guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,605
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Post by guru on Feb 7, 2020 21:37:46 GMT -5
Hoyasince83, if you hate Mac that much and you feel he's undeserving of a starting position, then, why not ask other Big East coaches if they would take him right now? I can't speak for those coaches but I imagine most except maybe Villanova would take him on. Taking him in and playing him, let alone starting him are two different things. He would likely be a DNP Coaches Decision every night for at least half the teams in the Big East. The others would likely use him in a limited reserve role of 10 to 15 minutes per game. He definitely couldn't or shouldn't be starting for anyone in the Big East, including us. You don’t come across as a very bright person
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Post by hoyasince83 on Feb 7, 2020 21:49:49 GMT -5
Exactly! See I never said Mac shouldn't play. He's currently our 7th best player and would be valuable as a scorer off the bench for 12 to 15 minutes per game. That little bit of extra scoring he could provide combined with the few extra minutes of rest he could provide for Blair and the others would help tremendously. You mean multiple Player of the Week award winner Mac McClung? That doesn't mean much. Cole Anthony will likely be a top 5 or 10 pick in the draft. Have you watched him play? I would call Mac a poor mans version of him. Their style of play is identical. Cole is just more skilled and athletic. Still, the guy is terrible, and his shot selection is even worse than Mac's. Shoots 35% from the field. Scary to imagine if he had come here to see him, Mac and Akinjo in a game together. Good defense and team basketball on offense are the keys to winning basketball at the college level. That's what makes guys like Jagan and Allen so valuable, while guys like Mac and Cole are good for highlight reels but not wins.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,332
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Post by tashoya on Feb 7, 2020 22:36:42 GMT -5
You mean multiple Player of the Week award winner Mac McClung? That doesn't mean much. Cole Anthony will likely be a top 5 or 10 pick in the draft. Have you watched him play? I would call Mac a poor mans version of him. Their style of play is identical. Cole is just more skilled and athletic. Still, the guy is terrible, and his shot selection is even worse than Mac's. Shoots 35% from the field. Scary to imagine if he had come here to see him, Mac and Akinjo in a game together. Good defense and team basketball on offense are the keys to winning basketball at the college level. That's what makes guys like Jagan and Allen so valuable, while guys like Mac and Cole are good for highlight reels but not wins. This may make less sense than the Mac stuff. If you think Mac ran Akinjo off, Akinjo likely wouldn't have suited up for a single game if Cole had committed. Akinjo's biggest hole in his game is his brain. Until he realizes that being friends with Dame doesn't make him Dame, he's going to struggle.
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mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,567
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Post by mdtd on Feb 7, 2020 23:01:30 GMT -5
You mean multiple Player of the Week award winner Mac McClung? That doesn't mean much. Cole Anthony will likely be a top 5 or 10 pick in the draft. Have you watched him play? I would call Mac a poor mans version of him. Their style of play is identical. Cole is just more skilled and athletic. Still, the guy is terrible, and his shot selection is even worse than Mac's. Shoots 35% from the field. Scary to imagine if he had come here to see him, Mac and Akinjo in a game together. Good defense and team basketball on offense are the keys to winning basketball at the college level. That's what makes guys like Jagan and Allen so valuable, while guys like Mac and Cole are good for highlight reels but not wins. I can agree that Cole has under performed. Now, he has less than 0 help on that team, but he hasn't played up to the hype. And Cole Anthony, a top five to 10 pick as you said, is not terrible by any means. So that's another just insane thing to say. Also, do you just hate players that score the ball? Do you hate players that create their own shot? That's the only consistent I've noticed in you "assessment" of the game of basketball. Any scorer mentioned is someone you hate. And when someone, like Mac has accomplishments to back up their level of play you shrug them off, for no reason. It's insane.
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Post by nattybumpo3152 on Feb 7, 2020 23:10:18 GMT -5
LOL Guru
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,966
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 7, 2020 23:23:08 GMT -5
That doesn't mean much. Cole Anthony will likely be a top 5 or 10 pick in the draft. Have you watched him play? I would call Mac a poor mans version of him. Their style of play is identical. Cole is just more skilled and athletic. Still, the guy is terrible, and his shot selection is even worse than Mac's. Shoots 35% from the field. Scary to imagine if he had come here to see him, Mac and Akinjo in a game together. Good defense and team basketball on offense are the keys to winning basketball at the college level. That's what makes guys like Jagan and Allen so valuable, while guys like Mac and Cole are good for highlight reels but not wins. I can agree that Cole has under performed. Now, he has less than 0 help on that team, but he hasn't played up to the hype. And Cole Anthony, a top five to 10 pick as you said, is not terrible by any means. So that's another just insane thing to say. Also, do you just hate players that score the ball? Do you hate players that create their own shot? That's the only consistent I've noticed in you "assessment" of the game of basketball. Any scorer mentioned is someone you hate. And when someone, like Mac has accomplishments to back up their level of play you shrug them off, for no reason. It's insane. What does this actually mean to you? I read you & a few others talking about being able to create their own shot but I'm not sure why you think it's such a good attribute...
