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Post by RockawayHoya on Jul 17, 2020 14:53:20 GMT -5
It's as simple as this, Coach Ewing must get a Baltimore and DC guy for local recruiting. The staff must get younger; the age of the guys he has is being used negatively I'm hearing. If this doesn't happen, unfortunately, it will cost him his job, sooner rather than later. For his sake, I hope Coach Ewing swallows his pride and make the necessary changes. Honestly, this (assistant turnover) is something I had hoped would have happened the day after we lost to SJU (again) in the BET. The fear was that if we didn't quickly pivot and alter the perception of recruits (especially locally) ASAP it would be a lost spring/summer of recruiting. And that's something this program, especially coming off all the defections, couldn't afford. Well, it's happened. Some might argue COVID stalled these plans, but let's be real here: at least 1-2 assistants should have been handed pink slips around the time Gobert got his test result back. As several posters have already pointed out, the result of this particular recruitment really hurts. I wasn't that mad over Cisse because I knew that was a highest-bidder situation we were never positioned to realistically win. But agree on Allen: local kid, position of need, true talent level has been debated but it's certainly higher than anything we've been able to bring in as of late. The part that kills me the most is that we were on him the longest. We know this current staff has been late to the party on numerous occasions when it comes to local recruits, but to also now strike out on a kid when we were first? That tells me that nothing is working and whatever the message is, it's not getting through to the players.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2020 15:29:06 GMT -5
I'm sad.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Jul 17, 2020 15:39:49 GMT -5
How do we lose a DC private-school kid to Colorado?
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dense
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Post by dense on Jul 17, 2020 15:42:41 GMT -5
The only silver lining in this loss is that Allen might not actually be that good. You'd expect a top 60-ish national kid to at least make All-Met. Somehow he managed to not be in the top 4 teams or 50 or so honorable mentions -- not last year either. Others have voiced their opinion on the board that he's not deserving of his current ranking. I'm not trying to discount any of the venting -- there's plenty of things to beef about. But I'm still as hopeful as I was yesterday that the '21 class will be a good one. One poster(I think its Problem of Dog) has been saying the kid isn't that good.thats why big schools weren't in on him.
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Post by trillesthoya on Jul 17, 2020 15:55:47 GMT -5
The only silver lining in this loss is that Allen might not actually be that good. You'd expect a top 60-ish national kid to at least make All-Met. Somehow he managed to not be in the top 4 teams or 50 or so honorable mentions -- not last year either. Others have voiced their opinion on the board that he's not deserving of his current ranking. I'm not trying to discount any of the venting -- there's plenty of things to beef about. But I'm still as hopeful as I was yesterday that the '21 class will be a good one. One poster(I think its Problem of Dog) has been saying the kid isn't that good.thats why big schools weren't in on him. He struggled big time against inferior talent. Part of that is injury, but it seems like the bigger dogs lost interest. Wonder if we are included in that group.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jul 17, 2020 15:56:16 GMT -5
The only silver lining in this loss is that Allen might not actually be that good. You'd expect a top 60-ish national kid to at least make All-Met. Somehow he managed to not be in the top 4 teams or 50 or so honorable mentions -- not last year either. Others have voiced their opinion on the board that he's not deserving of his current ranking. I'm not trying to discount any of the venting -- there's plenty of things to beef about. But I'm still as hopeful as I was yesterday that the '21 class will be a good one. One poster(I think its Problem of Dog) has been saying the kid isn't that good.thats why big schools weren't in on him. I never like the "maybe he's not that good anyway" sour grapes. If he's not that good, and he still doesn't want to come, what does it say about us that "Coach Ewing has probably been on me the longest and hardest"?
