georgetown game. I hear they're playing Columbia!" A capacity of 20K would certainly attract interest from schools like Villanova or Delaware that are not going to consider the portable toilets and folding chairs atmosphere at Cooper Field for their fan base. It would also give Georgetown students a fleeting look at what a college football atmosphere could be. There was a great turnout of students to the RFK game. That lasted about ten minutes into the game and they got up and left. I seem to recall you telling me that the Patriot League's implementation of football scholarships was to make it an All-or-Nothing proposition - you either offer scholarships or you don't, but if you do, you can't combine that with financial aid equivalencies like loan buyouts. I take it the NEC does not have that rule? That's correct. The thinking is that a school like Wagner is combining, for example, 40 on scholarship and 20 on financial aid to get to 60 for bowl counter status.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Jul 29, 2019 10:50:58 GMT -5
"That lasted about ten minutes into the game and they got up and left."
Honest question--what was that about? Did the game just get out of hand quickly?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 29, 2019 12:29:11 GMT -5
"That lasted about ten minutes into the game and they got up and left." Honest question--what was that about? Did the game just get out of hand quickly? Actually it was about 15 minutes of game time. On its first possession, Georgetown goes three and out, its punt is returned 91 yards for a touchdown, 7-0. On its second possession, Georgetown QB Clay Norris fumbles the ball on a 3rd and 1 at midfield. Harvard goes ten plays for the score, 14-0. On its third possession, Georgetown punts and holds Harvard to a punt. On its fourth possession, Norris throws a pick-six at the Georgetown 20, 21-0. Georgetown's only points of the game came from an errant snap that sailed over the Harvard punter's helmet and audibly clanked into a sign in the end zone. Georgetown fumbled a kickoff return with less than 2:00 left in the first half and trailed 31-2 at the break. Final: 41-2. www.gocrimson.com/sports/fball/2017-18/videos/20170930-bdd8juxe
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Aug 8, 2019 22:17:38 GMT -5
I think that argument only goes so far. If the claim is that Georgetown should give it the old college try and never seek to play teams better than they are, then the program will never improve. Mediocrity is not a virtue. I mean... of course the argument only goes so far - it's a relativistic argument! That is to say, it is based on relative disparities between programs. There's a distinct difference between playing up to a Harvard or Yale vs. playing up to a Richmond or William & Mary vs. playing up to North Dakota State. It's also an argument that is, I think, accepted by pretty much everyone to some degree - no one is proposing that we send the boys out to get slaughtered by Alabama or Clemson, after all. The disagreement is about where to draw the line... and while mediocrity may not be a virtue, I firmly believe Healy 2 sees mediocrity as the least bad option, given the morass that is college football today. 1. Georgetown is still following the playbook Bob Benson introduced in 1993: play peer institutions and good things will follow. That limits Georgetown to roughly eight non-conference opponents out of 124 in I-AA, many of which have limited or no interest in scheduling. The fan bases at Princeton or Penn are not clamoring to get Georgetown on their schedules. Since 2003, Georgetown is 5-26 (.131) versus Ivy opponents. These games have generally been ignored by fans on both sides of the field and those that played in DC were not pleased by the condition of MSF/Cooper during their visits. It'a like asking why Georgetown doesn't play basketball at Manhattan or Holy Cross anymore. First, they don't need to. Second, they don't want to. Third, no one cares if they don't. I can't really claim to have my finger on the pulse of Princeton or Penn fans... but I have to tell you, I know plenty of alums of those schools, and I have yet to meet a single one that gives a flying flip about their football program. To the extent that the topic has ever come up, the sentiments expressed have ranged from utter apathy to outright advocacy for abolition. There's not a lot of clamoring going on, period. To the extent that there is some non-negligible level of opinion about desirability of opponent out there on either side, I would wager that there's not too many more desirable matches out there, as compared to this pairing. Ivy alums would much prefer a convenient trip to DC - Acela and restaurant scene and networking opportunities and all - than an appointment in Harrisonburg, VA or Newark, DE or even Charleston, SC. As for Georgetown... in this particular instance, I think the heart of the issue is differing understanding of what constitutes a "peer school." Our aspirational peers in football are the Ivies, both because those happen to be our University-level aspirational peers and because, frankly, the Ivies continued existence is one of the main reasons we still have a football program ourselves (the other two being institutional inertia and the negative publicity of closing down a program). That we are only slightly within striking distance of them does not render this invalid - after all, it's also true of many University-level measures of comparison. So in a sense you are correct that the philosophy is "play peer institutions and good things will follow," just not exactly the way you think. The playing the peer institutions *is the point* - the program's goal is to be recognized as a peer of those institutions, because that is a key part of its raison d'etre. 2. A better schedule is not an either/or situation--Georgetown doesn't have to play Syracuse and Maryland to feather its nest, but Davidson and Catholic send a signal to lots of people (students, alumni, fans, reporters and other schools) that Georgetown isn't worth their interest. There are 14 I-AA schools within 150 miles of the Hilltop and Georgetown doesn't play any of them. 3. Georgetown would be well served to have one signature home game a year in Audi Field--if not for recruiting, then to let the rest of the Washington area know it actually plays schools that they would recognize. How many of us think that kid at Magruder or DeMatha or T.C Williams is telling his friends--"hey, let's go to that Georgetown game. I hear they're playing Columbia!" A capacity of 20K would certainly attract interest from schools like Villanova or Delaware that are not going to consider the portable toilets and folding chairs atmosphere at Cooper Field for their fan base. It would also give Georgetown students a fleeting look at what a college football atmosphere could be. There was a great turnout of students to the RFK game. That lasted about ten minutes into the game and they got up and left. It is perhaps true that a kid at Magruder or DeMatha or T.C. Williams doesn't think much of Columbia as worth their time when it comes to football. By the same token, though, absolutely no kid at any school cares about *Delaware.* And I'd bet that few feel differently about Villanova, even though they won a I-AA national title not that long ago. The Harvard RFK game worked as a draw in large part because Harvard is Harvard, they have maximum name recognition and even get a nationally televised (more or less) game each year thanks to The Game. The novelty factor of being at RFK played a big part as well, of course, but HYP are in a class of their own. And from a football perspective, we're a heck of a lot closer to being competitive with them than we are with Villanova or Delaware.
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