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mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,567
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Post by mdtd on Feb 7, 2020 23:41:29 GMT -5
I can agree that Cole has under performed. Now, he has less than 0 help on that team, but he hasn't played up to the hype. And Cole Anthony, a top five to 10 pick as you said, is not terrible by any means. So that's another just insane thing to say. Also, do you just hate players that score the ball? Do you hate players that create their own shot? That's the only consistent I've noticed in you "assessment" of the game of basketball. Any scorer mentioned is someone you hate. And when someone, like Mac has accomplishments to back up their level of play you shrug them off, for no reason. It's insane. What does this actually mean to you? I read you & a few others talking about being able to create their own shot but I'm not sure why you think it's such a good attribute... To me it just means that someone s able to get a good look in an isolation set. Just the possession breaks down and you need someone who you can give the ball to and let them create. It's hugely important because not every single possession offensively, or every offensive set is going to work. If you can give it to one of these guys who can create for themselves, you are giving yourself another opportunity to score. When a play breaks down and you need a bucket, you can give the ball to a creator and allow them to work. In that case I couldn't give it to an Allen, Mosely or Pickett and just say make a move. But I could give it to someone like Mac and see what they can do. It's essentially just another way for the team to score when a play breaks down. Another way I like to look at it as it helps to keep a set working smoothly, for lack of better phrasing. What I mean by that is no matter when he has the ball, the defense has to focus on and stay with Mac. If he gets some room, if he's able to get open he can break down the defense and get himself a good look. This helps to open up looks for others, as guys have to focus on helping out on McClung if he gets past his guy. His ability to create could open up looks for others, even if he doesn't touch the ball. In a set, if Mac is given the ball, he also has the ability to take advantage of his defender based on how he is being guarded. On this team, Blair is sort of a threat to score of the dribble and Mac is. Everyone else is very inconsistent at creating a shot off of the dribble on their own. Having someone who can create shots in many different ways, just makes them significantly harder to defend and creates lanes for others.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,966
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 8, 2020 0:52:52 GMT -5
What does this actually mean to you? I read you & a few others talking about being able to create their own shot but I'm not sure why you think it's such a good attribute... To me it just means that someone s able to get a good look in an isolation set. Just the possession breaks down and you need someone who you can give the ball to and let them create. It's hugely important because not every single possession offensively, or every offensive set is going to work. If you can give it to one of these guys who can create for themselves, you are giving yourself another opportunity to score. When a play breaks down and you need a bucket, you can give the ball to a creator and allow them to work. In that case I couldn't give it to an Allen, Mosely or Pickett and just say make a move. But I could give it to someone like Mac and see what they can do. It's essentially just another way for the team to score when a play breaks down. Another way I like to look at it as it helps to keep a set working smoothly, for lack of better phrasing. What I mean by that is no matter when he has the ball, the defense has to focus on and stay with Mac. If he gets some room, if he's able to get open he can break down the defense and get himself a good look. This helps to open up looks for others, as guys have to focus on helping out on McClung if he gets past his guy. His ability to create could open up looks for others, even if he doesn't touch the ball. In a set, if Mac is given the ball, he also has the ability to take advantage of his defender based on how he is being guarded. On this team, Blair is sort of a threat to score of the dribble and Mac is. Everyone else is very inconsistent at creating a shot off of the dribble on their own. Having someone who can create shots in many different ways, just makes them significantly harder to defend and creates lanes for others. Ok, fair enough but how much do you think this isolation skill is used by Mac and how much does it actually help the team? According to stats from Synergy Mac has had 31(357 overall) isolation type possessions this season in 20 games this season. Those possessions have accounted for 25 points... If this is one of his top skills it's not being used very much.