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Post by njhoyalawya on Jul 17, 2020 17:07:55 GMT -5
One poster(I think its Problem of Dog) has been saying the kid isn't that good.thats why big schools weren't in on him. I never like the "maybe he's not that good anyway" sour grapes. If he's not that good, and he still doesn't want to come, what does it say about us that "Coach Ewing has probably been on me the longest and hardest"? Someone with claimed reliable information said that we had not been pushing for him recently. Bottom line is that we do not (and probably never will) know the true dynamics and facts behind the various recruitments.
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Jul 17, 2020 17:13:24 GMT -5
I never like the "maybe he's not that good anyway" sour grapes. If he's not that good, and he still doesn't want to come, what does it say about us that "Coach Ewing has probably been on me the longest and hardest"? Someone with claimed reliable information said that we had not been pushing for him recently. Bottom line is that we do not (and probably never will) know the true dynamics and facts behind the various recruitments. That's just not true. Allen himself a little over a month ago said, "Coach Ewing has probably been on me the longest and hardest. He gave me my first big offer so I really respect the loyalty. He is trying to rebuild the Georgetown program and get to where they were when he was playing there. I like the style of play and the coaching staff, they seem really cool."
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Post by HometownHoya on Jul 17, 2020 17:29:04 GMT -5
How do we lose a DC private-school kid to Colorado? As a DC private-school kid that is in Colorado, very easily. Colorado is a basketball program on the rise. They're still middle of the PAC-12 but they've made gains on the top programs. Plus CU-Boulder is a beautiful campus with a great student population. It's definitely a different speed of life and an east coast elite school is not for everyone. That said, I'm disappointed we couldn't pull this one off. Maybe CU fans have been more behind Quincy where we still have people poo-pooing his game. Maybe it's our current standing in the BE. Who knows but good luck to Quincy and I hope we get a DC recruit soon.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2020 17:33:59 GMT -5
One poster(I think its Problem of Dog) has been saying the kid isn't that good.thats why big schools weren't in on him. I never like the "maybe he's not that good anyway" sour grapes. If he's not that good, and he still doesn't want to come, what does it say about us that "Coach Ewing has probably been on me the longest and hardest"? If Pat really wanted him, sure - that's not a good look. It still doesn't mean he's played like a 4-star kid to this point. There are a lot of reason why it could've been a good addition - local/TTO, nominal top 60 kid, 1st recruit of '21 class, we need forwards, and mostly... we need some good news. But I've heard more questions about his actual game than any ranked recent GU recruit I can recall. Stephen Domingo 2.0 has been mentioned. For the most part, pointing out that he might not be as talented as his rankings is more to talk everybody off the ledge than it is to make myself feel better. As I wrote yesterday, the Hoya faithful are shell-shocked at this point and everything that doesn't go our way just adds to the despair. But I genuinely like Sibley better at the 3 going forward, and hadn't penciled Allen into any personal best-case recruiting class for 2021. I don't want to be overly negative about any kid, ours or not. But pointing out that it might not be a huge miss is difficult in this case when the evidence is a review of Allen's actual production.