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Post by hoyasince83 on Feb 8, 2020 1:48:44 GMT -5
That doesn't mean much. Cole Anthony will likely be a top 5 or 10 pick in the draft. Have you watched him play? I would call Mac a poor mans version of him. Their style of play is identical. Cole is just more skilled and athletic. Still, the guy is terrible, and his shot selection is even worse than Mac's. Shoots 35% from the field. Scary to imagine if he had come here to see him, Mac and Akinjo in a game together. Good defense and team basketball on offense are the keys to winning basketball at the college level. That's what makes guys like Jagan and Allen so valuable, while guys like Mac and Cole are good for highlight reels but not wins. I can agree that Cole has under performed. Now, he has less than 0 help on that team, but he hasn't played up to the hype. And Cole Anthony, a top five to 10 pick as you said, is not terrible by any means. So that's another just insane thing to say. Also, do you just hate players that score the ball? Do you hate players that create their own shot? That's the only consistent I've noticed in you "assessment" of the game of basketball. Any scorer mentioned is someone you hate. And when someone, like Mac has accomplishments to back up their level of play you shrug them off, for no reason. It's insane. Being a scorer is great if you can do it efficiently. Zion was a scorer but did it extremely efficiently. Mac and Cole are scorers but are highly inefficient. In the case of Cole, he at least rebounds well for a guard and get's to the line quite a bit, those things plus better defense put him a notch above Mac. Still, he is way too inefficient to be considered anything other than a bad player. He also has as many turnovers as assists. He has the talent to someday become an excellent and efficient player, but we all know he's a one and done guy so that has no value for North Carolina. In the NBA, who knows, he could become a star. He needs a few years to continue to improve his game, but the rules and style of play cater to players like him in the NBA so it may work out for him in the end. That doesn't discount the fact that as a college player today, he is not good. As for Mac, he is clearly a 4 year player since the NBA is out of reach for him. Unfortunately for him, unlike Cole he doesn't have the talent level to ever be an efficient player, even as a senior. His only chance would be to change his mindset and how he plays the game. Everyone says he is coachable. He is not. He plays the same today as he did as a freshman. He will play the same as a senior as he does now. He has tunnel vision and only looks to score. But he's not physically gifted enough to make enough tough shots to be an efficient player. Guys like him and Cole will have a good and efficient scoring game one out of every five or so and their team will win, and that will be enough to keep the fan boys going and thinking how great their guy is. But it's always fools gold, because they can never do it consistently. They do it just enough for people to not lose faith in them. Then reel off 4 or 5 bad games in a row again. Clearly Etomic B seems to agree with me. And while HOYAPLAYA might not agree with me on everything, he seems to have the same mindset as me regarding Mac's value or lack thereof on the basketball court. I'm sure there are many others who agree but choose to stay silent for various reasons. I just want what's best for the program and winning games.
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Post by njhoyalawya on Feb 8, 2020 6:45:29 GMT -5
I can agree that Cole has under performed. Now, he has less than 0 help on that team, but he hasn't played up to the hype. And Cole Anthony, a top five to 10 pick as you said, is not terrible by any means. So that's another just insane thing to say. Also, do you just hate players that score the ball? Do you hate players that create their own shot? That's the only consistent I've noticed in you "assessment" of the game of basketball. Any scorer mentioned is someone you hate. And when someone, like Mac has accomplishments to back up their level of play you shrug them off, for no reason. It's insane. Being a scorer is great if you can do it efficiently. Zion was a scorer but did it extremely efficiently. Mac and Cole are scorers but are highly inefficient. In the case of Cole, he at least rebounds well for a guard and get's to the line quite a bit, those things plus better defense put him a notch above Mac. Still, he is way too inefficient to be considered anything other than a bad player. He also has as many turnovers as assists. He has the talent to someday become an excellent and efficient player, but we all know he's a one and done guy so that has no value for North Carolina. In the NBA, who knows, he could become a star. He needs a few years to continue to improve his game, but the rules and style of play cater to players like him in the NBA so it may work out for him in the end. That doesn't discount the fact that as a college player today, he is not good. As for Mac, he is clearly a 4 year player since the NBA is out of reach for him. Unfortunately for him, unlike Cole he doesn't have the talent level to ever be an efficient player, even as a senior. His only chance would be to change his mindset and how he plays the game. Everyone says he is coachable. He is not. He plays the same today as he did as a freshman. He will play the same as a senior as he does now. He has tunnel vision and only looks to score. But he's not physically gifted enough to make enough tough shots to be an efficient player. Guys like him and Cole will have a good and efficient scoring game one out of every five or so and their team will win, and that will be enough to keep the fan boys going and thinking how great their guy is. But it's always fools gold, because they can never do it consistently. They do it just enough for people to not lose faith in them. Then reel off 4 or 5 bad games in a row again. Clearly Etomic B seems to agree with me. And while HOYAPLAYA might not agree with me on everything, he seems to have the same mindset as me regarding Mac's value or lack thereof on the basketball court. I'm sure there are many others who agree but choose to stay silent for various reasons. I just want what's best for the program and winning games. And how exactly is your blasting of an existing player the best for the program or going to help win games? If you think the coaching staff or powers that be are somehow considering your opinion, or that you are going to impact the direction of this team or program, you clearly do not know Georgetown basketball. I’ve been around since before 1983, and I know that.