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Post by HometownHoya on Jul 17, 2020 17:36:04 GMT -5
I never like the "maybe he's not that good anyway" sour grapes. If he's not that good, and he still doesn't want to come, what does it say about us that "Coach Ewing has probably been on me the longest and hardest"? If Pat really wanted him, sure - that's not a good look. It still doesn't mean he's played like a 4-star kid to this point. There are a lot of reason why it could've been a good addition - local/TTO, nominal top 60 kid, 1st recruit of '21 class, we need forwards, and mostly... we need some good news. But I've heard more questions about his actual game than any ranked recent GU recruit I can recall. Stephen Domingo 2.0 has been mentioned. For the most part, pointing out that he might not be as talented as his rankings is more to talk everybody off the ledge than it is to make myself feel better. As I wrote yesterday, the Hoya faithful are shell-shocked at this point and everything that doesn't go our way just adds to the despair. But I genuinely like Sibley better at the 3 going forward, and hadn't penciled Allen into any personal best-case recruiting class for 2021. I don't want to be overly negative about any kid, ours or not. But pointing out that it might not be a huge miss is difficult in this case when the evidence is a review of Allen's actual production. Honestly it seems like more of the angst isn't about Qunicy Allen directly but about "missing" on another DC recruit that Pat did prioritize earlier. I agree with those that have mentioned that we had seemed to have backed off but it still doesn't help the optics.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2020 17:41:13 GMT -5
If Pat really wanted him, sure - that's not a good look. It still doesn't mean he's played like a 4-star kid to this point. There are a lot of reason why it could've been a good addition - local/TTO, nominal top 60 kid, 1st recruit of '21 class, we need forwards, and mostly... we need some good news. But I've heard more questions about his actual game than any ranked recent GU recruit I can recall. Stephen Domingo 2.0 has been mentioned. For the most part, pointing out that he might not be as talented as his rankings is more to talk everybody off the ledge than it is to make myself feel better. As I wrote yesterday, the Hoya faithful are shell-shocked at this point and everything that doesn't go our way just adds to the despair. But I genuinely like Sibley better at the 3 going forward, and hadn't penciled Allen into any personal best-case recruiting class for 2021. I don't want to be overly negative about any kid, ours or not. But pointing out that it might not be a huge miss is difficult in this case when the evidence is a review of Allen's actual production. Honestly it seems like more of the angst isn't about Qunicy Allen directly but about "missing" on another DC recruit that Pat did prioritize earlier. I agree with those that have mentioned that we had seemed to have backed off but it still doesn't help the optics. Yep. It hurts enough to watch Duke, UNC, Nova, and others swipe all the top-tier locals - let alone Colorado. I wish we could build 75% of our lineup from local talent. But we're not there. Pat's got a make-or-break recruiting class coming up, so I get ALL the angst. I'm right there with everybody. I'm just trying to break up the pity party.
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dense
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Post by dense on Jul 17, 2020 17:45:06 GMT -5
One poster(I think its Problem of Dog) has been saying the kid isn't that good.thats why big schools weren't in on him. I never like the "maybe he's not that good anyway" sour grapes. If he's not that good, and he still doesn't want to come, what does it say about us that "Coach Ewing has probably been on me the longest and hardest"? Eh, normally I agree but people are acting like he was a make or break recruit in the comments. The poster had been saying the same thing from jump and sees most of these local kids.
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jul 17, 2020 19:05:39 GMT -5
HOYA FANS PLEASE STEP AWAY FROM THE LEDGE....
Good grief it feels like every DMV kid that list Georgetown you expect the staff to get a commitment from while also getting any of the national players that are listing Georgetown, but if they don't get them, your mad that the staff "wasted it's time". As of right now the staff has five maybe six schollys for 2021 and yet you all want then to secure a commitment from every kid that's listing the Hoyas talented or not...its beyond laughable.
I reiterate, We have no idea how involved the staff was with Allen, particularly the last couple months. Had no idea he was even announcing his commitment today until...today. Yes it was reported by Allen last winter the staff was heavily involved. But what's his definition of heavily involved? Are they calling him everyday or is he hyping himself up?
The other thing that needs to stop is the bashing of Coach Waheed dos out there by all reports working his ass off with recruits. He obvious has a great eye for talent. He was the first high major asst tracking and offering RJ Davis 6 months before he blew up. The staff couldn't close the deal because he wanted to play at a "Blue Blood". So he picked the school that by all reports recruited him the least. We will see how well that works out for him.
Waheed also was the one with the contacts on the west coast that got word early Ackinjo was de-commiting from UConn so Coach Ewing would be the first Coach to meet with him in person day of his de-commitment. Waheed also was the lead on Terrance Williams who did originally commit. Williams change heart has less to do with Georgetown and more to do with the bigger picture. Kids don't want to stay home for college like they did in the 80's and 90's. I always wonder how many of you posters on here screaming the staff needs to get every DMV kid are actually from the DMV and stayed home yourself when making that decision. I know I didn't stay in California where I went to high school because I wanted to get away and have new experiences. I suspect a lot of these DMV kids as well as kids from all over do as well. We will see if COVID temporarily changes that.
Lastly stop getting caught up with the arbitrary number or stars that someone who never played the game or in most cases even coached game put next to these kids name. I have no idea if Allen is worthy of the "ranking he's been given". He's long, athletic, and reportedly could shoot. A lot of players with that same characteristics out there that don't show up when the lights are on. We will see how he does. As talented as they are, most "top ranked" recent DMV prospects have been okay at best in college. The ones that have shined lately are the ones that were highly overlooked by those know nothing's that rob your attention by giving out these arbitrary numbers & stars. The last two DMV kids that really impressed me were Josh Hart & Saddiq Bey.
I'll say it again, everybody outside of the top 5-10 in any given class is relatively the same. It's more about the fit at what school they choose and seizing that opportunity.
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Post by wponds on Jul 17, 2020 19:47:58 GMT -5
HOYA FANS PLEASE STEP AWAY FROM THE LEDGE.... Good grief it feels like every DMV kid that list Georgetown you expect the staff to get a commitment from while also getting any of the national players that are listing Georgetown, but if they don't get them, your mad that the staff "wasted it's time". As of right now the staff has five maybe six schollys for 2021 and yet you all want then to secure a commitment from every kid that's listing the Hoyas talented or not...its beyond laughable. I reiterate, We have no idea how involved the staff was with Allen, particularly the last couple months. Had no idea he was even announcing his commitment today until...today. Yes it was reported by Allen last winter the staff was heavily involved. But what's his definition of heavily involved? Are they calling him everyday or is he hyping himself up? The other thing that needs to stop is the bashing of Coach Waheed dos out there by all reports working his ass off with recruits. He obvious has a great eye for talent. He was the first high major asst tracking and offering RJ Davis 6 months before he blew up. The staff couldn't close the deal because he wanted to play at a "Blue Blood". So he picked the school that by all reports recruited him the least. We will see how well that works out for him. Waheed also was the one with the contacts on the west coast that got word early Ackinjo was de-commiting from UConn so Coach Ewing would be the first Coach to meet with him in person day of his de-commitment. Waheed also was the lead on Terrance Williams who did originally commit. Williams change heart has less to do with Georgetown and more to do with the bigger picture. Kids don't want to stay home for college like they did in the 80's and 90's. I always wonder how many of you posters on here screaming the staff needs to get every DMV kid are actually from the DMV and stayed home yourself when making that decision. I know I didn't stay in California where I went to high school because I wanted to get away and have new experiences. I suspect a lot of these DMV kids as well as kids from all over do as well. We will see if COVID temporarily changes that. Lastly stop getting caught up with the arbitrary number or stars that someone who never played the game or in most cases even coached game put next to these kids name. I have no idea if Allen is worthy of the "ranking he's been given". He's long, athletic, and reportedly could shoot. A lot of players with that same characteristics out there that don't show up when the lights are on. We will see how he does. As talented as they are, most "top ranked" recent DMV prospects have been okay at best in college. The ones that have shined lately are the ones that were highly overlooked by those know nothing's that rob your attention by giving out these arbitrary numbers & stars. The last two DMV kids that really impressed me were Josh Hart & Saddiq Bey. I'll say it again, everybody outside of the top 5-10 in any given class is relatively the same. It's more about the fit at what school they choose and seizing that opportunity. I agree with some of your points, but just wanted to mention that as recently as June 12, he said Georgetown had been on him the "longest and hardest" (pg 4 of this thread) Aside from that, my main gripe isn't with any one staff member in particular, but moreso that when Pat got hired, he made it clear that he wanted to do well recruiting in the DMV. I know there's a lot that goes into each specific recruit, but there is a very high likelihood that by the time Quincy Allen steps foot on campus in Colorado, they will have as many players from the DMV as we do
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Post by Problem of Dog on Jul 17, 2020 20:52:01 GMT -5
I think two things are true:
1) Our area recruiting is really not very strong, and it's frustrating to see that it seems like we're shooting for top guys from out of the area, just so we can make someone's Instagram Final 5!!! without any real shot of landing them. Efforts that could be better spent elsewhere. 2) We may not have pushed for Allen, despite what he has said, because since he picked up a high ranking and early offers, he hasn't developed at all. I have to believe, to some extent, his commitment to a place like Colorado reflects that he started to fall down the priority list for some of the schools on his list. Would we have taken him? Sure. But was he a priority? I doubt it.