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Post by hoya19809 on Feb 8, 2020 7:17:00 GMT -5
Pls with the trashing of Cole Anthony, the kid has only played a handful of games (7). Also it says something about Cole's character that he decided to comeback and play at UNC after his injury.
As for Mac, we are better with him then without him. It is great that Blair has gained more confidence, but we should not use that to knock Mac.
Mac's defense has gotten better and his hustle is not be in question. His shot selection can be questionable, but with a thin bench Pat has had to leave him in. That alson goes for Yurtz.
Something, I have not seen mentioned by all the John Wooden's commentating is that our offensive has moved better becUse Yurtz has kicked it out more for the post. The kickout is what has allowed the skip pass, not the lack of Mac.
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Post by bigelephant on Feb 8, 2020 7:23:25 GMT -5
And how exactly is your blasting of an existing player the best for the program or going to help win games? If you think the coaching staff or powers that be are somehow considering your opinion, or that you are going to impact the direction of this team or program, you clearly do not know Georgetown basketball. I’ve been around since before 1983, and I know that. I could not agree more. Mac plays the way the coaches want him to play. And while is is suffering from multiple injuries, his defense is much much better this year. To steal the ball and go in for pretty much uncontested layups requires a certain ability to slough off your man occasionally etc.etc. And further, he is still nagged by injuries and it my opinion that he probably wont play today. I'm just hoping that Pat can use him for a couple of minutes at the end if we are in a bad situation score-wise. Just saying.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 8, 2020 8:02:44 GMT -5
To me it just means that someone s able to get a good look in an isolation set. Just the possession breaks down and you need someone who you can give the ball to and let them create. It's hugely important because not every single possession offensively, or every offensive set is going to work. If you can give it to one of these guys who can create for themselves, you are giving yourself another opportunity to score. When a play breaks down and you need a bucket, you can give the ball to a creator and allow them to work. In that case I couldn't give it to an Allen, Mosely or Pickett and just say make a move. But I could give it to someone like Mac and see what they can do. It's essentially just another way for the team to score when a play breaks down. Another way I like to look at it as it helps to keep a set working smoothly, for lack of better phrasing. What I mean by that is no matter when he has the ball, the defense has to focus on and stay with Mac. If he gets some room, if he's able to get open he can break down the defense and get himself a good look. This helps to open up looks for others, as guys have to focus on helping out on McClung if he gets past his guy. His ability to create could open up looks for others, even if he doesn't touch the ball. In a set, if Mac is given the ball, he also has the ability to take advantage of his defender based on how he is being guarded. On this team, Blair is sort of a threat to score of the dribble and Mac is. Everyone else is very inconsistent at creating a shot off of the dribble on their own. Having someone who can create shots in many different ways, just makes them significantly harder to defend and creates lanes for others. Ok, fair enough but how much do you think this isolation skill is used by Mac and how much does it actually help the team? According to stats from Synergy Mac has had 31(357 overall) isolation type possessions this season in 20 games this season. Those possessions have accounted for 25 points... If this is one of his top skills it's not being used very much. And according to those numbers he’s not very efficient in isolation either.
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rlo24
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 337
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Post by rlo24 on Feb 8, 2020 9:46:41 GMT -5
What does this actually mean to you? I read you & a few others talking about being able to create their own shot but I'm not sure why you think it's such a good attribute... To me it just means that someone s able to get a good look in an isolation set. Just the possession breaks down and you need someone who you can give the ball to and let them create. It's hugely important because not every single possession offensively, or every offensive set is going to work. If you can give it to one of these guys who can create for themselves, you are giving yourself another opportunity to score. When a play breaks down and you need a bucket, you can give the ball to a creator and allow them to work. In that case I couldn't give it to an Allen, Mosely or Pickett and just say make a move. But I could give it to someone like Mac and see what they can do. It's essentially just another way for the team to score when a play breaks down. Another way I like to look at it as it helps to keep a set working smoothly, for lack of better phrasing. What I mean by that is no matter when he has the ball, the defense has to focus on and stay with Mac. If he gets some room, if he's able to get open he can break down the defense and get himself a good look. This helps to open up looks for others, as guys have to focus on helping out on McClung if he gets past his guy. His ability to create could open up looks for others, even if he doesn't touch the ball. In a set, if Mac is given the ball, he also has the ability to take advantage of his defender based on how he is being guarded. On this team, Blair is sort of a threat to score of the dribble and Mac is. Everyone else is very inconsistent at creating a shot off of the dribble on their own. Having someone who can create shots in many different ways, just makes them significantly harder to defend and creates lanes for others. Mac's game is much suited for current NBA style than it is a college system that is still trying to run through the post. NBA is all about quick outlet on rebounds, quicker shots and isolation sets. I think he'll likely be here 4 years as well, but I think those that aren't following the NBA closely are going to be surprised by the NBA interest in him and IMO the minutes he gets once he is there (yes, I think he will be there).
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Post by hoya19809 on Feb 8, 2020 9:55:40 GMT -5
I hope he can make the NBA, but think it is a reach at this pt. Kid works harx and is a gym rat, so maybe in a few years.
Any update on his status for a must win game?
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Post by gulc1983 on Feb 8, 2020 9:55:50 GMT -5
I have been a season ticket holder for the last seven or eight years and have been to all but two of the home games this year, which I watched on tv. I am perplexed by the criticism Mac is getting on this Board. Mac and Mosely are the heart and soul of this team, and we cannot afford to be without either of them playing more than 30 minutes a game.
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Post by hoya19809 on Feb 8, 2020 10:20:17 GMT -5
I have been a season ticket holder for the last seven or eight years and have been to all but two of the home games this year, which I watched on tv. I am perplexed by the criticism Mac is getting on this Board. Mac and Mosely are the heart and soul of this team, and we cannot afford to be without either of them playing more than 30 minutes a game. Mac's got his issues, but all players do, but think we are better without him is nuts. Wish I could go today..
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Post by hoyasince83 on Feb 8, 2020 23:10:07 GMT -5
That doesn't mean much. Cole Anthony will likely be a top 5 or 10 pick in the draft. Have you watched him play? I would call Mac a poor mans version of him. Their style of play is identical. Cole is just more skilled and athletic. Still, the guy is terrible, and his shot selection is even worse than Mac's. Shoots 35% from the field. Scary to imagine if he had come here to see him, Mac and Akinjo in a game together. Good defense and team basketball on offense are the keys to winning basketball at the college level. That's what makes guys like Jagan and Allen so valuable, while guys like Mac and Cole are good for highlight reels but not wins. I can agree that Cole has under performed. Now, he has less than 0 help on that team, but he hasn't played up to the hype. And Cole Anthony, a top five to 10 pick as you said, is not terrible by any means. So that's another just insane thing to say. Also, do you just hate players that score the ball? Do you hate players that create their own shot? That's the only consistent I've noticed in you "assessment" of the game of basketball. Any scorer mentioned is someone you hate. And when someone, like Mac has accomplishments to back up their level of play you shrug them off, for no reason. It's insane. Did you watch the UNC Duke game today? Cole actually played within himself and played very well for the first 38 minutes. Not much forced shots and a much better job of getting his teammates involved. As a result they had a 9 point lead with 2 minutes left. Then Cole inexplicably dribbled down court and forced a terrible jumper with 24 seconds left on the shot clock and no one on his team touching the ball but him. Duke got the rebound, hit a quick three and eventually forced overtime. If Cole makes the smart play there and uses more clock, they don't have enough time to come back and UNC gets the win. But nature took over and he couldn't help himself, had to go one on one hero ball mode for no reason at all given they had a 9 point lead. He did the same thing in OT, played well for the first 3 minutes, then started pressing things during the last 2 and had 2 turnovers and 2 bad shots that resulted in misses. In the end, they of course lost the game. All because someone wanted to be the man at a time when it wasn't even necessary. These are the same stunts Mac pulls. The reason we were able to come back against St Johns and Depaul, despite slow starts and a large deficit is because the guys continued to play together and play good team basketball for the full 40 minutes. Games like that with Mac, as soon as we get in a big hole, he decides it's time for him to go hero ball which only digs the hole deeper. By the time the guys start playing team ball again, it's usually too little too late. Judging by the looks of the other thread, it seems people are coming around to the idea of gluing Mac to the end of the bench where he belongs.
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Post by FHillsNYHoya on Feb 8, 2020 23:31:37 GMT -5
Yeah. Let's glue an athletic dog on a team with 7 contributors to the bench. Fantastic idea.
Can we have a moment where one of our players isn't a whipping boy?
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Feb 9, 2020 0:01:23 GMT -5
hoyasince83 = hoyainla = relentless Mac bashing. Now on multiple threads. It’s just too much at this point.
Note: these are two different posters. Hoyasince83 has been on the board less than one month, hoyainla has been on the board since 2011. Each has a different inbound IP.--Admin
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