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Jul 17, 2020 20:56:28 GMT -5
HOYA FANS PLEASE STEP AWAY FROM THE LEDGE.... Good grief it feels like every DMV kid that list Georgetown you expect the staff to get a commitment from while also getting any of the national players that are listing Georgetown, but if they don't get them, your mad that the staff "wasted it's time". As of right now the staff has five maybe six schollys for 2021 and yet you all want then to secure a commitment from every kid that's listing the Hoyas talented or not...its beyond laughable.I reiterate, We have no idea how involved the staff was with Allen, particularly the last couple months. Had no idea he was even announcing his commitment today until...today. Yes it was reported by Allen last winter the staff was heavily involved. But what's his definition of heavily involved? Are they calling him everyday or is he hyping himself up? The other thing that needs to stop is the bashing of Coach Waheed dos out there by all reports working his ass off with recruits. He obvious has a great eye for talent. He was the first high major asst tracking and offering RJ Davis 6 months before he blew up. The staff couldn't close the deal because he wanted to play at a "Blue Blood". So he picked the school that by all reports recruited him the least. We will see how well that works out for him. Waheed also was the one with the contacts on the west coast that got word early A ckinjo was de-commiting from UConn so Coach Ewing would be the first Coach to meet with him in person day of his de-commitment. Waheed also was the lead on Terrance Williams who did originally commit. Williams change heart has less to do with Georgetown and more to do with the bigger picture. Kids don't want to stay home for college like they did in the 80's and 90's. I always wonder how many of you posters on here screaming the staff needs to get every DMV kid are actually from the DMV and stayed home yourself when making that decision. I know I didn't stay in California where I went to high school because I wanted to get away and have new experiences. I suspect a lot of these DMV kids as well as kids from all over do as well. We will see if COVID temporarily changes that. Lastly stop getting caught up with the arbitrary number or stars that someone who never played the game or in most cases even coached game put next to these kids name. I have no idea if Allen is worthy of the "ranking he's been given". He's long, athletic, and reportedly could shoot. A lot of players with that same characteristics out there that don't show up when the lights are on. We will see how he does. As talented as they are, most "top ranked" recent DMV prospects have been okay at best in college. The ones that have shined lately are the ones that were highly overlooked by those know nothing's that rob your attention by giving out these arbitrary numbers & stars. The last two DMV kids that really impressed me were Josh Hart & Saddiq Bey. I'll say it again, everybody outside of the top 5-10 in any given class is relatively the same. It's more about the fit at what school they choose and seizing that opportunity. Alright, here's my take. Firstly, yes we want the Hoyas to land commits. Obviously, as this is the team we root for. I wouldn't be on this board in July if I didn't want the Hoyas to win. Allen is top 60. That's right in the range we should be looking at. You can say he should be lower, but I think he's a Big East level talent and would be one of our better players from day one. The kid is talented. Now, could I be wrong in saying this? Absolutely. But, it seems to be a pretty safe bet to me that he's skilled and could compete at this level. I want the staff to get the most talented kids and I don't want them getting low major level players. Also, saying the kid is potentially lying in his interview about how often the Hoyas talk to him just seems crazy to me. He said, in June, that "Coach Ewing has probably been on me the longest and hardest. He gave me my first big offer so I really respect the loyalty. He is trying to rebuild the Georgetown program and get to where they were when he was playing there. I like the style of play and the coaching staff, they seem really cool." So, here we have an idea of how involved the staff was and how this is a big miss. We don't have the same info for someone like Cisse, so the situation is different. But here, we have information that says this is a guy the staff wanted and whiffed on. It's about starting the make or break class for Pat. This class is huge. It can still go well, but this is not a good start. If we can get another guy early on, that could really help the program. As for Coach Waheed, first off results matter. If I was the head coach of Georgetown Basketball, I'd work my ass off. But, the team would probably not be very good. My results would matter more than the effort I'd be putting in. The same thing for Waheed. That being said, on his eye for talent looking at RJ Davis (I found this information by typing RJ Davis offer into the twitter search bar and hitting the page down button a lot) our offer was reported on February 15th of 2019 by the Stepinac Basketball twitter account. RJ Davis received 11 high major offers by the time UNC offered on July 17th, including UCLA and Kansas. So, Waheed was not six months early. If we go earlier, we can see that Cincy (Jan 17th), Penn State (Oct 25, 2018), Seton Hall (June 15, 2018), Maryland (April 17, 2018), Illinois (March 23, 2018) and St. John's (March 8, 2018) all offered before. Now, I don't think any of this matters much, but it absolutely would not have had Waheed been able to land a recruit. But, for our guy with local connections, I'm not sure if those have been working (granted I thought Pat took the lead on this recruitment) and how well he's done as a recruiter (that's a genuine question, I've been under the impression Kirby or Ewing have landed essentially every recruit coming to the Hilltop next season, but I can't say that for a fact). So, to summarize, results matter more to me than effort and I'm not sure everything you mentioned is true. I have no idea about West Coast connections, so I'll assume that's true. As for the numbers/stars point, I generally agree. Not to the same extent, but I agree. Fit means a lot more. I think some guys are really underrated and some that are really overrated. For example, I think Beard should've been top 100. I can give more examples, but this one best fits this board. I wouldn't go as far as to say that the 11th rated kid is pretty much the same as the 100th ranked kid, but I can get behind the idea. I don't think losing Allen is the end all be all, but it's not a good thing. It just shines a light on our horrible DMV recruiting (even with effort put in) and losing a guy we clearly wanted hurts. I want this class to be so good as I think it means so much and so far we aren't looking great. Lotta time left, but it's not the best start.
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Omega
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Post by Omega on Jul 17, 2020 21:47:28 GMT -5
I think two things are true: 1) Our area recruiting is really not very strong, and it's frustrating to see that it seems like we're shooting for top guys from out of the area, just so we can make someone's Instagram Final 5!!! without any real shot of landing them. Efforts that could be better spent elsewhere. 2) We may not have pushed for Allen, despite what he has said, because since he picked up a high ranking and early offers, he hasn't developed at all. I have to believe, to some extent, his commitment to a place like Colorado reflects that he started to fall down the priority list for some of the schools on his list. Would we have taken him? Sure. But was he a priority? I doubt it.
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Omega
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Post by Omega on Jul 17, 2020 21:48:53 GMT -5
I think two things are true: 1) Our area recruiting is really not very strong, and it's frustrating to see that it seems like we're shooting for top guys from out of the area, just so we can make someone's Instagram Final 5!!! without any real shot of landing them. Efforts that could be better spent elsewhere. 2) We may not have pushed for Allen, despite what he has said, because since he picked up a high ranking and early offers, he hasn't developed at all. I have to believe, to some extent, his commitment to a place like Colorado reflects that he started to fall down the priority list for some of the schools on his list. Would we have taken him? Sure. But was he a priority? I doubt it. You recruit the players who show interest.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jul 17, 2020 23:39:20 GMT -5
As far as recruiters go, working your butt off is a prerequisite for landing the job. Results are what keep you in your job.
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